Long term ownership from the 997 to the 991-NA-Water Cooled
Discussion
Hi Chaps
I am interested to hear from anyone who has had long term ownership of a 997 to 991.
By long term ownership I am looking at a minimum of 5 years and mileage covered of over 30K (so ignore original mileage and just comment on mileage covered during ownership....unless bought new). I have a 991 and I am interested to understand the reality of long term ownership of these cars.
The reason for this topic is harking back to old days of car ownership. If we go back to the 80s and 90s when our parents owned cars I recall them holding onto their cars for years. My Dad had a Mercedes and Range Rover which he ran for nearly 2 decades. My father in law owned a Mercedes which he had for at least 30 years (he bought it new) and several others after that which he ran for at least a decade.
We don’t do that in our generation (45 and up). We have been sold into the American consumption theory and frequently trade in (I am just as guilty). However we have reached the cliff edge where the performance on offer simply cannot be appreciated on public roads. And I for one am not venturing to a track.
So curious to hear the experience of any long term owners. What has it been like (apart from the savings) and any recommendations? Also is there anyone out there who has had long term ownership of a 991.1 GT3. I ask because the cars appear to be flipped shortly after purchase or parked and sold a few years later with little to no mileage on the clock (yes the E/F/G series engine issues are well documented).
I am interested to hear from anyone who has had long term ownership of a 997 to 991.
By long term ownership I am looking at a minimum of 5 years and mileage covered of over 30K (so ignore original mileage and just comment on mileage covered during ownership....unless bought new). I have a 991 and I am interested to understand the reality of long term ownership of these cars.
The reason for this topic is harking back to old days of car ownership. If we go back to the 80s and 90s when our parents owned cars I recall them holding onto their cars for years. My Dad had a Mercedes and Range Rover which he ran for nearly 2 decades. My father in law owned a Mercedes which he had for at least 30 years (he bought it new) and several others after that which he ran for at least a decade.
We don’t do that in our generation (45 and up). We have been sold into the American consumption theory and frequently trade in (I am just as guilty). However we have reached the cliff edge where the performance on offer simply cannot be appreciated on public roads. And I for one am not venturing to a track.
So curious to hear the experience of any long term owners. What has it been like (apart from the savings) and any recommendations? Also is there anyone out there who has had long term ownership of a 991.1 GT3. I ask because the cars appear to be flipped shortly after purchase or parked and sold a few years later with little to no mileage on the clock (yes the E/F/G series engine issues are well documented).
65k and 15 years for our 997 4s.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
Hi, I assume your 997 is a Gen 1? O
Discombobulate said:
65k and 15 years for our 997 4s.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
Discombobulate said:
65k and 15 years for our 997 4s.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
FrancisA said:
Discombobulate said:
65k and 15 years for our 997 4s.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
FrancisA said:
Hi Chaps
I am interested to hear from anyone who has had long term ownership of a 997 to 991.
2007 997 turbo manual owned for 11 years and 40k miles…… it now has 60k miles on the clock. Routine maintenance and replacements. Couple of rads replaced that took stone hits. PCCM+ added. Overall very pleased with it….I am interested to hear from anyone who has had long term ownership of a 997 to 991.
wax lyrical said:
Hi, I assume your 997 is a Gen 1? O
Yes. 2008Discombobulate said:
65k and 15 years for our 997 4s.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
As well as routine maintenance it has cost around 30k for a complete refresh over last few years.
Highlights:
New suspension (arms, dampers, links etc) and DSC (Center Gravity)
Hartech 4.1 with new manifolds, clutch, cats, water pump, tandem pump, oil pump, oil cooler, coolant tank and lines - and everything else they found “while in there”
Trigger’s broom and a keeper.
I would not own a 991.1 GT3 long term….the engine issue is a complete unknown in th long term and you will be on your own once the cars get past 15 years as that’s the limit for the Porsche Warranty.
If it’s a road car I’d have a 997 GTS Manual, I owned one for six years. Currently own a 991.2 GT3 which I bought new in May ‘18.
GTS can be driven harder on the road because it doesn’t catapult you at the horizon as quickly. The manual box and Poerkit engine (has a better top end that the standard Carrera S engine) in the GTS are a wonderful combination
If it’s a road car I’d have a 997 GTS Manual, I owned one for six years. Currently own a 991.2 GT3 which I bought new in May ‘18.
GTS can be driven harder on the road because it doesn’t catapult you at the horizon as quickly. The manual box and Poerkit engine (has a better top end that the standard Carrera S engine) in the GTS are a wonderful combination
c4sman said:
I don’t hit your mileage criteria but 997 GTS manual, owned 10.5 years and I have covered 15k miles (28k total). Front heat exchanges replaced recently but not a lot else other than routine servicing and maintenance. Ready for another 10 years
What year is the car?This gives me a perspective on the long term ownership of these cars.
Cheib said:
I would not own a 991.1 GT3 long term….the engine issue is a complete unknown in th long term and you will be on your own once the cars get past 15 years as that’s the limit for the Porsche Warranty.
If it’s a road car I’d have a 997 GTS Manual, I owned one for six years. Currently own a 991.2 GT3 which I bought new in May ‘18.
GTS can be driven harder on the road because it doesn’t catapult you at the horizon as quickly. The manual box and Poerkit engine (has a better top end that the standard Carrera S engine) in the GTS are a wonderful combination
I have to agree with your point about long term ownership of the GT3. If it’s a road car I’d have a 997 GTS Manual, I owned one for six years. Currently own a 991.2 GT3 which I bought new in May ‘18.
GTS can be driven harder on the road because it doesn’t catapult you at the horizon as quickly. The manual box and Poerkit engine (has a better top end that the standard Carrera S engine) in the GTS are a wonderful combination
Grantstown said:
Surely there will be a good aftermarket solution for a .1 GT3. The car’s too good for them to become worthless. Places like Hartech will surely be able to do a top end rebuild and engineer in more reliability.
At what cost though? Prior to owning a Porsche I only ever bought Mercs and I had never heard of engine rebuilds. It seems to be a Porsche thing. Not sure why. Is it the boxer configuration? Happy to be educated by anyone who is familiar with this.
Grantstown said:
Surely there will be a good aftermarket solution for a .1 GT3. The car’s too good for them to become worthless. Places like Hartech will surely be able to do a top end rebuild and engineer in more reliability.
I don’t know enough about engines to know if it is possible to rectify what seems to be a fundamental design flaw. Look at how many iterations of the engine Porsche have come up with. I think I’ve seen mentioned somewhere that even the latest generation have had failures ? That could be wrong thought.I am sure that Hartech or someone like them will come up with something but I’d imagine they’ll only start doing that work when cars are out of warranty ?
FrancisA said:
c4sman said:
I don’t hit your mileage criteria but 997 GTS manual, owned 10.5 years and I have covered 15k miles (28k total). Front heat exchanges replaced recently but not a lot else other than routine servicing and maintenance. Ready for another 10 years
What year is the car?This gives me a perspective on the long term ownership of these cars.
Very little has broken or worn out, I’ve done one track day and it held up very well for a non GT car. As a road going 911 with enough power and excitement but comfy ride I can’t find anything better for today’s congested roads. I think 400 bhp is a sweet spot. The only mods I made many years ago were a sharkwerks centre exhaust bypass (the standard fit PSE is still a little restrained) and I have the DSC PASM module on standard settings which has improved ride quality and made sport mode much more usable. I also have a centre lock wrench set up in the frunk that have written about here before so I’m self sufficient in removing the wheels.
That’s it. I’ve had a 987 Boxter S, 997.1 C2S coupe, 997.1 C4S Cab, 997.1 Turbo Coupe and 997.1 Turbo Cab but found a sweet spot in the GTS which is why it stuck.
I had a 2005 997.1 2S for three years & about 15k miles, I’ve currently got a 2016 991.2 4S & covered about 17k miles in it. In my view the overall mileage of the respective cars is important to know.
I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
N111BJG said:
I had a 2005 997.1 2S for three years & about 15k miles, I’ve currently got a 2016 991.2 4S & covered about 17k miles in it. In my view the overall mileage of the respective cars is important to know.
I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
That seems a lot for 3 years of ownership. What went wrong?I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
ellroy said:
991.1 GTS, just under 5 yrs, and iirc 25k.
Nothing but standard maintenance/tyres if one discounts the suicidal pheasant that took out the bumper.
I was advised by a friend to stick with the 991.1 and avoid the .2 because of the NA engine and apparently those engines are supposed to be reliable. Good to hear that you have only had standard maintenance. Nothing but standard maintenance/tyres if one discounts the suicidal pheasant that took out the bumper.
FrancisA said:
N111BJG said:
I had a 2005 997.1 2S for three years & about 15k miles, I’ve currently got a 2016 991.2 4S & covered about 17k miles in it. In my view the overall mileage of the respective cars is important to know.
I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
That seems a lot for 3 years of ownership. What went wrong?I bought the 997 in 2018 at 50k miles knowing it had bore scoring issues which was sorted by a Hartech rebuild, it also needed cross over water pipes, new bushes and brake lines. That cost about £13k to sort out. It suffered a broken rear spring and needed new brake discs.
I bought the 991 in 2021 at 24k miles. It has a full Porsche warranty & has been serviced twice, overall maintenance & warranty has cost about £4,500 in the three years. One odd thing is that the previous owner had driven in a manner so the brake discs filled with brake dust that filled the vent holes. The discs are very expensive & not very worn, so the holes were drilled out. Turbo failure is a thing on these cars but mine has not suffered.
Service in 2022 - £1555
Service in 2024 - £1684 (got a discount for being a repeat customer & replacement coil packs sorted under warranty)
2024 Warranty extension - £1100
Plus
2023 Drill out brake discs + new pads - £700
2023 Non scheduled check over & oil change prior to 'Autobahn' holiday - £300
2024 £600 cost to replace rear camera loom as mice ate through it !
I have almost worn out the rear tyres that were nearly new when I bought it, I've held off until Black Friday, but I expect they'll be around £750.
The services have been done by an OPC, the rest by a specialist who recommends that I keep the warranty going.
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