Looking at building a track car
Discussion
Hi Ruane, unless it simply has to be a Porsche, I'd say avoid a Porsche if keeping costs down is a priority, especially a Boxster, given their known engine weaknesses. Standard oil system isn't really upto brutal track work.
You can have a huge amount of fun in something much cheaper. Cheaper on petrol, cheaper engines if you blow it up, cheaper bumpers and panels if you bump it, etc, etc.
I personally have a hoot in good fwd hatches. 306Gti6s are good, as are Honda Civic Type Rs.
Off topic do you still have your 964RS? I was chatting to you at Cars in the Park a few years back.
You can have a huge amount of fun in something much cheaper. Cheaper on petrol, cheaper engines if you blow it up, cheaper bumpers and panels if you bump it, etc, etc.
I personally have a hoot in good fwd hatches. 306Gti6s are good, as are Honda Civic Type Rs.
Off topic do you still have your 964RS? I was chatting to you at Cars in the Park a few years back.
ruane said:
I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels.
I don't know much about Simon's car but it's set up for sprinting (where you drive a short 40-70 second run maybe 4-6 times over a 1 day event) and it's pretty safe to say he has the budget to prepare and run it properly.I've raced a 1999 Boxster S belonging to Hartech for 2 seasons and was involved from before they purchased the donor car. That was a very straight and tidy 150k mile road car bought off eBay for around £4k. I drove it the day it arrived and it was very tired indeed and you wouldn't have wanted to drive it to a distant race track, never mind around it.
They've done a great job building and running it and it's had a 100% reliability record but the budget was there to do it. The suspension cost a LOT more than the car did, it's got an Accusump oil system to protect against oil surge (as well as a bigger/ baffled sump) which definitely helps and always comes into use (the cylinder/reservoir is warm/hot after each track session).
It is great to drive and capable of some very decent lap times so I'm sure if you prepare one well you'll really enjoy it, but even for a bare bones budget one expect to spend over £15k and a LOT of your own time to get a basically OK car (perhaps with the Gaz dampers,etc) and take the risk on the engine. For one like the Hartech cars you'd double that budget and still not get close.
If it were me with a £10-15k budget I'd get the best 944 ex-race car I could - great fun and nearly as quick as most people would get in a low budget Boxster S, with lower running costs and less risk of an engine failure (and lower cost to rectify).
ruane said:
I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels.
I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim.On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine.
Ozzie Osmond said:
ruane said:
I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels.
I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim.On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine.
Ozzie Osmond said:
ruane said:
I would like a boxster and there seems to be plenty that have been stripped out and set up for track, I would like to do most of the work myself I remember Simon Butterworth having 1 with roll cage and lightweight body panels.
I don't see why that should be too much of a problem, provided you steer clear of "tuning" for more power. The impression I have is not so much that Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim.On track the quickest car will always be the lightest one belonging to the person who spent the most money. If you just want a bit of fun you should be fine.
You have both missed the context of the quotation where statements like 'steer clear of tuning for power' and 'Boxster engines are weak, but that they don't take kindly to being abused or asked to give more than they have in standard trim'. Nobody was advocating that engine tuning was a must have but it was implied that not only is it a waste of time but detrimental to the car. I simply write that that is not my experience.
Don't run too much grip*, make sure it has good fluid in and pads. Spend the money on either instruction or more track days.
* adding grip will cause more problems than good. Suspension components will be much more stressed, as will brakes. Sure you'll go faster, but as has been mentioned, is a lap time really important on a track day? Fun is important and driving is fun. The more of a challenge, the more fun. Run a higher power to grip ratio rather than the other way around if you're sticking with the car you've got and don't get caught up in building a track car.
For me if you want a car that can do both, it's an Elise (not an Exige which is way more compromised on the road). More track biased I'd personally go Caterham, which I consider to be the perfect all round track day car. More road biased; something like a GT86 on a budget could be interesting, with a lot of cash it's a GT3.
* adding grip will cause more problems than good. Suspension components will be much more stressed, as will brakes. Sure you'll go faster, but as has been mentioned, is a lap time really important on a track day? Fun is important and driving is fun. The more of a challenge, the more fun. Run a higher power to grip ratio rather than the other way around if you're sticking with the car you've got and don't get caught up in building a track car.
For me if you want a car that can do both, it's an Elise (not an Exige which is way more compromised on the road). More track biased I'd personally go Caterham, which I consider to be the perfect all round track day car. More road biased; something like a GT86 on a budget could be interesting, with a lot of cash it's a GT3.
Here's a thought. If you want to know what a Boxster feels like on track, why not buy yourself some time at the Porsche experience centre at Silverstone? Much cheaper than finding you've started with the wrong car.
£275 for 90 minutes.
http://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/p...
£275 for 90 minutes.
http://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/p...
A few questions for the OP
When you say "low cost" what do you mean? - £5k, 10k, 20k, 50k? I bet each one of these means "low cost" to someone...
Is this a track only car, or a road car that you want to use on the track occasionally? If it's track only, will you trailer it to & from the track or are you keeping it road legal?
UK tracks or Spa / Ring etc..?
I'm looking to use my 986 Boxster S next year - I did one damp day at Silverstone in November & the main thing it needed was proper seats as the Porsche sports seats are useless. It's got pretty much completely new suspension inc m030 dampers, springs and ARB's. I think it works OK as a road/ track car. I'll also do something about the potential for oil surge, probably fit better baffles. I think the bucket seat actually suits the car on the road now it's stiffer with m030.
If I was towing I'd be very tempted by a caterham - makes the whole experience more intense I think. May not be so much fun on wet trackdays though.
An ex-racer is also a good option, and there are a few 944's floating round at reasonable prices. I've really enjoyed my 944S2 track car until it broke at Spa but I think the boxster will be quicker. It certainly seems to need a different driving style & I have lots to learn.
When you say "low cost" what do you mean? - £5k, 10k, 20k, 50k? I bet each one of these means "low cost" to someone...
Is this a track only car, or a road car that you want to use on the track occasionally? If it's track only, will you trailer it to & from the track or are you keeping it road legal?
UK tracks or Spa / Ring etc..?
I'm looking to use my 986 Boxster S next year - I did one damp day at Silverstone in November & the main thing it needed was proper seats as the Porsche sports seats are useless. It's got pretty much completely new suspension inc m030 dampers, springs and ARB's. I think it works OK as a road/ track car. I'll also do something about the potential for oil surge, probably fit better baffles. I think the bucket seat actually suits the car on the road now it's stiffer with m030.
If I was towing I'd be very tempted by a caterham - makes the whole experience more intense I think. May not be so much fun on wet trackdays though.
An ex-racer is also a good option, and there are a few 944's floating round at reasonable prices. I've really enjoyed my 944S2 track car until it broke at Spa but I think the boxster will be quicker. It certainly seems to need a different driving style & I have lots to learn.
thegoose said:
If the seats aren't holding you well enough I'd suggest making sure your seatbelt is locked tight. This is easily done on a Boxster - wind the backrest further back than you need it, sharply yank the belt so it locks then wind the backrest forwards.
.. well up to a point but the 986 sports seats need to be pretty much all the way back & down to work for me. I have the Sparcos already, so for the cost of some brackets it's a tremendous improvement. Removing that layer of padding, + the extra support is a much better setup for my car on the road - it's an occasional car, not a daily commuter car, and I think it's better connected this way.
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