987 2.7 to 718 2.0 Anyone had both?
Discussion
Morning all. Popped into Porsche Chester on a rainy Saturday just for a mooch and have got completely smitten with a basic 718 but speced just how I would want it if buying new. It's just in and not been prepped for sale, so I have seen it before being tarted up and it's absolutely mint and well cared for. Also looking on the approved used site today it is very competitively priced for its spec compared to similar.
I picked up a base 2007 Cayman two years ago and got into the trap of spending far too much on it but wanted to do the majority of work myself which I have. It has now seen a £4k respray to correct peeling lacquer from a completely **** respray (should have walked away from the car at this point but didn't take a 'voice of reason' with me) which was the unplanned spend but I have done the usual suspension parts that have worn, stripped and repainted the dampers and replaced topmouts, bumpstops etc and done some cosmetic work, Body colour centre console and refurbed callipers painted black, braded hoses and all new discs and pads!! This car owe me £20k excluding the paint job.................
I was about to have the interior re-trimmed in napa leather and cloth to finish the project when I saw the 718.
The 987 now drives like new (apart from a couple of interior rattles i'm still hunting) has a Dansk back box and sport cats exhaust on (previous owned) so also sounds great being wrung out. :-) but is still a 78k mile car.
The 718 has the sports exhaust and sounded OK when being reved from cold with the valves open, would have 2 years warranty, would not have been buggered around with by crap mechanics prior to my ownership but would cost a LOT to change.
Anyone gone from the basic flat 6 to the basic turbo 4 and enjoyed/regretted it?
Keeping the 987 with the massive bork pot would seem sensible but at what point do you stop spending on an older car to make it 'perfect for you' and just buy newer?
My Cayman
718 Ad
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/718-Cayman-380...
I picked up a base 2007 Cayman two years ago and got into the trap of spending far too much on it but wanted to do the majority of work myself which I have. It has now seen a £4k respray to correct peeling lacquer from a completely **** respray (should have walked away from the car at this point but didn't take a 'voice of reason' with me) which was the unplanned spend but I have done the usual suspension parts that have worn, stripped and repainted the dampers and replaced topmouts, bumpstops etc and done some cosmetic work, Body colour centre console and refurbed callipers painted black, braded hoses and all new discs and pads!! This car owe me £20k excluding the paint job.................
I was about to have the interior re-trimmed in napa leather and cloth to finish the project when I saw the 718.
The 987 now drives like new (apart from a couple of interior rattles i'm still hunting) has a Dansk back box and sport cats exhaust on (previous owned) so also sounds great being wrung out. :-) but is still a 78k mile car.
The 718 has the sports exhaust and sounded OK when being reved from cold with the valves open, would have 2 years warranty, would not have been buggered around with by crap mechanics prior to my ownership but would cost a LOT to change.
Anyone gone from the basic flat 6 to the basic turbo 4 and enjoyed/regretted it?
Keeping the 987 with the massive bork pot would seem sensible but at what point do you stop spending on an older car to make it 'perfect for you' and just buy newer?
My Cayman
718 Ad
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/718-Cayman-380...
Edited by 53x11 on Monday 23 August 11:21
You've just spent a small fortune to get youe Cayman as you want it.
Your Cayman will aslo have done it's depreciation and should hold steady or climb slightly as it becomes a classic with more analogue feel.
The newer 718 2.0 will cost you a lot more and is then likely to depreciate more heavily especially as it is a base spec car with a 2.0 motor.
I'd stick with your current 987.
Your Cayman will aslo have done it's depreciation and should hold steady or climb slightly as it becomes a classic with more analogue feel.
The newer 718 2.0 will cost you a lot more and is then likely to depreciate more heavily especially as it is a base spec car with a 2.0 motor.
I'd stick with your current 987.
I had a 987 Boxster 2.7 manual for 8 years and more recently had a 718 2.0 PDK for 18 months so feel somewhat qualified to give you an opinion.
987 Plus Points
The noise out the back especially with PSE switched on and the vacuum pipes disconnected
Steering feel and balance, mine was on 18" alloys
Cost of ownership especially tyres, insurance and road tax
For the money it couldn't be beaten which is why I kept it 8 years when the longest I'd kept any of my other cars was 2.
987 Minus Points
Towards the end of my ownership I couldn't drive it for more than 3-4 hours at a stretch as my back would start aching. It had standard seats and those combined with what felt like less compliant suspension and my increasing age made it less and less attractive as a touring car. This was a shame because we'd driven it all over Europe in the 8 years we had it and enjoyed that immensely.
PCM was awful, I couldn't get my head around having a separate SIM to use the phone.
The headlights were useless, we had standard halogens.
Ours was Balsalt Black which was glorious when it had just been washed and waxed but that never lasted long
As time went by it also started to just feel old, this probably wasn't helped when we bought a 981 Cayman 2 years before the 987 was sold.
718 Plus points
The overall quality feels better especially around the electronic systems and dash layout
PCM is a world away from the 987 and having the ability to have Waze on it is a major plus for me even though that overall it's still not as good as some other manufacturers
The suspension is very supple, we drove down to La Rochelle last summer and I never had any aches or pains, the car had standard seats and suspension and 20" alloys.
The engine is a peach if you like low down torque and fairly instant acceleration. Oh and the noise out the back is fine, it sounds very growly on full song and I quite liked it. And yes there is a hint of Subaru and Beetle about it but its a flat 4 so that's not a surprise. It just doesn't sound as good as a flat 6.
I think the front and rear boots are a little bigger as well but not by much
718 Negative Points
The noise out the back (as mentioned above) it not a flat six and some people can't live with that
There was always a slight lag on initial acceleration which sometimes made you hesitate when pulling out of a junction. I was never sure if this was due to it being turbocharged or the PDK box
Running costs are much higher especially Road Tax (if it falls under the new rules) and servicing seems to have gone up a lot but I'm not sure how that compares to the current costs of a 987
Mine was Gentian Blue which looked spectacular in bright sunshine but showed every scratch and chip which played havoc with my OCD
Some people say the steering is not as good on the 718 from a 987 but I'm not a good enough driver to really notice any significant difference
Conclusion
Putting aside any other concerns I would choose the 718 without hesitation as I think its a much more complete package and has moved the Boxster/Cayman further up the road in terms of overall driving enjoyment, comfort, technology and practicality. The only fly in the ointment is that current values are nuts. I sold mine in May for almost what I paid for it in December 2019 so now might not be the best time to buy unless the 987 has increased as well. If you do buy and you can live with that you won't be disappointed except maybe missing the noise from time to time.
987 Plus Points
The noise out the back especially with PSE switched on and the vacuum pipes disconnected
Steering feel and balance, mine was on 18" alloys
Cost of ownership especially tyres, insurance and road tax
For the money it couldn't be beaten which is why I kept it 8 years when the longest I'd kept any of my other cars was 2.
987 Minus Points
Towards the end of my ownership I couldn't drive it for more than 3-4 hours at a stretch as my back would start aching. It had standard seats and those combined with what felt like less compliant suspension and my increasing age made it less and less attractive as a touring car. This was a shame because we'd driven it all over Europe in the 8 years we had it and enjoyed that immensely.
PCM was awful, I couldn't get my head around having a separate SIM to use the phone.
The headlights were useless, we had standard halogens.
Ours was Balsalt Black which was glorious when it had just been washed and waxed but that never lasted long
As time went by it also started to just feel old, this probably wasn't helped when we bought a 981 Cayman 2 years before the 987 was sold.
718 Plus points
The overall quality feels better especially around the electronic systems and dash layout
PCM is a world away from the 987 and having the ability to have Waze on it is a major plus for me even though that overall it's still not as good as some other manufacturers
The suspension is very supple, we drove down to La Rochelle last summer and I never had any aches or pains, the car had standard seats and suspension and 20" alloys.
The engine is a peach if you like low down torque and fairly instant acceleration. Oh and the noise out the back is fine, it sounds very growly on full song and I quite liked it. And yes there is a hint of Subaru and Beetle about it but its a flat 4 so that's not a surprise. It just doesn't sound as good as a flat 6.
I think the front and rear boots are a little bigger as well but not by much
718 Negative Points
The noise out the back (as mentioned above) it not a flat six and some people can't live with that
There was always a slight lag on initial acceleration which sometimes made you hesitate when pulling out of a junction. I was never sure if this was due to it being turbocharged or the PDK box
Running costs are much higher especially Road Tax (if it falls under the new rules) and servicing seems to have gone up a lot but I'm not sure how that compares to the current costs of a 987
Mine was Gentian Blue which looked spectacular in bright sunshine but showed every scratch and chip which played havoc with my OCD
Some people say the steering is not as good on the 718 from a 987 but I'm not a good enough driver to really notice any significant difference
Conclusion
Putting aside any other concerns I would choose the 718 without hesitation as I think its a much more complete package and has moved the Boxster/Cayman further up the road in terms of overall driving enjoyment, comfort, technology and practicality. The only fly in the ointment is that current values are nuts. I sold mine in May for almost what I paid for it in December 2019 so now might not be the best time to buy unless the 987 has increased as well. If you do buy and you can live with that you won't be disappointed except maybe missing the noise from time to time.
^ good post. Would agree, definitely go for it without hesitation, the 718 is a great car and is actually a great engine also. The cars have moved on and improved considerably over the years. Values are strong in the current market, but should remain so into the future as here are simply not that many cars around so probably best to move quickly.
The steering was an early EPAS version on the 981 but they fixed it in the 718s presumably with a later version and the better rack. As above there's not much in it now but there was when compared to the earlier version in the 981.
It became a bit fashionable to bash the 2.0 when the 718 initially came out but the criticism is more of an internet myth really, a shame for anyone who believes the nonsense who would miss out on a cracking car.
Good luck.
The steering was an early EPAS version on the 981 but they fixed it in the 718s presumably with a later version and the better rack. As above there's not much in it now but there was when compared to the earlier version in the 981.
It became a bit fashionable to bash the 2.0 when the 718 initially came out but the criticism is more of an internet myth really, a shame for anyone who believes the nonsense who would miss out on a cracking car.
Good luck.
Lexington59 said:
It became a bit fashionable to bash the 2.0 when the 718 initially came out but the criticism is more of an internet myth really, a shame for anyone who believes the nonsense who would miss out on a cracking car.
This is said a lot by the 718 fans, but like it or not the F4T is quite a marmite engine. I preferred the 2.0 to the 2.5 in the cars that I've driven, but they're very different to a NA F6. It's not a myth nor is it nonsense to not like the F4T, you really do have to try one yourself and see if you like them.OP - see if you can get a test drive in the 718 then can properly make your own mind up
Thanks for all the comments guys, just what I was hoping for and the 50/50 split what I was expecting 
Just to address a few points:-
I've fitted a bluetooth adaptor that replaces the CD multichanger and it is a fantastic bit of kit. I can keep the OEM CD/Radio (don't have the god awful PCM unit) and run satnav and music from my phone powered in the centre cubby or arm rest cubby so not having the latest 'tech' is not essential.
Car is a rare spec being a 2.7 with the 'Sport Pack' of PASM, Sport Chrono and 6 speed box (£575 tax due to 1g over
) Runs great with PASM off and Sport on. Went for a 2.7 as wanted to avoid bore score if possible....
The Chester car has full two tone leather with contrast stitch. I know the 987 was purchased as a car for driving it make the interior look very dated and low rent and i'd have to spend quite a bit to have the seats re-done and leather touch points (door handles, cubby lids, had brake and new gear gaiter).
I think I do need the test drive to decide. Don't like messing sales people about and being a test driver but in this case I think its a valid request to have a drive to see how it makes me feel.
Re depreciation. Good points
The 718 could loose £10k over the next two years. I could put another £ 3k into the 987 and make the interior better and have a unique but not chaved up 987 that I think would hold good value so probably the same 'cash' lost in that period.
Anyone care to comment on the mid range shove from the turbo? My driving pals are in a 997 C4S with X51 upgrades and a 991.2 C4S and kick sand in my windscreen coming out of low speed bends
Just to address a few points:-
I've fitted a bluetooth adaptor that replaces the CD multichanger and it is a fantastic bit of kit. I can keep the OEM CD/Radio (don't have the god awful PCM unit) and run satnav and music from my phone powered in the centre cubby or arm rest cubby so not having the latest 'tech' is not essential.
Car is a rare spec being a 2.7 with the 'Sport Pack' of PASM, Sport Chrono and 6 speed box (£575 tax due to 1g over
) Runs great with PASM off and Sport on. Went for a 2.7 as wanted to avoid bore score if possible....The Chester car has full two tone leather with contrast stitch. I know the 987 was purchased as a car for driving it make the interior look very dated and low rent and i'd have to spend quite a bit to have the seats re-done and leather touch points (door handles, cubby lids, had brake and new gear gaiter).
I think I do need the test drive to decide. Don't like messing sales people about and being a test driver but in this case I think its a valid request to have a drive to see how it makes me feel.
Re depreciation. Good points
The 718 could loose £10k over the next two years. I could put another £ 3k into the 987 and make the interior better and have a unique but not chaved up 987 that I think would hold good value so probably the same 'cash' lost in that period.
Anyone care to comment on the mid range shove from the turbo? My driving pals are in a 997 C4S with X51 upgrades and a 991.2 C4S and kick sand in my windscreen coming out of low speed bends
I've had a 718 2.0 for almost three years and have loved it. It's been faultless and a lot of fun. A GTS 4.0 is due to replace it in a few months, which I'm looking forward to, but I'll miss that low down torque of the turbo car. Being 2018 and pre-OPF, it was also a little bit noisier in sport mode with the PSE and it's burbles on the overrun 
53x11 said:
Anyone care to comment on the mid range shove from the turbo? My driving pals are in a 997 C4S with X51 upgrades and a 991.2 C4S and kick sand in my windscreen coming out of low speed bends
It sounds like the mods you have made address some of the shortcomings I highlighted so this may not be as clearcut a decision as I thought.As you can see from some of the comments the 4 pot Turbo is a bit marmite but ultimately only you can decide if you like it or not. If you do you'll find that the mid range performance is very strong and if you keep it above 2k revs it pulls all the way to the red line. In the PDK versions dropping 1 or 2 gears see it pass slower traffic effortlessly with little or no turbo lag. It is quite a different experience from the 2.7 you've got now and you'll really only understand what that's like once you've driven one.
Be warned though that wave of torque is quite intoxicating and may lead you down a path of having to make a very difficult decision.
Cheers all
So, a very last minute decision to go to the Porsche Museum following the 991.2 C4S this weekend will mean a long time in the little Cayman and should give me time to understand if it's the long term keeper 'project' car or if it's shortcomings mean a decision needs to be made.
I'm also still on holiday when we come back so if the 718 is still available i'll book a test drive and see if it's all looks and no emotion or the full package.
Thanks again for the comments and glad there is still a bit of love for the lowly 2.7 Cayman
So, a very last minute decision to go to the Porsche Museum following the 991.2 C4S this weekend will mean a long time in the little Cayman and should give me time to understand if it's the long term keeper 'project' car or if it's shortcomings mean a decision needs to be made.
I'm also still on holiday when we come back so if the 718 is still available i'll book a test drive and see if it's all looks and no emotion or the full package.
Thanks again for the comments and glad there is still a bit of love for the lowly 2.7 Cayman
Have you got any side on shots showing off your two tone decals? I'm trying to establish whether my lowly 987 deserves them. Realise they divide opinion somewhat...
Can't offer much on the comparison other than I test drove both PDK 718 Boxster and Boxster S in the launch year and thought they were superb in every way bar the noise. I then fell in love with a guards red Cayman R that was also in the showroom, which planted the seed for the 987.
As years have passed I can't compare them back to back, but I suspect even the farty 2.0 would make mine feel slow looking at the torque curves.
Back in 2017 I did (de-)spec a poverty Cayman and it kind of made sense in the low 40s brand new. Paying more now for a four or five year old one makes less sense.
The 718 Cayman T is still very appealing for some reason, even if it doesn't offer great value compared to either the S, or a cheaper base model.
It must be the stripes
Can't offer much on the comparison other than I test drove both PDK 718 Boxster and Boxster S in the launch year and thought they were superb in every way bar the noise. I then fell in love with a guards red Cayman R that was also in the showroom, which planted the seed for the 987.
As years have passed I can't compare them back to back, but I suspect even the farty 2.0 would make mine feel slow looking at the torque curves.
Back in 2017 I did (de-)spec a poverty Cayman and it kind of made sense in the low 40s brand new. Paying more now for a four or five year old one makes less sense.
The 718 Cayman T is still very appealing for some reason, even if it doesn't offer great value compared to either the S, or a cheaper base model.
It must be the stripes
Edited by WayOutWest on Tuesday 24th August 10:11
I had specced a new 2.5S but based on this I think I may also try a 2.0 used to cut down on the wait...
I sometimes think the whole 4 vs 6 thing was invented by owners of the old models just to talk up their values when the new one came out. In this market though, the values are certainly holding up very well for all engine types !
987 definitely a classic, but I think it's a big jump now into the more recent models and is certainly worth a drive.
I sometimes think the whole 4 vs 6 thing was invented by owners of the old models just to talk up their values when the new one came out. In this market though, the values are certainly holding up very well for all engine types !
987 definitely a classic, but I think it's a big jump now into the more recent models and is certainly worth a drive.
WayOutWest said:
Have you got any side on shots showing off your two tone decals? I'm trying to establish whether my lowly 987 deserves them. Realise they divide opinion somewhat...
Can't offer much on the comparison other than I test drove both PDK 718 Boxster and Boxster S in the launch year and thought they were superb in every way bar the noise. I then fell in love with a guards red Cayman R that was also in the showroom, which planted the seed for the 987.
As years have passed I can't compare them back to back, but I suspect even the farty 2.0 would make mine feel slow looking at the torque curves.
Back in 2017 I did (de-)spec a poverty Cayman and it kind of made sense in the low 40s brand new. Paying more now for a four or five year old one makes less sense.
The 718 Cayman T is still very appealing for some reason, even if it doesn't offer great value compared to either the S, or a cheaper base model.
It must be the stripes
Here you go. Before I had the brakes refreshed. Can't offer much on the comparison other than I test drove both PDK 718 Boxster and Boxster S in the launch year and thought they were superb in every way bar the noise. I then fell in love with a guards red Cayman R that was also in the showroom, which planted the seed for the 987.
As years have passed I can't compare them back to back, but I suspect even the farty 2.0 would make mine feel slow looking at the torque curves.
Back in 2017 I did (de-)spec a poverty Cayman and it kind of made sense in the low 40s brand new. Paying more now for a four or five year old one makes less sense.
The 718 Cayman T is still very appealing for some reason, even if it doesn't offer great value compared to either the S, or a cheaper base model.
It must be the stripes
Edited by WayOutWest on Tuesday 24th August 10:11
tarquin274 said:
I sometimes think the whole 4 vs 6 thing was invented by owners of the old models just to talk up their values when the new one came out. In this market though, the values are certainly holding up very well for all engine types !
You need to drive them all and make your own conclusions on this but its a real thing, just depends what you prefer and everybody is different.I have driven them all, including a literal back-2-back of the 3.4 GTS Vs the 2.5 S across some amazing driving roads in north wales.
The 4 is an incredibly capable engine, the cars are supremely fast and responsive. In their own right they are amazing cars. But - for me - the nature of the delivery and the noise were a bit of a let down, even if objectively the engine is pulling some seriously impressive numbers. The 6's have character, they feel different at different parts of the rev range, they howl and they just feel (and sound) more 'special'. They are night and day.
For me, I'm not sure how anybody could do a back-2-back and conclude differently.......... but clearly there are lots of people who have and do - and fair play to you!!!
Each to their own, drive them and make your choice
OPOGTS said:
The 4 is an incredibly capable engine, the cars are supremely fast and responsive. In their own right they are amazing cars. But - for me - the nature of the delivery and the noise were a bit of a let down, even if objectively the engine is pulling some seriously impressive numbers. The 6's have character, they feel different at different parts of the rev range, they howl and they just feel (and sound) more 'special'. They are night and day.
For me, I'm not sure how anybody could do a back-2-back and conclude differently.......... but clearly there are lots of people who have and do - and fair play to you!!!
Quick update.For me, I'm not sure how anybody could do a back-2-back and conclude differently.......... but clearly there are lots of people who have and do - and fair play to you!!!
Ended up going on a last minute trip over to the Porsche Museum with a friend who had just picked up a 991.2 C4S. Stopped off at Reims on the way for some photos :-)
Well, after 1500 miles of French clear motorway, German mad motorway and UK gridlock the 2.7 is staying for a while :-) Astonishingly she managed to return 36mpg holding a steady 3000rpm (just over 80mph in 6th). Was completely outgunned by the 992 and pretty much anyone who wanted to cruise at 100mph+ but once we hit the B roads trying to keep her above 3000rpm in and out of the corners was a complete joy. Air Con (no climate) was fine, nav via my iPhone better than the 991 system and my Bluetooth adapter was making clearer calls than the OEM system in the 991 made the trip a joy.
She ticked over 80k miles on the way home and is running and sounds better than ever. Seems having a few hundred liters of V-Power run through in a short period of time at some good revs has cleared her throat.
Often far cheaper to keep the car you already have.
I traded my old 981 2.7 for a 718 2.0 a few years back now, and I still have it, as mentioned above the acceleration is superb. I certainly don't miss the 2.7 as I found it underpowered and needing to be worked hard- fun for the odd blast but short lived and frankly a bit of a pain to live with day to day.
The engine sound improves as the miles go on the 2.0 and I liked it to begin with, a lot of the internet "commentary" about it is a myth. What I would say though is, if you do ever look at 718s, get one that is pre-GPF as they actually sound great. The later ones are far more muted. I wouldn't bother with the PSE either as in sport mode they are plenty loud enough, the PSE I've had on loaners just seems to add more overrun to the point of being excessive.
YMMV etc etc yadda yadda
I traded my old 981 2.7 for a 718 2.0 a few years back now, and I still have it, as mentioned above the acceleration is superb. I certainly don't miss the 2.7 as I found it underpowered and needing to be worked hard- fun for the odd blast but short lived and frankly a bit of a pain to live with day to day.
The engine sound improves as the miles go on the 2.0 and I liked it to begin with, a lot of the internet "commentary" about it is a myth. What I would say though is, if you do ever look at 718s, get one that is pre-GPF as they actually sound great. The later ones are far more muted. I wouldn't bother with the PSE either as in sport mode they are plenty loud enough, the PSE I've had on loaners just seems to add more overrun to the point of being excessive.
YMMV etc etc yadda yadda
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