718 GT4 on the Ring (Warning... Shmee content)
Discussion
Shmee has taken his GT4 out to the Nurburgring for the first time and posted 2x in-car laps (3x camera views).
If you can bear listening to him, then it's interesting to see how the car behaves in the hands of a non-racing driver. It also made me question if I want/need PDK on my order spec, the shifts look sublime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrtWXp57h6Y
If you can bear listening to him, then it's interesting to see how the car behaves in the hands of a non-racing driver. It also made me question if I want/need PDK on my order spec, the shifts look sublime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrtWXp57h6Y
I can't watch Schmee, but on the subject of PDK I recently passengered some laps on track in a friend's PDK GT4. I have a 718 GT4 in manual which I've taken on track. I'm probably going to state the obvious here, but here goes anyway...
For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. The car is more settled, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. However...
I felt that the car had lost a lot of its character. It seemed too easy, less raw feeeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends. My manual was much harder work to get right consistently but when you did it felt oh so good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car.
My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm more than happy with my manual as it's incredibly satisfying to use both on and off track.
YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc.
For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. The car is more settled, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. However...
I felt that the car had lost a lot of its character. It seemed too easy, less raw feeeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends. My manual was much harder work to get right consistently but when you did it felt oh so good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car.
My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm more than happy with my manual as it's incredibly satisfying to use both on and off track.
YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc.
Twinfan said:
I can't watch Schmee, but on the subject of PDK I recently passengered some laps on track in a friend's PDK GT4. I have a 718 GT4 in manual which I've taken on track. I'm probably going to state the obvious here, but here goes anyway...
For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. The car is more settled, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. However...
I felt that the car had lost a lot of its character. It seemed too easy, less raw feeeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends. My manual was much harder work to get right consistently but when you did it felt oh so good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car.
My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm more than happy with my manual as it's incredibly satisfying to use both on and off track.
YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc.
Wow For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. The car is more settled, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. However...
I felt that the car had lost a lot of its character. It seemed too easy, less raw feeeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends. My manual was much harder work to get right consistently but when you did it felt oh so good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car.
My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm more than happy with my manual as it's incredibly satisfying to use both on and off track.
YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc.
I guess that may have come across that driving gods choose manuals eh? Whoops! 
Not what I was trying to say at all. It was supposed to be an observation that the PDK car feels quite different to a manual and I feel people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car
Not what I was trying to say at all. It was supposed to be an observation that the PDK car feels quite different to a manual and I feel people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car
Twinfan said:
I guess that may have come across that driving gods choose manuals eh? Whoops!
Not what I was trying to say at all. It was supposed to be an observation that the PDK car feels quite different to a manual and I feel people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car
ForgivenNot what I was trying to say at all. It was supposed to be an observation that the PDK car feels quite different to a manual and I feel people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car
I was at the Destination Nurburgring track day and then Scuderia S7 event on the days before he went - the weekend looked mental in terms of traffic, but the weather was glorious on those last few days
I'm not a pro driver but have been doing the ring for around 15 years so know where it goes. The car is about 6 weeks old and was just run in before being driven over - first track day in the car so i'm sure there's more to come, but I'm more about confidence and safety margin than the lowest possible lap time
Excuse the balls-up with the overlays - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErEVpXhbGxg&ab is a 7.32 (PDK)
It's totally standard. My takeaways were:
- camber needs sorting on the front. My tyres are worn in an 'interesting' way, and have more wear on the outside
- lack of aero at a few places makes some points "interesting". I had a few wobbles at the top of the three left handers after bergwerk, and sprunghogel needs respect. The bump after tiergarten on a 'flying lap' is also... interesting
- harder suspension setting was better
Potentially looking at the MR kit next year but will see how it goes
I'm not a pro driver but have been doing the ring for around 15 years so know where it goes. The car is about 6 weeks old and was just run in before being driven over - first track day in the car so i'm sure there's more to come, but I'm more about confidence and safety margin than the lowest possible lap time
Excuse the balls-up with the overlays - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErEVpXhbGxg&ab is a 7.32 (PDK)
It's totally standard. My takeaways were:
- camber needs sorting on the front. My tyres are worn in an 'interesting' way, and have more wear on the outside
- lack of aero at a few places makes some points "interesting". I had a few wobbles at the top of the three left handers after bergwerk, and sprunghogel needs respect. The bump after tiergarten on a 'flying lap' is also... interesting
- harder suspension setting was better
Potentially looking at the MR kit next year but will see how it goes
Twinfan said:
It seemed too easy
This is the only point I'd probably want to 'correct'. It's easier (obviously) to have two hands on the wheel when changing gear if all other factors are a constant... ...but you should be going faster, and braking later as a result, and thus it suddenly becomes 'less easy' because everything is happening a lot more quickly
Using the 'ring as an example, if you're happy with (for argument's sake) a 7.50 lap experience, then I would agree the PDK is a waste of time as it's easily achievable with a manual. But if you want to go faster, then things happen more quickly, and the excitement factor of the speed makes it more of an 'experience'... you then start to approach the limit of what you can do (aside from all the driving gods among us, of course)
Personally, I don't think I could, or would enjoy, doing the lap above with a manual box. I'd quite like to get to the low 7.20s and do so as safely as possible, and I know there's definitely no way I'd be doing that with a manual, hence why I went PDK
I have a highly modified and unreliable piece of french clutter with a short shifter for the 'driving experience' ;-)
Twinfan said:
It's not s
te if you think it does. I certainly do. The drivetrain is everything to me and how I perceive a car's character. Same as turbo vs NASP - it's different isn't it?
Tell me what's different. then because it's a manual. You push the clutch in and change gear, that's it. How does that change the character?you mentioned hitting a series of bends, you wouldn't change gear going around them.te if you think it does. I certainly do. The drivetrain is everything to me and how I perceive a car's character. Same as turbo vs NASP - it's different isn't it?How does the manual or pdk box change the drivetrain when they are both the same ?
You should be happy that you like the manual and accept others like the pdk and keep the bull to yourself.
Melvynr said:
Tell me what's different. then because it's a manual. You push the clutch in and change gear, that's it. How does that change the character?you mentioned hitting a series of bends, you wouldn't change gear going around them.
How does the manual or pdk box change the drivetrain when they are both the same ?
You should be happy that you like the manual and accept others like the pdk and keep the bull to yourself.
I meant powertrain not drivetrain, of course. An error on my part. You clearly like PDK, which is great, but to claim it's no different to driving a manual car is bull to me.How does the manual or pdk box change the drivetrain when they are both the same ?
You should be happy that you like the manual and accept others like the pdk and keep the bull to yourself.
Anyhoo, have a nice evening in your ivory tower.
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