997 purchasing - what's the wiser route?

[s94wht]

Let's say there are 3 potential purchases of different mileages, prices and history, and not worry about the spec for now. The options are

• The highest-priced option, call it £32k, which has 80k miles on, and has had an engine rebuild
• The mid-priced option, call it £28k, which has 40k miles on, with no engine rebuild
• The lowest-priced option, £23k, which has 120k miles and has had a rebuild

Which would you be going for, assuming they are all of the same spec?

[LastPoster]

Who rebuilt the engine?

[maz8062]

Option 3 or a 991 for £32k

[s94wht]

LastPoster said:

Who rebuilt the engine?

Let's say it was a reputable place, Hartech or RPM

[IMI A]

I'd get the £28k one borescoped and if clear buy that. If you drive them hard after warming up and take them on a few track days every year m97 engines tend to last longer. Labouring the engine and short journeys does them no favours at all. also the 3.6 less likely to score than the 3.8. If your engine does go I'd perfer to spec the rebuild myself.

You could always go for a gen 2 DFI like this. Even if it ever needs a rebuild I hear the Hartech 4.2 conversion on these amazing and a bit more exciting than the rebuilds they do on the gen 1. Owned one its as quick as a 997 GT3 and fair bit qucker than the gen 1. Gen 1 does sound better.

2012 61 reg
PDK
3.8
4S

£28 grand

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286099439423

[freedman]

maz8062 said:

Option 3 or a 991 for £32k

Can you show me a 991 for £32k?

Just under £40k is the current bottom of the market for a base car with high miles. There area couple for c £36k with well over 100k miles miles in a terrible colour on eBay

Edited by freedman on Tuesday 15th October 07:14

[s94wht]

Appreciate the responses. I had typed out a response before but somehow had not managed to send it.

This would be a daily driver with short journeys involved, so perhaps a rebuilt engine is the better route?

There is actually a gen 2 car out there, manual C2S which is what I'm after, which seems ideal apart from the grey/black two-tone interior (probably a stupid thing to reject a car for tbh)

I know I said don't worry about spec, but now let's get a little more specific. I'd be looking for a manual C2S. Colour doesn't really matter but would prefer a black interior. The plan would be a long-term ownership with gradual upgrades.

[VeeReihenmotor6]

Personally, with that budget and daily driver needs I'd get a 997.2 as they are in your budget, perhaps spec being a compromise. Most 997.1s have the rebuild potential "priced in" so unless your can get the creme de la creme Hartech/RPM build on a 997.1 for less than a 997.2 I wouldn't bother on hassle factor/buyers remorse later down the line. They are too close in price in my eyes. Though you didn't ask, a 996 is a different matter as they are much cheaper to buy and rebuilt one can be had for 987.2 Cayman money.

Edit to add a 997.2 will always maintain a higher price. It doesn't have the mass borescare/IMS issues pinning it's price back. If you ever needed to rebuild a 997.2 you'll be adding on an already strong price whereas the general 997.1 market will be pinned back for many years until most of them have been rebuilt and it's no longer an issue spoken about anymore i.e. a 30 year old car having an engine build is par for the course so won't affect it's value so much. A 5-15 year old car with low miles as we have seen with the 997.1s over the last 15 years will affect their ceiling price.

Edited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 15th October 12:08

[stuckmojo]

maz8062 said:

Option 3 or a 991 for £32k

Agreed.

[LastPoster]

s94wht said:

Appreciate the responses. I had typed out a response before but somehow had not managed to send it.

This would be a daily driver with short journeys involved, so perhaps a rebuilt engine is the better route?

There is actually a gen 2 car out there, manual C2S which is what I'm after, which seems ideal apart from the grey/black two-tone interior (probably a stupid thing to reject a car for tbh)



I know I said don't worry about spec, but now let's get a little more specific. I'd be looking for a manual C2S. Colour doesn't really matter but would prefer a black interior. The plan would be a long-term ownership with gradual upgrades.

On that basis I think I would buy the one with Hartech engine rebuild. If you acknowledge there will be ongoing maintenance/upgrade costs then £15k or so is easier to stomach over 4/5 years rather than all in one go

[freedman]

stuckmojo said:

Agreed.

Go on then,

Please show me the choice of 991's available at £32k

[andyglos]

Cheapest one I can see on Autotrader is

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...

Curious to find where there is a solid one at £32k? 🤔

[freedman]

andyglos said:

Cheapest one I can see on Autotrader is

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...

Curious to find where there is a solid one at £32k? ??

Thats Cat D, so whilst a lovely loking car, not representative

There are a couple on e bay at £36/37k, but with well over 100k miles, base spec and horrible colour

[997_Sussex]

I might be letting my 997 go. Basalt Black, C2S, 3.6 Manual, 71k.

Suspension rebuild by FGP
A/C Condensors by FGP
New tyres all round, front discs and pads
Front coolant hoses etc
PCCM+
Sports Seats
Major service + spark plugs by Precision Porsche 2k ago

All done in last 12 months.

£26k

Drop me a PM if interested.

[freedman]

997_Sussex said:

I might be letting my 997 go. Basalt Black, C2S, 3.6 Manual, 71k.

S, but 3.6?

[997_Sussex]

Typo apologies. Base Carerra C2, 3.6.

[andyglos]

freedman said:

Thats Cat D, so whilst a lovely loking car, not representative

There are a couple on e bay at £36/37k, but with well over 100k miles, base spec and horrible colour

Yep that’s why I mentioned a solid car

[Crudeoink]

VeeReihenmotor6 said:

Personally, with that budget and daily driver needs I'd get a 997.2 as they are in your budget, perhaps spec being a compromise. Most 997.1s have the rebuild potential "priced in" so unless your can get the creme de la creme Hartech/RPM build on a 997.1 for less than a 997.2 I wouldn't bother on hassle factor/buyers remorse later down the line. They are too close in price in my eyes. Though you didn't ask, a 996 is a different matter as they are much cheaper to buy and rebuilt one can be had for 987.2 Cayman money.

Edit to add a 997.2 will always maintain a higher price. It doesn't have the mass borescare/IMS issues pinning it's price back. If you ever needed to rebuild a 997.2 you'll be adding on an already strong price whereas the general 997.1 market will be pinned back for many years until most of them have been rebuilt and it's no longer an issue spoken about anymore i.e. a 30 year old car having an engine build is par for the course so won't affect it's value so much. A 5-15 year old car with low miles as we have seen with the 997.1s over the last 15 years will affect their ceiling price.

Edited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 15th October 12:08

Interesting, I wonder if we'll see the 997's numbers dwindle as more get uneconomical to repair, pushing up the values of those left?

[Ed.Neumann]

Who really knows what is best, they are now saying the 997.2 is starting to have its own problems, and working on them is harder than on the earlier cars.

I wouldn't pay a massive premium for one, not now.

The US engine guys, like Jake Raby, are saying the 997.1 is the last car they would buy that is old and higher mileage.


Maybe their fuel is not as good as ours and we won't get as many issues? But the DFI engines are having more and more issues as they age.


https://lnengineering.com/products/watercooled-por...


Might just be best to buy a 997.1 and keep the money back in case it needs doing.

I do think the 9A1 engines have less issues, but only time will tell. I remember people saying that the 3.6 didn't really have issues, and as time has passed that is no longer the case.

A 997.2 at £30k compared to £20-25k for a 887.1 maybe, but not £40k.


The thing is, as they cars now hit 20 years old, there can be so much more than just engine issues to open your wallet.

Some are now needing the suspension refreshing for the second time, coolant pipes and all the other stuff that cars of this age need doing too.


We are getting to the point where the tatty ones will get really cheap and the good ones will start to climb, they always do.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Tuesday 15th October 20:37

[Crudeoink]

Ed.Neumann said:

Who really knows what is best, they are now saying the 997.2 is starting to have its own problems, and working on them is harder than on the earlier cars.

I wouldn't pay a massive premium for one, not now.

The US engine guys, like Jake Raby, are saying the 997.1 is the last car they would buy that is old and higher mileage.


Maybe their fuel is not as good as ours and we won't get as many issues? But the DFI engines are having more and more issues as they age.


https://lnengineering.com/products/watercooled-por...


Might just be best to buy a 997.1 and keep the money back in case it needs doing.

I do think the 9A1 engines have less issues, but only time will tell. I remember people saying that the 3.6 didn't really have issues, and as time has passed that is no longer the case.

A 997.2 at £30k compared to £20-25k for a 887.1 maybe, but not £40k.


The thing is, as they cars now hit 20 years old, there can be so much more than just engine issues to open your wallet.

Some are now needing the suspension refreshing for the second time, coolant pipes and all the other stuff that cars of this age need doing too.


We are getting to the point where the tatty ones will get really cheap and the good ones will start to climb, they always do.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Tuesday 15th October 20:37

Interesting read. I was under the impression Baz at Hartech struggled to find a 9a1 engine with problems. There's a post as recent as April 2023 where he said he gave up the search and ended up buying a high milage example instead.
https://911uk.com/threads/found-our-gen-2-3-8-manu...

I suppose any engine can bore score and perhaps the rare cases of 9a1 bore score are down to bad luck or hard driving from stone cold ?