Would you trade a 997.2 for a G Series?

[nickpan]

Hi All

I am looking for some guidance!

I am no longer commuting by car which means my 997 now lives in my garage awaiting the occasional weekend drive.

I had a 1978 SC a few years ago that I loved dearly but needed something a little more practical, hence the 997.

Part of me wants to return to the air cooled fold via another G series given my use case nowadays but there is a part of me that thinks the 997 may be good car to hold onto being second generation, a coupe and manual in an interesting colour.

It’s awesome to drive but lacks some of the charm of the older stuff as some of you will know.

I don’t like to think about values too much but I do wonder whether the 997.2 is on an upward trajectory whereas the G series have now done their money and are likely to stagnate. Who knows. The flip side to that is that the G series is already a classic and exempt from tax, mot and various other charges whereas the 997 has a long journey ahead of it to get there.

My Porsche pals think I should hold onto it but I’m interested in the wisdom of my good old friend Pistonheads!

My prior 78 SC was a wonderful car as well!

Cheers

Nick

[Koln-RS]

I get the aircooled thing, and I really like the G-series 911s.

For me, it would need to be a really crisp and sorted 87-89 G50 model - in outstanding condition throughout.
But, I guess, these would be c.£65-90k +, and that’s steep money against a comparable and more useable 997.

Investment-wise, no idea.
Really nice 997s will probably hold value, and desirability may increase as the very latest 992s get, bigger, heavier, more technical and more automated.

But, I also think the best original, unmolested (non-backdated ) aircooleds will always be very collectible.

[Ed.Neumann]

I was offered one for £45k last year, it had 130k miles on it, but was lovely and had so much done including the kidney bowls and an engine rebuild around 20k miles back. The reason being a good friend of mine died and his wife offered it to me for that price.

I was all for it, got super excited, and then thought about a couple of things, firstly I could get her £5-10k more no problem and secondly, did I really want an old air cooled car now?

I had it for a few days an in all honesty it wasn't for me. If I had the money to drive out to the beach in it on a nice summers day and leave it tucked away most of the year I would have bought it. But the reality was I would use it less than the 997, which I don't use enough now. My 996 is still my favourite 911 I have owned, it felt a bit old school but you could hop in it and drive into Europe in comfort and not worry about it having an issue. The clutch is nicer, the power is nicer, even the chassis just feels better.

The G Series is lovely, but would I want it as my only Porsche? No chance. I would be bored after the first few weeks, then you have the upkeep costs on a car you are hardly using as well, not for me.


I'm actually going the other way at the moment, thinking of selling my 997 and buying a PDK 718 Cayman and another 996. The cayman would be a car I use all the time and the 99 I wouldn't care if it sat unused for months. It would owe me bugger all.

[Discombobulate]

I did just this. To relive the 80s when I had a 87 3.2 coupe. Suffice to say we still have the 997 and the (second) blue 3.2 is long gone. It felt heavy and slow. I was also lucky enough to have a 1970 2.2s and, for perspective, that is a car I wish I had never sold. Light, deft and, although much slower than the 3.2, it felt quick enough when you wrung its neck.

Edited by Discombobulate on Saturday 8th February 17:11

[Discombobulate]

[blackmamba]

Discombobulate said:

Both lovely, the 2.2S is a very special car indeed.

Back to the OPs question, if you are happy with the 997 and have a good one I would think very hard about swapping for an older G series car. Hard to find a nice one and a lot need a fair bit of work to make really nice. 997.2 is a great allrounder and if you want a bit more character, a good suspension set up and a sporty exhaust will make it a fabulous road car.

[Nick Forest]

I had a 997 C4S and couldn’t get on it with it…Tiptronic to be fair which is not best suited to the car imo. Have a 3.2 now and feels more engaging when giving it some beans

[nickpan]

Nick Forest said:

I had a 997 C4S and couldn’t get on it with it…Tiptronic to be fair which is not best suited to the car imo. Have a 3.2 now and feels more engaging when giving it some beans

That is a beautiful 3.2. Cars like this make me think I am doing the right thing.

That being said - some sound advice above to consider!

Thank you so much all.

[Nick Forest]

nickpan said:

Nick Forest said:

I had a 997 C4S and couldn’t get on it with it…Tiptronic to be fair which is not best suited to the car imo. Have a 3.2 now and feels more engaging when giving it some beans

That is a beautiful 3.2. Cars like this make me think I am doing the right thing.

That being said - some sound advice above to consider!

Thank you so much all.

Thanks..irony is I snapped my Achilles soon after getting and despite surgery and extensive rehab I’ve struggled since then so I’m having to switch back to an automatic but it definitely won’t be a Tiptronic but a 997.2 auto is one option

[Koln-RS]

Discombobulate said:

The G-Series do look sweet, especially narrow-body, no spoiler, no stickers, subtle colour.

[nickpan]

Nick Forest said:

Thanks..irony is I snapped my Achilles soon after getting and despite surgery and extensive rehab I’ve struggled since then so I’m having to switch back to an automatic but it definitely won’t be a Tiptronic but a 997.2 auto is one option

Ah man that’s a shame. She looks like a keeper. Do get in touch if you decide to move her on.

[Nick Forest]

nickpan said:

Nick Forest said:

Thanks..irony is I snapped my Achilles soon after getting and despite surgery and extensive rehab I’ve struggled since then so I’m having to switch back to an automatic but it definitely won’t be a Tiptronic but a 997.2 auto is one option

Ah man that’s a shame. She looks like a keeper. Do get in touch if you decide to move her on.

I’ve pinged you a message

[Orangecurry]

nickpan said:

... awaiting the occasional weekend drive.

nickpan said:

the 997 may be good car to hold onto being second generation, a coupe and manual in an interesting colour.

It’s awesome to drive but lacks some of the charm of the older stuff as some of you will know.

Genuine question - is a manual .2 a rare car, or is it ever going to be?

nickpan said:

My Porsche pals think I should hold onto it but I’m interested in the wisdom of my good old friend Pistonheads!

Porsche pals? Do any of them drive anything older than a 997?

Reading between the lines you want a G-series. Do it - life is too short - I seriously doubt you'd lose money on any air-cooled (unless you buy from a dealer and then want to sell quickly)

[Slippydiff]

Orangecurry said:

It’s awesome to drive but lacks some of the charm of the older stuff as some of you will know.

Genuine question - is a manual .2 a rare car, or is it ever going to be?

Decent, sensible miles C2/C2S manuals are rarer than the equivalent PDK versions, so think of the 997.2 C2 manual as the watercooled equivalent of the 993 in the aircooled world (until Singer brought the 964 to the world's attention and it started to usurp the 993 in popularity) because the 964 quickly went on to become last air-cooled car that looked like a proper 911, but for many the 993 is still considered the best air-cooled 911 because it was the last of the line.

The 997.2 is less afflicted by engine woes and whilst not as visceral as the 997.1, is still far more analogue than the equivalent 991.1/2, and they're a good steer.

So yes, the manual 2WD 997.2 are fairly rare and I suspect will remain sought after by the cognoscenti

[Venosta]

Slippydiff said:

Decent, sensible miles C2/C2S manuals are rarer than the equivalent PDK versions, so think of the 997.2 C2 manual as the watercooled equivalent of the 993 in the aircooled world (until Singer brought the 964 to the world's attention and it started to usurp the 993 in popularity) because the 964 quickly went on to become last air-cooled car that looked like a proper 911, but for many the 993 is still considered the best air-cooled 911 because it was the last of the line.

The 997.2 is less afflicted by engine woes and whilst not as visceral as the 997.1, is still far more analogue than the equivalent 991.1/2, and they're a good steer.

So yes, the manual 2WD 997.2 are fairly rare and I suspect will remain sought after by the cognoscenti

It's interesting you say the 997.2 is less visceral than than 997. 1. I remember thinking that when driving them at the time but couldn't quite understand it. Later car was a step towards 991 in that respect but 991 had longer wheelbase, engine moved forward, and electric steering to credit/blame for that.

I remember a week driving a 997.2 Turbo S which I had looked forward to immensely but found very clinical, in hindsight not far off the 991.1 turbo S.

What engineering changes were there between 997.1 and 2 to make them less visceral? Engine changed, but what else? Would love to know

[Mr Fix It]

Nick Forest said:

Thanks..irony is I snapped my Achilles soon after getting and despite surgery and extensive rehab I’ve struggled since then so I’m having to switch back to an automatic but it definitely won’t be a Tiptronic but a 997.2 auto is one option

Would it not be better to keep the car and get the Achilles fixed!

[Nick Forest]

Mr Fix It said:

Nick Forest said:

Thanks..irony is I snapped my Achilles soon after getting and despite surgery and extensive rehab I’ve struggled since then so I’m having to switch back to an automatic but it definitely won’t be a Tiptronic but a 997.2 auto is one option

Would it not be better to keep the car and get the Achilles fixed!

The Achilles has been fixed via surgery but it’s a long recovery and you’re not guaranteed that it’ll get back to 100%, especially if you’re getting on a bit (I’m 65 so things take longer to heal or don’t heal at all sometimes!) - Academic now as first person who saw the car bought it so I will be looking for something to fill the gap in due course…

[Discombobulate]

Venosta said:

It's interesting you say the 997.2 is less visceral than than 997. 1. I remember thinking that when driving them at the time but couldn't quite understand it. Later car was a step towards 991 in that respect but 991 had longer wheelbase, engine moved forward, and electric steering to credit/blame for that.

I remember a week driving a 997.2 Turbo S which I had looked forward to immensely but found very clinical, in hindsight not far off the 991.1 turbo S.

What engineering changes were there between 997.1 and 2 to make them less visceral? Engine changed, but what else? Would love to know

The engine (and exhaust) account for the difference.

[Venosta]

Interesting about the engine and exhaust accounting for the difference. What about the suspension and steering? Were there any changes? It’s a long time ago now, but I do remember feeling that the Gen 2 Turbos were both more clinical and more competent than the earlier ones – those two qualities often seem to go together

[f6box]

Well, .2 PASM was certainly revised (added a multi-axis accelerometer for starters) and I recall mention at the time of the steering rack assistance having revised valving. Perhaps the sound deadening was refined, too?

But I think all the suspension arms and bushes etc were carried over. That said, details like bushings are the kind of thing that get revised on an ongoing basis without necessarily being announced. Pretty sure Porsche itself supplies the same arms for both .1 and .2 models and as the cars age what's available now is arguably more important than what was fitted from new.

I think Porsche supplies the same springs across .1 and .2 models, too (Carreras, at least), and dampers. I think in reality the changes were few. But a more mechanical sounding powertrain can go a long way to making a car feel more raw and engaging.