Mat watson - Carwow GT4 Review
Discussion
Good video but he prefers a manual with a lower spec (£97k - ouch!) so would this be a better option?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45I02HlpM2U
A 981 with a few upgrades and saving a few £k overall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45I02HlpM2U
A 981 with a few upgrades and saving a few £k overall.
As somebody who is/was in the market for a GT4, this video has certainly stopped me dead in my tracks and made me take stock. Back to a level of reality perhaps?!?
I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carerra would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carerra would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
kmpowell said:
As somebody who is/was in the market for a GT4, this video has certainly stopped me dead in my tracks and made me take stock. Back to a level of reality perhaps?!?
I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carerra would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
I agree. The GT4 seems to have gone extra silly, during this silly money period. There is one for sale at £115K!I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carerra would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107225...
I'm sure they are epic but £100K+ epic? I haven't seen any of the existing 25 odd move on - the listings for the 718Gt4 seem really stagnant.
Some odd comments here, not sure I would be taking Matt Watson’s advice!! Firstly why buy used GT4 from an overpriced OPC if you can still get a GT4 under factory warranty from a decent Independent? Most of them have super low miles. The likes of RPM, Ashgood and Romans (less so) seem to be selling their cars at fair values. Also values can be misleading as these are very spec sensitive.
Those hanging around are just greedy individuals or OPC’s chancing their arms. Also how many do you think they are going make even if unlimited? I doubt it will be in the thousands…I think they registered less than 500 manual cars at the beginning of the year. If you compare this with the new GT3 purely from a driver enjoyment perspective, a manual car with a NA flat six, track focussed.. IMHO I think both the 981 and 718 are bargains for a Porsche GT car.
G
Those hanging around are just greedy individuals or OPC’s chancing their arms. Also how many do you think they are going make even if unlimited? I doubt it will be in the thousands…I think they registered less than 500 manual cars at the beginning of the year. If you compare this with the new GT3 purely from a driver enjoyment perspective, a manual car with a NA flat six, track focussed.. IMHO I think both the 981 and 718 are bargains for a Porsche GT car.
G
Gio G said:
Some odd comments here, not sure I would be taking Matt Watson’s advice!! Firstly why buy used GT4 from an overpriced OPC if you can still get a GT4 under factory warranty from a decent Independent? Most of them have super low miles. The likes of RPM, Ashgood and Romans (less so) seem to be selling their cars at fair values. Also values can be misleading as these are very spec sensitive.
Those hanging around are just greedy individuals or OPC’s chancing their arms. Also how many do you think they are going make even if unlimited? I doubt it will be in the thousands…I think they registered less than 500 manual cars at the beginning of the year. If you compare this with the new GT3 purely from a driver enjoyment perspective, a manual car with a NA flat six, track focussed.. IMHO I think both the 981 and 718 are bargains for a Porsche GT car.
G
It's not about taking his "advice". He made a comment that the test car he had was a whopping £97k, which means c£20k of options. We all know that test cars are there to showcase, not represent reality, so if a 'decent' spec GT4 is £85k brand new, why should we be expected to pay £95k for an 18mth old car with the same spec? The car isn't limited run, it's not hard to get hold of, it's just market conditioning by Porsche.Those hanging around are just greedy individuals or OPC’s chancing their arms. Also how many do you think they are going make even if unlimited? I doubt it will be in the thousands…I think they registered less than 500 manual cars at the beginning of the year. If you compare this with the new GT3 purely from a driver enjoyment perspective, a manual car with a NA flat six, track focussed.. IMHO I think both the 981 and 718 are bargains for a Porsche GT car.
G
Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bulls
t, nothing more nothing less.kmpowell said:
It's not about taking his "advice". He made a comment that the test car he had was a whopping £97k, which means c£20k of options. We all know that test cars are there to showcase, not represent reality, so if a 'decent' spec GT4 is £85k brand new, why should we be expected to pay £95k for an 18mth old car with the same spec? The car isn't limited run, it's not hard to get hold of, it's just market conditioning by Porsche.
Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bullst, nothing more nothing less.
All I can say is I got lucky then. Paid well under list price for an 8 month old car from Ashgood, while OPC were charging at the time 3k over list for the same clubsport spec with PCCB’s. Have you driven one? Really happy with mine.Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bulls
t, nothing more nothing less.G
Gio G said:
All I can say is I got lucky then. Paid well under list price for an 8 month old car from Ashgood, while OPC were charging at the time 3k over list for the same clubsport spec with PCCB’s. Have you driven one? Really happy with mine.
G
How long ago did you buy yours, I'd guess at least 6-9mths ago? Things have gone crazy in that time.G
I've driven a GTS 4.0, but not a GT4.
kmpowell said:
It's not about taking his "advice". He made a comment that the test car he had was a whopping £97k, which means c£20k of options. We all know that test cars are there to showcase, not represent reality, so if a 'decent' spec GT4 is £85k brand new, why should we be expected to pay £95k for an 18mth old car with the same spec? The car isn't limited run, it's not hard to get hold of, it's just market conditioning by Porsche.
Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bullst, nothing more nothing less.
Bournemouth OPC have had 2 70 plate GT4s for sale for a while now, and I’m sure both have been reduced by a grand or so, they’ve now been joined by another 1 so maybe they are trying to corner the market. Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bulls
t, nothing more nothing less.
In April anything nice was shifting within days, it definitely seems to have slowed now though.
RichardAP said:
kmpowell said:
It's not about taking his "advice". He made a comment that the test car he had was a whopping £97k, which means c£20k of options. We all know that test cars are there to showcase, not represent reality, so if a 'decent' spec GT4 is £85k brand new, why should we be expected to pay £95k for an 18mth old car with the same spec? The car isn't limited run, it's not hard to get hold of, it's just market conditioning by Porsche.
Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bullst, nothing more nothing less.
Bournemouth OPC have had 2 70 plate GT4s for sale for a while now, and I’m sure both have been reduced by a grand or so, they’ve now been joined by another 1 so maybe they are trying to corner the market. Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bulls
t, nothing more nothing less.In April anything nice was shifting within days, it definitely seems to have slowed now though.
kmpowell said:
Gio G said:
Exactly 3 months ago..
G
You were very fortunate then. A GT4 under list, at pretty much any point after March this year, is an extremely good buy.G
I got mine below list also (fully loaded spec). A few months ago they were not shifting very well at all, Ashgood even sold one below what they paid just to move it on… <£80k
kmpowell said:
It's not about taking his "advice". He made a comment that the test car he had was a whopping £97k, which means c£20k of options. We all know that test cars are there to showcase, not represent reality, so if a 'decent' spec GT4 is £85k brand new, why should we be expected to pay £95k for an 18mth old car with the same spec? The car isn't limited run, it's not hard to get hold of, it's just market conditioning by Porsche.
Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bullst, nothing more nothing less.
I’ve also spent some time in the (981) GT4 used market recently, and bought one. Spend some time in the GT4 used market (as I have done recently), and you'll see that RPM, Ashgood and all the other independents price their cars the same as OPCs. Values are not spec sensitive either, that's a myth. If the myths were to be believed then a GT4 must have buckets, well let me tell you that from the 25 rotating OPC cars in the past month, every single one (bar 1) has sold with comfort seats. The last car to disappear from the OPC locator was a base car that had nothing but model designation deletion, and that was £87k. 'Must have' spec is driven by OPC bulls
t, nothing more nothing less.My impression of the OPC 981 stock is that they are usually (but not universally) lower spec cars. My guess is that OPCs buy on the basis that options are worth next to nothing and sell on the basis that an OPC sale adds a premium and that the options are worth something. If so, a well optioned car will get a low ball offer from an OPC and is more likely to end up somewhere else.
As ane fule kno, Porsche are notorious and masterful in equal measure when it comes to “options” that ought to be standard (2k for PCM with nav? Haha. Not) or no cost, before one even gets to genuine options that one might want. A quick tot up of the ones on mine comes in at 16k or thereabouts. Which on a 64.5k base price is frankly ridiculous. But someone else’s extravagance has produced a car that ticks all my boxes.
The biggest and to my mind slightly irrational driver of GT4 prices seems to be mileage.
718s seem to be quite hyped right now and there is certainly one up for sale privately on AT which is (to me) cloud cuckoo land pricing. Good luck to the seller if they can get that money. At the other end of the spectrum there is a private fully loaded 981 clubsport also up on AT with higher than average miles for a GT4 which isn’t shifting despite regular price drops.
kmpowell said:
As somebody who is/was in the market for a GT4, this video has certainly stopped me dead in my tracks and made me take stock. Back to a level of reality perhaps?!?
I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carrera would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
Really? I’m struggling to understand whether you are disappointed with the car, the lack of investment potential, or the attitude of OPC’s. I was not even questioning dropping £95k on a 18month old example. But Matt's comments about options and overall price resonated. £95k on a non-limited run Cayman really is just madness, what am I thinking.
These OPC prices are nothing but greed opportunism, nothing to do with supply and demand like a GT3 992. There's 21 in OPC's and several more appearing on Autotrader, several in OPC's have been around now for a few months and not shifted. PDK GT4's and the GT4 RS on the horizon will mean even more GT4's coming to market, even if that is just pipeline for next year.
My 'ideal' spec brand new GT4 would only be £84k. Hell, a brand new 992 Carrera would only be £93k!
With that in mind, I think I'm out, for now...
Firstly, how can you compare a GT product with a base 992? Secondly, Porsche finally produce a GT car in RHD, in such numbers that normal mortals (like me) can actually buy the things. Is that a problem? Thirdly, no-one is forcing you to pay over the odds for a second hand one. Just don’t do it, I wouldn’t. However, if you can lay your hands on what must be one of the finest sports cars on the planet for £95k or even less if you don’t want PCCB or carbon buckets, I would hardly describe that as madness. What else are you going to buy that is in the same league?
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