I ve finally found my ideal drivers car
Discussion
After lots and I mean lots of cars and searching for a great drivers car, I think I’ve finally found my ideal car.
Following a spate of fast Caterhams, several fast classics including a genuine mk4 Cobra, Morgans, including the very first Aero and many modded Plus 8s, TVRs, an i8, an AMG GT, I finally got into 911s.
After a 991.2 Carrera S, I went for a GTS and then a 991.1. And although they were great cars, I never fell in love with any of them as there was always something missing. This applies to every car I’ve ever owned, some have been very fast but uninvolving, or stunning to look at but too wide for our roads, or great GT cars but too stiff and harsh over potholes and not proper sports cars.
Until my current car, which I have fallen for more than any of the 40 or so other cars I’ve owned. It’s a 997.1 C2 manual, with a rebuilt engine. It’s the right size, handles beautifully, quick enough and just great along our imperfect roads. The suspension is compliant, the steering feel is sublime and it drives like a true sports car should. It’s also a bit of a bargain at the moment.
It’s a genuinely great car and right now I have no desire to replace it, which is also a first! What a brilliant and surprising machine the 997 is.
Following a spate of fast Caterhams, several fast classics including a genuine mk4 Cobra, Morgans, including the very first Aero and many modded Plus 8s, TVRs, an i8, an AMG GT, I finally got into 911s.
After a 991.2 Carrera S, I went for a GTS and then a 991.1. And although they were great cars, I never fell in love with any of them as there was always something missing. This applies to every car I’ve ever owned, some have been very fast but uninvolving, or stunning to look at but too wide for our roads, or great GT cars but too stiff and harsh over potholes and not proper sports cars.
Until my current car, which I have fallen for more than any of the 40 or so other cars I’ve owned. It’s a 997.1 C2 manual, with a rebuilt engine. It’s the right size, handles beautifully, quick enough and just great along our imperfect roads. The suspension is compliant, the steering feel is sublime and it drives like a true sports car should. It’s also a bit of a bargain at the moment.
It’s a genuinely great car and right now I have no desire to replace it, which is also a first! What a brilliant and surprising machine the 997 is.
Every year since forever, the next, latest, rarerest, 'mostest limited' edition 911 - GTS, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, R, ST, STD, LGBTQ, whatever - has stolen the limelight.
And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost.
Enjoy!
And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost.
Enjoy!
Digga said:
Every year since forever, the next, latest, rarerest, 'mostest limited' edition 911 - GTS, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, R, ST, STD, LGBTQ, whatever - has stolen the limelight.
And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost.
Enjoy!
100%,the marketing hype sadly puts these in the shadows.And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost.
Enjoy!
Pleased to see its a manual and not a sit and steer auto pdk thingy
I've been lucky enough to drive a whole host of exotica the last few years, some directly back to back with my 'fettled' 996 and the first corner back in the 996 makes me smile/ laugh every time, they are just so good. Some of the aforementioned, a major service probably isnt far off the worth of my 996 
Apropos of this, out of the blue, my brother in law messaged earlier in week that he was getting rid of his Panamera and had specced a new 911. He sent the build for me to look at and it was lovely. C2, 19" wheels - a perfect, sensible, usable and not stupidly expensive daily driver. Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must.
The reason why it’s probably so enjoyable to drive is that’ it’s less than a tenth of the price of a 992.2gt3 so it ends up being less precious and used as intended so even a 986S would give the same amount of pleasure
IMO that’s what a true drivers car should be, something you use all the time and not sat in a garage only to come out when the sun is shining for cars and coffee.
Cars like the 997.2 GT3/RS have climbed so high in value that they are bought by “collectors “ and no longer driven which is a real shame. I can see good low miles 997.2 C2 etc (manual) following the same trajectory as cars like the 997.2 we’re common place on the roads and in adds a few years back but sadly no longer and were built in low numbers compared to 991/992 Generations
IMO that’s what a true drivers car should be, something you use all the time and not sat in a garage only to come out when the sun is shining for cars and coffee.
Cars like the 997.2 GT3/RS have climbed so high in value that they are bought by “collectors “ and no longer driven which is a real shame. I can see good low miles 997.2 C2 etc (manual) following the same trajectory as cars like the 997.2 we’re common place on the roads and in adds a few years back but sadly no longer and were built in low numbers compared to 991/992 Generations
The 992 GT3 and probably every 911/GT3 variant after it are and will be supremely competent machines but really have become a bit too GT (and in my opinion too large) and their 911/Sports car DNA only becomes apparent at really high speeds.
Therefore a 997 feels like the perfect sports car in comparison and the last of the 'true' 911's. A COMPACT sports car that handles sublimely and has amazing steering and brake feel - and easily enjoyed at 50/60mph.
The 992 has lost a lot of the 911 DNA, but new car buyers have no choice but to buy it.
Therefore a 997 feels like the perfect sports car in comparison and the last of the 'true' 911's. A COMPACT sports car that handles sublimely and has amazing steering and brake feel - and easily enjoyed at 50/60mph.
The 992 has lost a lot of the 911 DNA, but new car buyers have no choice but to buy it.
Digga said:
Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must.
Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it’s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver’s car.
wax lyrical said:
Therefore a 997 feels like the perfect sports car in comparison and the last of the 'true' 911's. A COMPACT sports car that handles sublimely and has amazing steering and brake feel - and easily enjoyed at 50/60mph.
The 992 has lost a lot of the 911 DNA, but new car buyers have no choice but to buy it.
997's are not at all fragile. I have a Gen 2 C4S and use it as a semi-daily. Three times a week commute to work and weekend fun drives and events. About 8k miles per year.
Crumpet said:
Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension.
Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.
Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.
I too have been fortunate enough to own some great cars over the years, including most generations of 911. I am a serial changer and rarely hold on to a car for more than 2 years, but we have had our 997.1 manual for 18 years, which says a lot about how good it is.
And it's a Hartech 4.1 now, which makes it even better.
And it's a Hartech 4.1 now, which makes it even better.
Edited by MinchCS on Saturday 22 August 08:23
Crumpet said:
Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension.
Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.
Maybe running a 997.1 GT3 without, my view is jaundiced, but I was replacing a front splitter every year. That car was extremely low, on Ohlins coil overs and track geo, but there’s always a place. Random, big speed bumps, the ferry ramps in Rotterdam…Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.
another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow
The 997.1 is probably one of the nicest looking 911s, never forget the top gear when they took it to the IOM.
Always shyd away from 997.1 after I had a catastrophic IMS failure on a 986S at very low miles and the bore score stories that followed so always looked towards 997.2, but in hindsight when a low miles 997.1 could be had for £20-25k and then went with a Hartech rebuild/upgrade as and when and if its engine failed it would have been a shrewd purchase.
Always shyd away from 997.1 after I had a catastrophic IMS failure on a 986S at very low miles and the bore score stories that followed so always looked towards 997.2, but in hindsight when a low miles 997.1 could be had for £20-25k and then went with a Hartech rebuild/upgrade as and when and if its engine failed it would have been a shrewd purchase.
Crumpet said:
Digga said:
Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must.
Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.
brownspeed said:
another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow
Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth? 
bennno said:
brownspeed said:
another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow
Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth? Did similar in fatherhood with a 993 / 996 / 997.
Remember going to Mothercare and asked the assistant to check the front trunk on the 993, she outlined we’d need a different car.
What we actually went for was a different push chair retailer that had one that fit the 993 :-)
bennno said:
Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth?
I don't know roughly what its worth, a quick trawl of autotrader shows similar mileage 997s to mine are being pitched at 23k upwards without the Hartech rebuild. @996Type; yeah I considered that route, but the prospect of trying to wrestle a writhing bundle into the back seats fills me with dread. It's probably time for a change* . I'm also doing maybe 2k a year in it, it seems a waste. Of course as soon as I sell- I guarantee the 997 prices will follow the 993 trajectory!!
- to grow up!!
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