Things to consider for 95k mile 997
Discussion
Hello all. I am currently looking at a 2005 3.6 997.
It's done 95k miles. It does have the service stamps in the book and has had the ims replaced. I'd normally discount it but it's in a spec I like. Any thoughts? Am I mad for considering it and will it be a massive money pit or are the more used examples more likely to keep going rather than a infrequently used garage queen.
Thanks for any points raised.
Ben
It's done 95k miles. It does have the service stamps in the book and has had the ims replaced. I'd normally discount it but it's in a spec I like. Any thoughts? Am I mad for considering it and will it be a massive money pit or are the more used examples more likely to keep going rather than a infrequently used garage queen.
Thanks for any points raised.
Ben
It depends on current condition. Strongly recommend a PPI.
Is it a manual or a Tip?
If things like suspension; shocks, arms, bushes haven’t been touched since it rolled out the factory then it would be due refreshing. This could easily be £5-6k (based on experience).
Things like corroded A/C condensers, that’s £1k.
Brakes? £500 an axle
Tyres? Sam again
Coolant pipes front a rear? Fronts will be about £1k rears closer to £2k.
Tandem pump? Water pump?
Check the service history and invoices. Usually if the car has a good MOT History and has the service book to back it up it’s probably a good car.
IMS is one thing, but serviceable parts like the above soon add up.
In my first year, I’ve spent just under £8k getting up to scratch, although some was elective OCD things.
Don’t want to put you off and if you can spanner savings can be made on labour!!
Oh, post the link too!
Is it a manual or a Tip?
If things like suspension; shocks, arms, bushes haven’t been touched since it rolled out the factory then it would be due refreshing. This could easily be £5-6k (based on experience).
Things like corroded A/C condensers, that’s £1k.
Brakes? £500 an axle
Tyres? Sam again
Coolant pipes front a rear? Fronts will be about £1k rears closer to £2k.
Tandem pump? Water pump?
Check the service history and invoices. Usually if the car has a good MOT History and has the service book to back it up it’s probably a good car.
IMS is one thing, but serviceable parts like the above soon add up.
In my first year, I’ve spent just under £8k getting up to scratch, although some was elective OCD things.
Don’t want to put you off and if you can spanner savings can be made on labour!!
Oh, post the link too!
I agree with all the above and definitely do not be put off by a high-miles car as long as it's been serviced and maintained well - ideally by an enthusiast. Get a really good PPI, ideally with borescope inspection of the cylinders.
I'd rather have a 997 that's been used regularly and driven rather than one that been sitting around for a couple of weeks at a time.
Obviously get it at the 'right' price, as the market does not value high miles cars - so you're in a good position to bargain.
I'd rather have a 997 that's been used regularly and driven rather than one that been sitting around for a couple of weeks at a time.
Obviously get it at the 'right' price, as the market does not value high miles cars - so you're in a good position to bargain.
Honestly my friend, don’t ask questions about these cars on forums. Do your own research and go in with your eyes wide open. Forums will scare you no end, they’ll say this, that, scaremongering, PPI, bore score, yada yada.
Trust me, if you take all of the advice that you get on forums, you can still get a car that has engine issues, gearbox issues, coolant pipe issues, brake issues, whatever. The car you’re looking at is nearly 20 years old, it’s is old, it’ll have parts that may need replacing or not. Any 20 year old car will have issues especially performance cars. You decide and good luck.
Trust me, if you take all of the advice that you get on forums, you can still get a car that has engine issues, gearbox issues, coolant pipe issues, brake issues, whatever. The car you’re looking at is nearly 20 years old, it’s is old, it’ll have parts that may need replacing or not. Any 20 year old car will have issues especially performance cars. You decide and good luck.
maz8062 said:
Honestly my friend, don’t ask questions about these cars on forums. Do your own research and go in with your eyes wide open. Forums will scare you no end, they’ll say this, that, scaremongering, PPI, bore score, yada yada.
Trust me, if you take all of the advice that you get on forums, you can still get a car that has engine issues, gearbox issues, coolant pipe issues, brake issues, whatever. The car you’re looking at is nearly 20 years old, it’s is old, it’ll have parts that may need replacing or not. Any 20 year old car will have issues especially performance cars. You decide and good luck.
That's fair and I'm sure OP is going in eyes open buying a 20 year old Porsche. But I think calling out bore score as a specific thing to check is fair, the rest is just standard wear and tear for an older car, engine rebuilds are not!Trust me, if you take all of the advice that you get on forums, you can still get a car that has engine issues, gearbox issues, coolant pipe issues, brake issues, whatever. The car you’re looking at is nearly 20 years old, it’s is old, it’ll have parts that may need replacing or not. Any 20 year old car will have issues especially performance cars. You decide and good luck.
I'm reasonably handy on the spanners. I work in design now but was a Tech in the mod.
I've had a look at the parts and they are more than for a white goods car but not ridiculous.
I'm aware I need to be careful and look for the obvious issues. 3.6 seem a better engine than 3.8? Maybe less stressed.
Hear you on the scare stories. A bad engine is not great but doable. Get hartec to do the liners etc and rebuild with new bearings etc.
Thanks for the replys. I'm more familiar with classics and light commercials from a technical point of view.
I do wonder if a frequently used car is better than one that's been stood about. Or that's what I hope for anyway
I've had a look at the parts and they are more than for a white goods car but not ridiculous.
I'm aware I need to be careful and look for the obvious issues. 3.6 seem a better engine than 3.8? Maybe less stressed.
Hear you on the scare stories. A bad engine is not great but doable. Get hartec to do the liners etc and rebuild with new bearings etc.
Thanks for the replys. I'm more familiar with classics and light commercials from a technical point of view.
I do wonder if a frequently used car is better than one that's been stood about. Or that's what I hope for anyway
Six years ago I bought and still own an early 997 3.8 with 72k miles on the clock. I've added 10k and have had lots of fun with the car. But I went in a little naive and was slightly over-awed by the prospect of owning a 911.
All I would say is, go in with your eyes open. Forget the badge - there are lots for sale, and they are old cars (mine is 20). They have all the usual things to worry about as other old cars plus some of their own. The engines can and do go wrong, but forgetting that that there are many other areas that it's worth having checked before you buy via a PPI.
Mine came with stacks of paperwork and had, in my opinion, been well maintained. Still, in the first couple of years I had the suspension refreshed all around, all the AC components replaced, coolant hoses replaced (engine out job), a new clutch, new gear linkage cables, the list goes on. They are lovely cars but investing in a PPI is very sensible IMO.
All I would say is, go in with your eyes open. Forget the badge - there are lots for sale, and they are old cars (mine is 20). They have all the usual things to worry about as other old cars plus some of their own. The engines can and do go wrong, but forgetting that that there are many other areas that it's worth having checked before you buy via a PPI.
Mine came with stacks of paperwork and had, in my opinion, been well maintained. Still, in the first couple of years I had the suspension refreshed all around, all the AC components replaced, coolant hoses replaced (engine out job), a new clutch, new gear linkage cables, the list goes on. They are lovely cars but investing in a PPI is very sensible IMO.
Benspickup said:
I'm reasonably handy on the spanners. I work in design now but was a Tech in the mod.
I've had a look at the parts and they are more than for a white goods car but not ridiculous.
I'm aware I need to be careful and look for the obvious issues. 3.6 seem a better engine than 3.8? Maybe less stressed.
Hear you on the scare stories. A bad engine is not great but doable. Get hartec to do the liners etc and rebuild with new bearings etc.
Thanks for the replys. I'm more familiar with classics and light commercials from a technical point of view.
I do wonder if a frequently used car is better than one that's been stood about. Or that's what I hope for anyway
Sounds like you know what you're getting yourself in for, good luck they are lovely cars! The engine is a little unfairly maligned, it's smooth, powerful and makes a great noise!I've had a look at the parts and they are more than for a white goods car but not ridiculous.
I'm aware I need to be careful and look for the obvious issues. 3.6 seem a better engine than 3.8? Maybe less stressed.
Hear you on the scare stories. A bad engine is not great but doable. Get hartec to do the liners etc and rebuild with new bearings etc.
Thanks for the replys. I'm more familiar with classics and light commercials from a technical point of view.
I do wonder if a frequently used car is better than one that's been stood about. Or that's what I hope for anyway
Whilst it's nothing compared to engine checks, have a look at the windscreen. Many of these have had a Fuyao (or Pilkington) replacement fitted which aren't very good. Even with the genuine Porsche 'kite' on them, some haven't been fitted well. It's an issue when you want to get it sorted and contrary to those who recommend 'throwing a brick at it' to claim on your insurance, it's just not worth the hassle of arguing to a) get a genuine windscreen and b) have it fitted properly by someone who doesn't know how to.
997_Sussex said:
It depends on current condition. Strongly recommend a PPI.
Is it a manual or a Tip?
If things like suspension; shocks, arms, bushes haven’t been touched since it rolled out the factory then it would be due refreshing. This could easily be £5-6k (based on experience).
Things like corroded A/C condensers, that’s £1k.
Brakes? £500 an axle
Tyres? Sam again
Coolant pipes front a rear? Fronts will be about £1k rears closer to £2k.
Tandem pump? Water pump?
Check the service history and invoices. Usually if the car has a good MOT History and has the service book to back it up it’s probably a good car.
IMS is one thing, but serviceable parts like the above soon add up.
In my first year, I’ve spent just under £8k getting up to scratch, although some was elective OCD things.
Don’t want to put you off and if you can spanner savings can be made on labour!!
Oh, post the link too!
100% this!!!!Is it a manual or a Tip?
If things like suspension; shocks, arms, bushes haven’t been touched since it rolled out the factory then it would be due refreshing. This could easily be £5-6k (based on experience).
Things like corroded A/C condensers, that’s £1k.
Brakes? £500 an axle
Tyres? Sam again
Coolant pipes front a rear? Fronts will be about £1k rears closer to £2k.
Tandem pump? Water pump?
Check the service history and invoices. Usually if the car has a good MOT History and has the service book to back it up it’s probably a good car.
IMS is one thing, but serviceable parts like the above soon add up.
In my first year, I’ve spent just under £8k getting up to scratch, although some was elective OCD things.
Don’t want to put you off and if you can spanner savings can be made on labour!!
Oh, post the link too!
Been there done it too and agree spannering can save a LOT of money.
Quite happy and confident to do a fair bit of the labour myself to be honest but will need specialist knowledge now and again for sure.
I'm just hopeful it will be more usable and less prone to tine in the garage than my old Alfas.
Manual gearbox only. Does this make any difference to reliability?
Many thanks for all the replys
Ben
I'm just hopeful it will be more usable and less prone to tine in the garage than my old Alfas.
Manual gearbox only. Does this make any difference to reliability?
Many thanks for all the replys
Ben
Benspickup said:
Quite happy and confident to do a fair bit of the labour myself to be honest but will need specialist knowledge now and again for sure.
I'm just hopeful it will be more usable and less prone to tine in the garage than my old Alfas.
Manual gearbox only. Does this make any difference to reliability?
Many thanks for all the replys
Ben
Gearboxes are strong in the manual cars, tiptronic is slow and rubbish and PDK can be temperamental. Manual is the one to go for. shift linkage does wear but upgraded ones are cheap and plentiful.I'm just hopeful it will be more usable and less prone to tine in the garage than my old Alfas.
Manual gearbox only. Does this make any difference to reliability?
Many thanks for all the replys
Ben
997_Sussex said:
^ If it’s a manual 3.6 he might be ok…at least that’s what I’m banking on!
The Gen 1 997 3.6 engine is intrinsically the same as that in the 996.2 (one of the worst offenders when it comes to bore scoring) so it’s just as likely to score as the 3.8 engine …But yes, there is a lot that goes wrong with these cars, so the best thing to do is speak to Baz/Grant at Hartech and ask them what the ratio is between 997 3.6 and 997 3.8 engine bore score issues.
Once you’ve found a car you think fits your criteria, have a PPi carried out by any of the well known and regarded independents and once you have the results, heed the advice of the individual as to whether the car is a good one/and or/if the amount of work required makes its purchase tenable.
Serial 997 owner here (because I love them). And my experience (2 bore scores over 100k in my cars) it that it is not so much if as when. My first one was at just 7500 miles from new (it had the problem when I bought it at a year old from an OPC). Luckily new engine under warranty.
Second one went at 65k. Now a Hartech 4.1 and going great guns.
A clear bore score at 95k just says you are ok for at least the next 5k (probably). So buy with rebuild in mind - or buy a (properly) rebuilt car.
Second one went at 65k. Now a Hartech 4.1 and going great guns.
A clear bore score at 95k just says you are ok for at least the next 5k (probably). So buy with rebuild in mind - or buy a (properly) rebuilt car.
Appricate all the feedback.
It's tempting to get s car with a bad engine and rebuild it but spec wise your going to get what you get I feel. I'd be comfortable with a 10k car with a scored engine and rebuild it but they are few and far between at that price point. Much more and the completed car would be up at 997.2 money which then begs the question of why bother.
It's tempting to get s car with a bad engine and rebuild it but spec wise your going to get what you get I feel. I'd be comfortable with a 10k car with a scored engine and rebuild it but they are few and far between at that price point. Much more and the completed car would be up at 997.2 money which then begs the question of why bother.
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