718S manual transmission -any criticisms from current owners

[Bubbledragon]

Can't decide between manual & pdk before put down my deposit.
Rather than starting another non-ending debate, wonder if any current owners ( who has been driving the car for a fair while) with the manual transmission, found anything to comment / critique / criticise on the lever feel / lever position / gear box in general / clutch / manageability at high speed cornering etc etc

Really appreciate your comments cheers

[Prospective]

Have you been to the PEC? I tried both before ordering.
My car has the PDK but each to their own. The PDK suited my style of driving and use.
The PEC day covered all kinds of driving with lots of gear changes - I just felt the PDK was better for me and I drove better with it.

[Twinfan]

Pretty sure it will be the same box as the 981 series, which no-one ever complains about!

[bcr5784]

The 718 has quite a lot of turbo lag. Some don't seem to notice it either because they subconsciously drive around it or because PDK masks it. How much it irritates seems to be a very personal thing - but if you think it will be an issue to you (probably when you are driving gently rather than razzing it) then PDK may well be a better choice. But as has been said, try both at the PEC - and drive gently as well as fast.

[adamishome]

I have a 718 Cayman S with a 6 speed and I absolutely love it.

I get that the PDK will shift faster. I get that my 0-100 time would be a few tenths quicker. I know that resale will be better etc.

However, there is something visceral about being engaged with the car. Like most people here, I have a lazy car (Mercedes CLS350) which I would never dream of getting in a manual. However, these are sports cars that are designed to engage and excite you. For me personally, I love it.

Each to their own but even the fact that you are thinking about it should tell you what to do.

[Tim bo]

Yep, Adam's sentiments there reflect my own.

I have a manual 6-speed 718CS coming my way in 2 week's time. I want to engage with the car to a greater degree; have that level of clutch control and separation of the drive and power trains missing with PDK, and most importantly the ability to jump selectively across ratios, which you can't do with PDK.

The level of control and engagement with the manual is more important to me than the efficiency and speed of the auto-shifter. Others care much less about the former attributes and prefer the latter which the PDK offers.

Only you can decide which of the two better suits your style of driving.

In terms of 'how good is the manual 'box' in the 718, well, reviews generally have it as about as good as a manual 'box can be. Quick and short, slots into gears efficiently and intuitively. Test drive has reflected that.

Edited by Tim bo on Tuesday 14th February 13:10

[shost]

Driven the Boxter at PEC. Main complaint with manual is ratios as it was equally quick and thanks to torque equally driveable that you could easily be in second or third for the majority of driving. You didn't have to pick the right gear to drive hard out of corners or heel toe to slow down. They put it in the mode where auto blip was off and it was very intuitive still. I personally found the manual slightly at odds with the feel and control weights of the car overall. So im the end we went PDK. (NB But our other cars are all manual)

Edited by shost on Tuesday 14th February 13:21

[Tim bo]

Ah yes, the long ratios - 80mph in second gear ...

Something else to be aware of on the manual 'box.

(not sure if the ratios are long on the PDK too - but given that you get an extra gear on PDK the ratios would be at least slightly shorter than the manual)

[Malo]

I test drove a manual 718 - just could not get on with it - also when I am driving in a spirited manner I like to have both hands on the steering wheel all the time.

[bcr5784]

Tim bo said:

Yep, Adam's sentiments there reflect my own.

and most importantly the ability to jump selectively across ratios, which you can't do with PDK.

Edited by Tim bo on Tuesday 14th February 13:10

I get why many prefer a manual, but since you can make at least 3 ratio changes with PDK in the time you can make 1 with a manual, I don't think the ability to skip ratios is really an argument in favour of a manual. Even in manual mode PDK won't let the engine labour and will change down as you slow - going into first when you come to a stop.

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 14th February 13:50

[Tim bo]

bcr5784 said:

I get why many prefer a manual, but since you can make at least 3 ratio changes with PDK in the time you can make 1 with a manual, I don't think the ability to skip ratios is really an argument in favour of a manual. Even in manual mode PDK won't let the engine labour and will change down as you slow - going into first when you come to a stop.

Ah but therein lies the rub, and you've pointed out exactly why I prefer manual over auto.

Speed of getting to a particular gear is of little consequence to me. I don't care that an auto can get from 2nd to 5th through the gears quicker than I can manually jump straight from 2nd to 5th. The point is that I don't want to go through the gears, and I don't have an option to skip them in the auto.

Let's say I want to accelerate hard in 2nd gear up to cruising speed NSL 60mph for a bit of blast. At 60 I'll want to then ponderously ease in the clutch, and move over to cruising in 5th or 6th. Can't do that with an auto - I don't want to go through 3rd and 4th - I want to skip them entirely.

Or while going from cruising and approaching a red light or roundabout. I may possibly want to notch out of 5th and straight into 2nd, easing in the clutch, and balancing engine braking with actual braking. Can't do that with an auto either - you have no choice but to go through the gears.

Just two examples from the top of my head out of many as to why I prefer manual, and why I've specced a manual on my impending 718CS. It really boils down to having the choice to select any gear, at any time. That element of control is missing in an auto.

I'm coming out of an M235i with the excellent ZF 8 speed auto. It's while driving that over the last 2 years that I've established the above, and just how much the auto or the semi-auto flappy paddle irritates me, and just how much the manual gives me what I need. An auto just does not suit my driving style and what I require from a car. A manual does.

Others will read the above, wonder what the hell I'm on about, and blat away happy to be flapping through all the gears in semi-auto or just leaving the auto to do its thing.

As always, different horses for different courses.

Edited by Tim bo on Tuesday 14th February 14:42

[daz05]

Even as a manual fan I don't fully see where you are coming from. The main argument for selecting manual is that you are more engaged in actually driving the car, operating the clutch, rev matching and shifting gear manually is something you can do badly or well and that's what makes it more involving.

The ability to block shift isn't really anything to be getting excited about. PDK is so smooth that shifting through from 2nd to 5th is easy and no longer becomes a chore.

The trouble with manual in the 981 and 718 by the sound of it is that the ratios are overly long meaning you reduce the number of opportunities to actually change gear where and when I really wanted to. This for me outweighed the perceived benefit of the additional involvement provided by the manual.

[bcr5784]

Tim bo said:

Speed of getting to a particular gear is of little consequence to me. I don't care that an auto can get from 2nd to 5th through the gears quicker than I can manually jump straight from 2nd to 5th. The point is that I don't have an option to skip gears in the auto.


So it should be clear that an auto just does not suit my driving style and what I require from a car.

Edited by Tim bo on Tuesday 14th February 14:24

I accept entirely that you (and many others) prefer manual for perfectly understandable reasons - I just can't see how that is one of them.

In a manual gearbox to get from 2nd to 5th you have to move the gear lever forward, right and forward - 3 separate moves. To get from 2nd to 5th with PDK you have to pull the right hand lever 3 times in quick succession. I can accept you might find it physically more pleasant stirring a manual box (I do) but it's not as if you are actually aware of all the intermediate gears being engaged with PDK in that circumstance. In fact I'm not even sure all the intermediate gears are engaged at all if you do it that quickly.

(There's no reason why the software can't skip gears, in some circumstances, - it's not like a motobike - it does in kickdown and often seems to if you brake to a stop).

So for all practical purposes you can skip gears just as readily (arguably more so) with PDK as with a manual - though you may well find it more pleasant with a manual.

[Tim bo]

daz05 said:

Even as a manual fan I don't fully see where you are coming from. The main argument for selecting manual is that you are more engaged in actually driving the car, operating the clutch, rev matching and shifting gear manually is something you can do badly or well and that's what makes it more involving.

The ability to block shift isn't really anything to be getting excited about.

Indeed, and agree absolutely.

Block shift was simply one aspect I pulled out of bcr's post. All the rest of your points regarding engagement I already referred to in my previous post as reasons why I prefer manual, so already covered.

[PhantomPH]

The 981 clutch seems very heavy to me (coming from a 2015 S3 which - it turned out- was like stepping in ice cream by comparison) so if the 718 is the same, you really should try both and see what you could live with.

Ditto the stiffness of 1st/2nd on cold mornings, it really is a completely different 'living with' experience to the PDK. It's most definitely NOT just a case of 'Oh, real drivers have manual' or 'Manual is so much more engaging'. I genuinely think that the manual box could sully the ownership experience for you if you plan on daily driving the car and are used to an easier life.

For the sake of your own sanity, try both and decide - nobody's advice is going to tell you what YOU prefer.

• note - I f'ing love every inch of my manual 981 but even I spend time in traffic and think, "Yeah - I'd have PDK for this bit...".

[Mario149]

Tim bo said:

Ah yes, the long ratios - 80mph in second gear ...

Something else to be aware of on the manual 'box.

(not sure if the ratios are long on the PDK too - but given that you get an extra gear on PDK the ratios would be at least slightly shorter than the manual)

On paper a 718 might fare better than a 981 for this. A manual 981 will do 84mph in 2nd gear which was for me a deal breaker because as much as I love manuals and didn't want to fork out an extra £2k+ in principle for PDK, I saw little point in buying a car with a rev-happy engine that I could only redline in 2 gears without losing my licence. PDK gearing is about 10% or more shorter for the first 6 ratios.

With a 718 however, assuming the manual and PDK in gear speeds are similar to the 981, the nature of the engine is that there's not a great deal of point in taking it all the way to the redline, ergo a manual might be fine. And if the PDK is anything like the unit in the 991.2S I test drove, it'd kick down if you even looked at the pedal a bit too hard (presumably to hide the turbo lag) which got irritating after a while. All that said, you'd have to weigh up the uber sensitive kick down of PDK against the more noticeable turbo lag of the manual and decide which one annoyed you least all other things being equal.

[bcr5784]

Mario149 said:

With a 718 however, assuming the manual and PDK in gear speeds are similar to the 981, the nature of the engine is that there's not a great deal of point in taking it all the way to the redline, ergo a manual might be fine.

The 718 PDK has (allegedly) a longer diff than before, (3.62 vs 3.89) so no longer has such a gearing "advantage" over the manual. On the other hand a PDK can mask the lag of the turbo better than the manual. It's something only a buyer can decide. (But I would add that I've never been entirely convinced my 981 PDK has a 3.89 diff - speedo, rev counter and GPs figures have never quite tallied and I could actually believe it too has a 3.62 diff.)

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 14th February 19:58

[Nomes]

I have a 981 CS with the 6 speed manual. Much prefer it to PDK, which I have test driven a couple of times. My only slight niggle with the set-up is that I find the pedal layout a little sub-optimal for heel-and-toe, with the brake pedal significantly higher than the throttle. The pedals in the 987 series were better in this regard. The actual shift is lovely though.

[SV_WDC]

Tim bo said:

Ah yes, the long ratios - 80mph in second gear ...

Something else to be aware of on the manual 'box.

(not sure if the ratios are long on the PDK too - but given that you get an extra gear on PDK the ratios would be at least slightly shorter than the manual)

PDK cars have 7 gears
1-6 are on a sports ratio
7th gear is purely for the fuel consumption when you are wafting

If you enable Sports mode then 7th gear is disabled

No idea about the ratios for PDK vs manual. I'd have assumed the same (as 0-60, 0-100 times are often explained as 'slower to change gear in the manuals')

[bcr5784]

SV_WDC said:

If you enable Sports mode then 7th gear is disabled

Not on my car - it is much more reluctant to use 7th but it does use it at a constant cruise at highish speeds.