Cheap 2003 Boxster 2.7. Am I crazy?
Discussion
Firstly, I was not looking for a Boxster, but this one popped up and captured my attention.
It's a 2003 2.7 Tiptronic S with 91000 miles. Cat N. 16 service stamps (so there is a hole somewhere). MOT history looks OK with nothing major cropping up in the last few years and the mileage only increasing by a few hundred each time. Age related marks as expected.
What are the main things that I should be asking/looking at other than if the IMS bearing has been sorted?
Is it just worth a punt in the hope that it doesn't die in 5 minutes given that it is up for just over £3000?
I am not adverse to doing some DIY mechanics and have worked on a lot of my cars in the past, but never on a Porsche!!
Your real world advice will be greatly received.
ETA - I'm not looking to make money and I'm fully aware of what a Cat N means for values etc. I'm a mature (46) driver, so fully understand that no car is free to run, but wondered if this could provide a bit of fun for a year or so without crippling me for a new engine or box.
Would it have any value as a breaker if it all went pear shaped?
It's a 2003 2.7 Tiptronic S with 91000 miles. Cat N. 16 service stamps (so there is a hole somewhere). MOT history looks OK with nothing major cropping up in the last few years and the mileage only increasing by a few hundred each time. Age related marks as expected.
What are the main things that I should be asking/looking at other than if the IMS bearing has been sorted?
Is it just worth a punt in the hope that it doesn't die in 5 minutes given that it is up for just over £3000?
I am not adverse to doing some DIY mechanics and have worked on a lot of my cars in the past, but never on a Porsche!!
Your real world advice will be greatly received.
ETA - I'm not looking to make money and I'm fully aware of what a Cat N means for values etc. I'm a mature (46) driver, so fully understand that no car is free to run, but wondered if this could provide a bit of fun for a year or so without crippling me for a new engine or box.
Would it have any value as a breaker if it all went pear shaped?
Edited by Japcreation on Wednesday 22 September 10:14
Some random thoughts off the top of my head:
1) DIY servicing, you’ll need a piece of kit to reset the service indicator. Costs about £200. Can’t remember the name. Repairs and maintenance are nothing special.
2) Cooling system, radiators are prone to corrosion long before the age of this, make sure they have been regularly cleaned or expect to replace.
3) More cooling, radiator pipes and crossover pipes leak, costs ~£300 in parts and £300 in labour to drop the subframe.
4) Gearcables, prone to snapping, this might be specific to the 6 speed, you’d think that’s cheap enough. No! The cables are only Porsche and cost £400
5) IMS. Oddly this would not bother me, if it has done 91k it is likely to have been done or absolutely fine. They normally die before then
1) DIY servicing, you’ll need a piece of kit to reset the service indicator. Costs about £200. Can’t remember the name. Repairs and maintenance are nothing special.
2) Cooling system, radiators are prone to corrosion long before the age of this, make sure they have been regularly cleaned or expect to replace.
3) More cooling, radiator pipes and crossover pipes leak, costs ~£300 in parts and £300 in labour to drop the subframe.
4) Gearcables, prone to snapping, this might be specific to the 6 speed, you’d think that’s cheap enough. No! The cables are only Porsche and cost £400
5) IMS. Oddly this would not bother me, if it has done 91k it is likely to have been done or absolutely fine. They normally die before then
I've owned a 2001 3.2S manual as my only car for the past 2 years now. Other than its MOT, it's never seen the inside of a professional garage. Paid £5,100 for it with 100k miles, and it's been almost faultless.
It's a well made and (nuts & bolts corroding aside) easy to work on car.
I'm not a mechanic, I work in banking, but have done all my own servicing and minor jobs on the car (did a droplink last weekend - nothing went wrong
).
It's been designed with hard(er) usage in mind, so mileage and enthusiastic driving would not scare me provided the car had been suitably maintained. Have a dig through the service history - try and find out more beyond a stamp in a book (any paperwork to look through, breaking down what work was done? Try ringing the places the car has been serviced, see if they can provide you with any more info). If all else fails, consider the car itself ... 4 matched branded tyres indicate it's been cared for. 4 mismatched ditchfinders indicate corners might have been cut (and if they've been cut there, where else that you can't easily see might they have also been cut?).
In the case of the car you're looking at, I'd consider the Cat N status to be the first thing to try and find out more about. When was it declared Cat N? If it was at 1 year old, then you're looking at some pretty serious damage (cost wise) to write off a nearly new Porsche. If it was at 15 years old, then a small parking prang could write it off. Everyone tries to claim a Cat N was very light non-structural damage ... but try and find evidence to confirm exactly what happened and how it was repaired.
I'd also personally not touch a tiptronic with a barge pole - but that's very much about my personal preferences for cars, and not because there's anything fundamentally wrong with them.
So there's every chance your £3k Cat N, 91k miler could be bulletproof and serve you well. But it could also be a complete dog. Only a careful look over the car and its history will give you the best chance of telling 1 from the other!
Good luck.
P.S. You're not crazy!
It's a well made and (nuts & bolts corroding aside) easy to work on car.
I'm not a mechanic, I work in banking, but have done all my own servicing and minor jobs on the car (did a droplink last weekend - nothing went wrong
).It's been designed with hard(er) usage in mind, so mileage and enthusiastic driving would not scare me provided the car had been suitably maintained. Have a dig through the service history - try and find out more beyond a stamp in a book (any paperwork to look through, breaking down what work was done? Try ringing the places the car has been serviced, see if they can provide you with any more info). If all else fails, consider the car itself ... 4 matched branded tyres indicate it's been cared for. 4 mismatched ditchfinders indicate corners might have been cut (and if they've been cut there, where else that you can't easily see might they have also been cut?).
In the case of the car you're looking at, I'd consider the Cat N status to be the first thing to try and find out more about. When was it declared Cat N? If it was at 1 year old, then you're looking at some pretty serious damage (cost wise) to write off a nearly new Porsche. If it was at 15 years old, then a small parking prang could write it off. Everyone tries to claim a Cat N was very light non-structural damage ... but try and find evidence to confirm exactly what happened and how it was repaired.
I'd also personally not touch a tiptronic with a barge pole - but that's very much about my personal preferences for cars, and not because there's anything fundamentally wrong with them.
So there's every chance your £3k Cat N, 91k miler could be bulletproof and serve you well. But it could also be a complete dog. Only a careful look over the car and its history will give you the best chance of telling 1 from the other!
Good luck.
P.S. You're not crazy!
Thanks for the replies so far, much appreciated.
I've messaged the guy and he has responded fairly honestly from what I can tell.
Radiators and IMS - He doesn't know if they have been done
Car was written off in 2019 and had the driver's door replaced by the garage that he bought it from. There is still some evidence of damage on the rear 1/4 panel, but nothing too significant.
He had a basic service carried out when he bought it, but nothing to back it up.
Freely admits that the cosmetics let the car down a bit, but what do you expect for £3000?
I'm thinking that I might just go and have a look at it and see how good/bad it is in the flesh!
I've messaged the guy and he has responded fairly honestly from what I can tell.
Radiators and IMS - He doesn't know if they have been done
Car was written off in 2019 and had the driver's door replaced by the garage that he bought it from. There is still some evidence of damage on the rear 1/4 panel, but nothing too significant.
He had a basic service carried out when he bought it, but nothing to back it up.
Freely admits that the cosmetics let the car down a bit, but what do you expect for £3000?
I'm thinking that I might just go and have a look at it and see how good/bad it is in the flesh!
Japcreation said:
I've messaged ... has responded fairly honestly from what I can tell.
...written off in 2019 ... is still some evidence of damage on the rear ... nothing too significant.
Freely admits that the cosmetics let ... down a bit, but what do you expect ...?
I'm thinking that I might just go and have a look at it and see how good/bad it is in the flesh!
sounds like my last tinder episode. ...written off in 2019 ... is still some evidence of damage on the rear ... nothing too significant.
Freely admits that the cosmetics let ... down a bit, but what do you expect ...?
I'm thinking that I might just go and have a look at it and see how good/bad it is in the flesh!
Not exactly a rare model so would personally hold out for a car that doesn’t have Cat history - will be a lot easier to sell if you ever want to. The seller says it doesn’t need much bodywork, but why has it not been done when the rest of the repairs were done? Sounds fishy to me.
Look for something that has had decent maintenance history and buy on condition more than miles.
Perhaps wait a few weeks and we ‘might’ see soft top prices soften slightly due to winter weather
Look for something that has had decent maintenance history and buy on condition more than miles.
Perhaps wait a few weeks and we ‘might’ see soft top prices soften slightly due to winter weather
I found another one!!
It's a 2002 2.7 manual with just under 60000 miles.
Seemed to good to be true, so I gently pursued it with lots of questions.
The service history has been "misplaced" since the guy moved business premises, but will of course turn up!!
The seller side stepped all of my questions and just kept saying about how well the previous owner looked after the car and that it was lovely. Wouldn't tell me how long he had owned the car for or what he had done to it in his ownership.
I got it checked and it turns out to be another cat N!! I asked the guy straight up in my first communication if it was a write off at any time, but strangely he didn't answer that one!. I called him out on it yesterday and ,strangely, I've had no reply.
The hunt continues.
It's a 2002 2.7 manual with just under 60000 miles.
Seemed to good to be true, so I gently pursued it with lots of questions.
The service history has been "misplaced" since the guy moved business premises, but will of course turn up!!
The seller side stepped all of my questions and just kept saying about how well the previous owner looked after the car and that it was lovely. Wouldn't tell me how long he had owned the car for or what he had done to it in his ownership.
I got it checked and it turns out to be another cat N!! I asked the guy straight up in my first communication if it was a write off at any time, but strangely he didn't answer that one!. I called him out on it yesterday and ,strangely, I've had no reply.
The hunt continues.
I got a response last night......
"I have spoken with last owner and enquired about what on earth a cat n is and all that..the porsche is in such great shape it didn't come up. evidently it was a door that had a scrape and being unreplacable they put a cat n on her..
It was no biggy for me at the time, I didn't know, and the repair must have been first class as I didn't even notice. I'm not to worried about it now really, as its a lovely car ...
I think the best thing I can do is explain this to all the other people messaging.. .
I would appreciate your thoughts on that.
I've ordered a new fob and a door switch.
If I get time to organise fitting then I will, or give to new owner...
Whichever comes up."
So did they know or did they not?
For the right price, I'd still consider it. If all else fails it would go on the track and then end it's life as a parts car!
"I have spoken with last owner and enquired about what on earth a cat n is and all that..the porsche is in such great shape it didn't come up. evidently it was a door that had a scrape and being unreplacable they put a cat n on her..
It was no biggy for me at the time, I didn't know, and the repair must have been first class as I didn't even notice. I'm not to worried about it now really, as its a lovely car ...
I think the best thing I can do is explain this to all the other people messaging.. .
I would appreciate your thoughts on that.
I've ordered a new fob and a door switch.
If I get time to organise fitting then I will, or give to new owner...
Whichever comes up."
So did they know or did they not?
For the right price, I'd still consider it. If all else fails it would go on the track and then end it's life as a parts car!
The search has continued and I am now going to have a look at a 2003 3.2s with 105k miles on at the weekend. Flawless MOT history, need to check the service history when I'm there, new clutch and gearbox rebuild around the 70k mark.
I had decided a while back that I would need to up my budget to get something that should hopefully stop me worrying if it is going to lunch itself every time I turn the key!!
Fingers crossed that this is what I've been looking for.
The only problem that I forsee with ownership is that I'm 6'2" and they don't have a tilting steering wheel (I have sat in one), but I have done plenty of research and seen that there are people bigger than me that drive them with no issues.
I had decided a while back that I would need to up my budget to get something that should hopefully stop me worrying if it is going to lunch itself every time I turn the key!!
Fingers crossed that this is what I've been looking for.
The only problem that I forsee with ownership is that I'm 6'2" and they don't have a tilting steering wheel (I have sat in one), but I have done plenty of research and seen that there are people bigger than me that drive them with no issues.
As the owner of a 2001 3.2S on about 107k miles, all I can say is 'nice'.
My car had a flawless MOT history, but very little service history beyond stamps in a service book. Nothing to say that any of the "problem" engine issues had been addressed.
I took the view that if it was going to lunch it's engine, it'd likely have done it by now. It's my only car, but since Covid that's become less of an issue as work has been a lot more flexible about being in the office vs working from home. However, when I bought it, I was commuting to work 5 days a week.
Mechanically it's not put a foot wrong in 2 1/2 years ... and I can't think what I'd replace it with that would be "better" (to me) at similar-ish kind of money.
I paid £5,100 for it with bang on 100k miles.
I hope your search does you well.
I'd say that options make a huge difference on these. I was specifically looking for the smaller (17") wheels, litronic headlights and heated seats on mine, as I was intending to use it all year round. I'm not sure if I'd have felt it was as good a commuting car if I was going down an unlit back round at 6pm in December, trying to make out the road ahead through the gloom of the standard lights, freezing my ar$e off on the cold leather seats, while crashing and thumping over the poorly maintained tarmac. Plan your options to your use case.
My car had a flawless MOT history, but very little service history beyond stamps in a service book. Nothing to say that any of the "problem" engine issues had been addressed.
I took the view that if it was going to lunch it's engine, it'd likely have done it by now. It's my only car, but since Covid that's become less of an issue as work has been a lot more flexible about being in the office vs working from home. However, when I bought it, I was commuting to work 5 days a week.
Mechanically it's not put a foot wrong in 2 1/2 years ... and I can't think what I'd replace it with that would be "better" (to me) at similar-ish kind of money.
I paid £5,100 for it with bang on 100k miles.
I hope your search does you well.
I'd say that options make a huge difference on these. I was specifically looking for the smaller (17") wheels, litronic headlights and heated seats on mine, as I was intending to use it all year round. I'm not sure if I'd have felt it was as good a commuting car if I was going down an unlit back round at 6pm in December, trying to make out the road ahead through the gloom of the standard lights, freezing my ar$e off on the cold leather seats, while crashing and thumping over the poorly maintained tarmac.
Plan your options to your use case.Japcreation said:
The only problem that I forsee with ownership is that I'm 6'2" and they don't have a tilting steering wheel (I have sat in one), but I have done plenty of research and seen that there are people bigger than me that drive them with no issues.
SnapAlso 6' 2" but it is not the wheel height adjustment which is the problem. It is the seat itself and general legroom.
I think both standard and sports seats for this generation of Boxster are rubbish. Gave me back pain driving it longer than around 30 minutes.
Legroom so distance from lower back to pedals. I also have a 996 which is supposed to be the same car but you can see from my measurements that is not the case. The seat mount is actually 1cm closer on the Boxster than the 996. Then you can see the seat has slid back on the runner an extra 2cm too. So that is a 3cm difference overall. Trust me your wife will notice that.
I still love the 986 so for now I have fitted 9x7 seats to mine. These bolt straight in. These sit you a little bit further back and a reasonable amount lower also. The car is now comfy and fine.
Japcreation said:
The search has continued and I am now going to have a look at a 2003 3.2s with 105k miles on at the weekend. Flawless MOT history, need to check the service history when I'm there, new clutch and gearbox rebuild around the 70k mark.
I had decided a while back that I would need to up my budget to get something that should hopefully stop me worrying if it is going to lunch itself every time I turn the key!!
Fingers crossed that this is what I've been looking for.
The only problem that I forsee with ownership is that I'm 6'2" and they don't have a tilting steering wheel (I have sat in one), but I have done plenty of research and seen that there are people bigger than me that drive them with no issues.
I think very much down to your build and comfort requirements. I'm 6'4 and it was a bit of a squeeze. 987 is much better - a bit more room and adjustable steering. 911 seats go back further as someone mentioned also.I had decided a while back that I would need to up my budget to get something that should hopefully stop me worrying if it is going to lunch itself every time I turn the key!!
Fingers crossed that this is what I've been looking for.
The only problem that I forsee with ownership is that I'm 6'2" and they don't have a tilting steering wheel (I have sat in one), but I have done plenty of research and seen that there are people bigger than me that drive them with no issues.
But at 6'2 I think you'll find it ok. I had mine for 3 years and enjoyed it lots! Good luck with your search.
I'm still looking.
Did a 300 mile round trip to view a 2000 3.2 manual on Monday that looked reasonable (apart from aftermarket lights). Got there to be told that the roof won't open, did yesterday, but we're trying to sort it!! A little rougher around the edges than I would have liked, but I know that I'm not going to get a showroom finish on my budget. I walked away from it in the end as it just didn't sit right with me. There were conflicting stories about how long it had been on/off the road, issues with finding the registration on a few sites for HPI checks etc. and the guy dropped the price by a further £500 for the roof issue without really thinking about it. Screamed of wanting to get rid!!
Tempted to go and see a facelift 2.7 at the weekend, but budget creep is setting in. Is there much noticeable performance difference in the real world between the 2.7 and 3.2?
On the plus side, I now know for sure that I fit in one with the seat dropped and right back.
Did a 300 mile round trip to view a 2000 3.2 manual on Monday that looked reasonable (apart from aftermarket lights). Got there to be told that the roof won't open, did yesterday, but we're trying to sort it!! A little rougher around the edges than I would have liked, but I know that I'm not going to get a showroom finish on my budget. I walked away from it in the end as it just didn't sit right with me. There were conflicting stories about how long it had been on/off the road, issues with finding the registration on a few sites for HPI checks etc. and the guy dropped the price by a further £500 for the roof issue without really thinking about it. Screamed of wanting to get rid!!
Tempted to go and see a facelift 2.7 at the weekend, but budget creep is setting in. Is there much noticeable performance difference in the real world between the 2.7 and 3.2?
On the plus side, I now know for sure that I fit in one with the seat dropped and right back.
Japcreation said:
Is there much noticeable performance difference in the real world between the 2.7 and 3.2?
HmmI am a sucker for always buying the S or the faster version. But in the real world....
I took my car for a bit of a blast up in the hills with this guy. I didnt know him. From a different enthusiast website for Boxsters. His car is a 2.5 Tip which must be the slowest of all the 986. I had trouble keeping up with him.
So if your real world means traffic light gran prix then yes the 3.2 will get its nose ahead of a 2.7.
If your real world means flying round some country lanes with corners then both cars are as fast as your skill set and balls allow.
Japcreation said:
I'm still looking.
Did a 300 mile round trip to view a 2000 3.2 manual on Monday that looked reasonable (apart from aftermarket lights). Got there to be told that the roof won't open, did yesterday, but we're trying to sort it!! A little rougher around the edges than I would have liked, but I know that I'm not going to get a showroom finish on my budget. I walked away from it in the end as it just didn't sit right with me. There were conflicting stories about how long it had been on/off the road, issues with finding the registration on a few sites for HPI checks etc. and the guy dropped the price by a further £500 for the roof issue without really thinking about it. Screamed of wanting to get rid!!
Tempted to go and see a facelift 2.7 at the weekend, but budget creep is setting in. Is there much noticeable performance difference in the real world between the 2.7 and 3.2?
On the plus side, I now know for sure that I fit in one with the seat dropped and right back.
What’s your budget, I might consider selling my 99 2.5 manual. Good condition, fully serviced last year (fuel filter, plugs, coil packs, air filters, oil filter and oil change, plus a pair of new rear tyres. Zenith blue with black. No air con car so no condensers or pipes to worry about. Only thing it needs is a fix to horn push, which is common and on my list for Spring. Earlier cars supposedly have a better engine bearing.Did a 300 mile round trip to view a 2000 3.2 manual on Monday that looked reasonable (apart from aftermarket lights). Got there to be told that the roof won't open, did yesterday, but we're trying to sort it!! A little rougher around the edges than I would have liked, but I know that I'm not going to get a showroom finish on my budget. I walked away from it in the end as it just didn't sit right with me. There were conflicting stories about how long it had been on/off the road, issues with finding the registration on a few sites for HPI checks etc. and the guy dropped the price by a further £500 for the roof issue without really thinking about it. Screamed of wanting to get rid!!
Tempted to go and see a facelift 2.7 at the weekend, but budget creep is setting in. Is there much noticeable performance difference in the real world between the 2.7 and 3.2?
On the plus side, I now know for sure that I fit in one with the seat dropped and right back.
This sounds nice but not cheap
Hartech engine rebuild
5000 spent this year
£7,995
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12008284
Hartech engine rebuild
5000 spent this year
£7,995
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12008284
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