Recommended Oil
Discussion
Look in the manual to see what weight is designated by the builders of the engine.
If it is 'high' mileage there are schools of thought that recommend moving the 'cold' weight up by 5 or even 10.
Search on say Opie's website for a good oil in the weight you have decided on from the above.
HTH
If it is 'high' mileage there are schools of thought that recommend moving the 'cold' weight up by 5 or even 10.
Search on say Opie's website for a good oil in the weight you have decided on from the above.
HTH
ttraynor said:
Thanks Guys,
will look on the web site. The engine was rebuilt 6,000mls ago and is under a two year warranty. I will check if there is an oil specified under the warranty.
Regards
Tom
Where was the engine rebuilt? By whom? If an indy shop check with it to find out what it recommends in order to keep the warranty intact. Then use that oil.will look on the web site. The engine was rebuilt 6,000mls ago and is under a two year warranty. I will check if there is an oil specified under the warranty.
Regards
Tom
If at a dealer then I believe the same oil that was specified for the original engine is just fine.
Do not go by the owners manual. Unfortunately, the info in that that is woefully out of date, make that wrong, based on what Porsche gives in its approved oils bulletins it issues every once in a while.
Only 0w-40, and 5w-40 oils and one 5w-50 oil are approved. However, there are maybe 20 or 25 different oil brands represented and in some cases the oil brand has more than one oil that is approved. But I must stress not all 0w-40, 5w-40, and 5w-50 oils are approved. Apparently there is more to receiving an approval than just having the same nominal multi-grade oil viscosity.
Orangecurry said:
Look in the manual to see what weight is designated by the builders of the engine.
If it is 'high' mileage there are schools of thought that recommend moving the 'cold' weight up by 5 or even 10.
Search on say Opie's website for a good oil in the weight you have decided on from the above.
HTH
Changing the cold weight doesn't make sense. If it is 'high' mileage there are schools of thought that recommend moving the 'cold' weight up by 5 or even 10.
Search on say Opie's website for a good oil in the weight you have decided on from the above.
HTH
What's needed is an oil that's slightly thicker when hot. I think it's easy to forget that all engine oils are like water when at running temp and (relatively-speaking) like treacle when cold. Putting-in an oil that's more treacley' when cold, but no less watery when hot, isn't going to help. It will take longer to get round the engine cold (read 'wear') and make not one jot of difference at running temp (hot rating = how watery when hot: bigger number = less watery)! What's needed is one that's no more treacley when cold, but goes a little less watery when hot! (i.e. no less protection cold and fills slightly worn gaps a bit better hot).
So an increase in the HOT rating is what's required, not the cold - ideally a 0W-50 rather than a 0W-40. In practice, 5W-50 or 10W-50 might be easier to find and won't be very much more treacley when cold (well UK-cold, anyway).
Ian_UK1 said:
Changing the cold weight doesn't make sense.
What's needed is an oil that's slightly thicker when hot. I think it's easy to forget that all engine oils are like water when at running temp and (relatively-speaking) like treacle when cold. Putting-in an oil that's more treacley' when cold, but no less watery when hot, isn't going to help. It will take longer to get round the engine cold (read 'wear') and make not one jot of difference at running temp (hot rating = how watery when hot: bigger number = less watery)! What's needed is one that's no more treacley when cold, but goes a little less watery when hot! (i.e. no less protection cold and fills slightly worn gaps a bit better hot).
So an increase in the HOT rating is what's required, not the cold - ideally a 0W-50 rather than a 0W-40. In practice, 5W-50 or 10W-50 might be easier to find and won't be very much more treacley when cold (well UK-cold, anyway).
Based on my info the viscosity under high shear (ASTM D 4683, CEC L-36-A-90, ASTM D4741) mPa * s at 150C and 10^6 s-1 minute) is the same (2.9) for 0w-40, 5w-40, and 10w-40 oils. To get higher -- not that I think higher is necessary and in no way recommending any of these oils -- one has to go to a 15w-40, 20w-40, or a 25w-40 or a straight 40 oil and that gets one 3.7 (vs. the 2.9).What's needed is an oil that's slightly thicker when hot. I think it's easy to forget that all engine oils are like water when at running temp and (relatively-speaking) like treacle when cold. Putting-in an oil that's more treacley' when cold, but no less watery when hot, isn't going to help. It will take longer to get round the engine cold (read 'wear') and make not one jot of difference at running temp (hot rating = how watery when hot: bigger number = less watery)! What's needed is one that's no more treacley when cold, but goes a little less watery when hot! (i.e. no less protection cold and fills slightly worn gaps a bit better hot).
So an increase in the HOT rating is what's required, not the cold - ideally a 0W-50 rather than a 0W-40. In practice, 5W-50 or 10W-50 might be easier to find and won't be very much more treacley when cold (well UK-cold, anyway).
Frankly, I have no confidence in this high miles oil stuff. I have to point out my 02 Boxster with over 277K miles runs just fine on 0w-40 oil in even the most blistering of heat of hot days, for instance 116F in the shade and no shade, with a coolant temp of 226F and who knows how hot the oil is. (The Turbo survived just fine when I drove it a couple of hundred miles across portions of western AZ/eastern CA in 118F heat too.)
I tried 5w-50 in the Boxster (and in the Turbo) and I couldn't tell the difference in how the engine sounded in either car nor the oil pressure using the oil pressure gage in the Turbo read. Based on the oil pressure gage's behavior and the engine sounds I couldn't tell which oil was in the engine. So I gave up on 5w-50 oil as it is a bit of trouble to come by.
From the original question, I stand by my recommendation to follow what is in the drivers manual.
Now we know the engine has been rebuilt, it would follow to ask the people who had rebuilt it.
Porsches 'approval' list is merely a sub-set of the manufacturers who make those 'weight' of oils that are suitable for your engine. It may NOT take into account the constant changes of oil specifications - i.e. the content of the additives in the oil due to the changing API or ACEA rules. You then have to take into account the mineral, semi-synthetic, fully-synthetic and ester-based oils yadda yadda yadda and the OP wasn't asking an in-depth oil question.
Opie include this sub-set of Approved oils, but I stand by my recommendation that anything they sell will include, be as good or better than what's on the approval list.
As regards bumping-up the 'cold weight', my understanding of the theory was that a higher-mileage engine being more worn would benefit from a slightly higher oil-pressure at start-up, which is where most of the wear occurs.
Most 'air-cooled' owners I've spoken to on this subject report only good things about moving to a 10-40 from a 5-40, but both are in the Driver's manual.
As usual I'm struggling (on the internet which of course is never wrong) to find anything concrete to back this up, but here's a thing - Mobil 1 have a range for 'high-mileage' engines. There is no 0 'Cold' weight in this lineup.
Now we know the engine has been rebuilt, it would follow to ask the people who had rebuilt it.
Porsches 'approval' list is merely a sub-set of the manufacturers who make those 'weight' of oils that are suitable for your engine. It may NOT take into account the constant changes of oil specifications - i.e. the content of the additives in the oil due to the changing API or ACEA rules. You then have to take into account the mineral, semi-synthetic, fully-synthetic and ester-based oils yadda yadda yadda and the OP wasn't asking an in-depth oil question.
Opie include this sub-set of Approved oils, but I stand by my recommendation that anything they sell will include, be as good or better than what's on the approval list.
As regards bumping-up the 'cold weight', my understanding of the theory was that a higher-mileage engine being more worn would benefit from a slightly higher oil-pressure at start-up, which is where most of the wear occurs.
Most 'air-cooled' owners I've spoken to on this subject report only good things about moving to a 10-40 from a 5-40, but both are in the Driver's manual.
As usual I'm struggling (on the internet which of course is never wrong) to find anything concrete to back this up, but here's a thing - Mobil 1 have a range for 'high-mileage' engines. There is no 0 'Cold' weight in this lineup.
Mobil said:
Mobil 1™ High Mileage oils are designed to help maximize engine performance and extend the engine life of vehicles with over 75,000 miles.
Mobil 1 High Mileage is available in four viscosity grades 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.aspxMobil 1 High Mileage is available in four viscosity grades 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40.
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 17th February 21:42
Orangecurry said:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENP...
Well, you appear to simply rely what is on the label -- "high mileage" -- and decide that's the oil. I have to point out that every oil maker has somewhere on its web site amongst all the glowing hype about its oil to always go by what the automaker recommends or advises.Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 17th February 21:42
And Porsche does not recognize any 10w-xx or other high mileage oils. It does not recognize any semi-synthetic or mineral oil either.
The approved oils are only approved for a certain amount of time. After which they are no longer approved unless the oil maker seeks another approval.
And I have no idea on what you base this claim upon:
"Opie include this sub-set of Approved oils, but I stand by my recommendation that anything they sell will include, be as good or better than what's on the approval list."
Edited by Rockster on Thursday 20th February 00:02
Rockster said:
Well, you appear to simply rely what is on the label -- "high mileage" -- and decide that's the oil. I have to point out that every oil maker has somewhere on its web site amongst all the glowing hype about its oil to always go by what the automaker recommends or advises.
Yes - that's what I said. Orangecurry said:
Look in the manual to see what weight is designated by the builders of the engine.
The link to Mobil was to illustrate that they don't make an 0W high mileage oil, I at no point 'decided that was the oil'. I can spell out the implication if you like (that they make an 0W for lower mileage engines, but they don't for higher mileage engines, therefore they think that 0W is not as good for higher mileage engines) but I thought that was obvious.Rockster said:
And Porsche does not recognize any 10w-xx or other high mileage oils. It does not recognize any semi-synthetic or mineral oil either.
But what was on their wonderful approval list when they designed the engine?Rockster said:
The approved oils are only approved for a certain amount of time. After which they are no longer approved unless the oil maker seeks another approval.
Yes. Going off-topic, I'd rather have an older formulation of oil with higher levels of proven-lubricants and less focus on cutting emissions than (say) the SM or SN series of API oils. Newer is not always better.Rockster said:
And I have no idea on what you base this claim upon:
"Opie include this sub-set of Approved oils, but I stand by my recommendation that anything they sell will include, be as good or better than what's on the approval list."
Oil threads always seem to throw up arguments. "Opie include this sub-set of Approved oils, but I stand by my recommendation that anything they sell will include, be as good or better than what's on the approval list."
Opie don't sell cheap/nasty oil. Your opinion is that if it isn't on the Approval list, it isn't good enough. There are other well-documented opinions that differ from yours.
Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 20th February 10:02
Orangecurry said:
Oil threads always seem to throw up arguments.
Opie don't sell cheap/nasty oil. Your opinion is that if it isn't on the Approval list, it isn't good enough. There are other well-documented opinions that differ from yours.
When those that have those opinions warranty the engine for 50K or even 100K miles, like Porsche does, then I might listen. Until then the opinions are just noise.Opie don't sell cheap/nasty oil. Your opinion is that if it isn't on the Approval list, it isn't good enough. There are other well-documented opinions that differ from yours.
Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 20th February 10:02
If one decides to go off the reservation regarding oil and go with a non-approved oil then he can justify using whatever oil he wants any way he wants. My philosophy is stay on the reservation and for Porsches trust Porsche knows best.
Rockster said:
When those that have those opinions warranty the engine for 50K or even 100K miles, like Porsche does, then I might listen. Until then the opinions are just noise.
If one decides to go off the reservation regarding oil and go with a non-approved oil then he can justify using whatever oil he wants any way he wants. My philosophy is stay on the reservation and for Porsches trust Porsche knows best.
1) After the way Porsche have created and then dealt with the M96 engine issues.....? Really?If one decides to go off the reservation regarding oil and go with a non-approved oil then he can justify using whatever oil he wants any way he wants. My philosophy is stay on the reservation and for Porsches trust Porsche knows best.
2) you seem to have ignored my points on the fact that oil has been dumbed-down over the past fifteen years, AND what was on the approved-list when the engine was designed?
Hey-ho.
Rockster said:
When those that have those opinions warranty the engine for 50K or even 100K miles, like Porsche does, then I might listen. Until then the opinions are just noise.
How about Hartech and Millers Oils. Are Millers on the list?http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_997_Boxster_eng...
If I'm not mistaken you don't rate Hartech do you?
Here's a quote from them in case you missed it.
hartech said:
However I don't understand the logic of believing that the company that designed the engines we repair all day long know better than us when ours then do not fail after the modifications we have to carry out and the rebuilds nor that Porsche would not have commercial reasons for recommending certain product suppliers. Their recommended oils didn't stop bore scoring or IMS failures - and neither did they fix the problems by design improvements - but eventually had to rely on a whole new design to get out of trouble.
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