Would you buy a 997 gen 2 C4S with 120k miles on the clock?
Discussion
...if it had been owned by an enthusiast and meticulously maintained, including the full 12 yr service and a comprehensive 'Centre Gravity' overhaul 3 years ago, when all of this was done:
Full suspension re-fresh including the following;
2 x Front top mounts
2 x front track control arms
2 x Front Inner & Outer track rod ends
2 x Rear Bilstein B4 dampers
2 x Rear track control arms
2 x Rear tow arms
1 x Set Eibach Springs Pro-kit 997 4WD
1 x Set H&R Wheel spacers (7mm front, 15mm rear)
1 x Set New Michelin PS4S tyres 235/35 R19 front, 305/30 R19 rear
1 x Ride height check, Geometry set-up, test drive & handover.
Plus it has a DSC controller fitted (by 9E). It's a 2010 PDK. Black. 4 owners.
Full suspension re-fresh including the following;
2 x Front top mounts
2 x front track control arms
2 x Front Inner & Outer track rod ends
2 x Rear Bilstein B4 dampers
2 x Rear track control arms
2 x Rear tow arms
1 x Set Eibach Springs Pro-kit 997 4WD
1 x Set H&R Wheel spacers (7mm front, 15mm rear)
1 x Set New Michelin PS4S tyres 235/35 R19 front, 305/30 R19 rear
1 x Ride height check, Geometry set-up, test drive & handover.
Plus it has a DSC controller fitted (by 9E). It's a 2010 PDK. Black. 4 owners.
All depends on the price.
What’s the service history like? And the number of owners?
If you’re looking to keep for several years and you do low miles then go for it. Otherwise you’ll take a bath come resale time. This is coming from someone who has sold some high mileage M Cars in the past…
What’s the service history like? And the number of owners?
If you’re looking to keep for several years and you do low miles then go for it. Otherwise you’ll take a bath come resale time. This is coming from someone who has sold some high mileage M Cars in the past…
The price is quite reasonable (taking account of the mileage): £33k. Including an upgraded sport design steering wheel. Full Porsche and Specialist service history. Similar 'normal' miles cars are £40k at the mo.
The car also had paint correction done a couple of years ago, plus ceramic coating treatment. Its black, with black leather.
The car also had paint correction done a couple of years ago, plus ceramic coating treatment. Its black, with black leather.
997_Sussex said:
All depends on the price.
What’s the service history like? And the number of owners?
If you’re looking to keep for several years and you do low miles then go for it. Otherwise you’ll take a bath come resale time. This is coming from someone who has sold some high mileage M Cars in the past…
What’s the service history like? And the number of owners?
If you’re looking to keep for several years and you do low miles then go for it. Otherwise you’ll take a bath come resale time. This is coming from someone who has sold some high mileage M Cars in the past…
Hard to value precisely, but personally I'd want it for substantially less than £33k. The market for a car like that with 120,000 miles is very, very small. Hardly anyone wants one with that kind of mileage, even now.
You could try calling a few well known traders and "offering" them a .2 C4S with that mileage and seeing what they'd roughly pay for it. Very low 20s would be my guess, and if so mid 20s private sale would be about right.
You could try calling a few well known traders and "offering" them a .2 C4S with that mileage and seeing what they'd roughly pay for it. Very low 20s would be my guess, and if so mid 20s private sale would be about right.
Thanks. WBAC are offering £26k, so £30k for a well-looked after car seems reasonable? Especially given all that valuable suspension work that was done fairly recently.
f6box said:
Hard to value precisely, but personally I'd want it for substantially less than £33k. The market for a car like that with 120,000 miles is very, very small. Hardly anyone wants one with that kind of mileage, even now.
You could try calling a few well known traders and "offering" them a .2 C4S with that mileage and seeing what they'd roughly pay for it. Very low 20s would be my guess, and if so mid 20s private sale would be about right.
You could try calling a few well known traders and "offering" them a .2 C4S with that mileage and seeing what they'd roughly pay for it. Very low 20s would be my guess, and if so mid 20s private sale would be about right.
At that mileage I'd be having a good look at regular servicing & seeing if you can gleen any info on the sorts of journeys it's been doing.
If it's pounding up and down the motorway everyday then you'd hope mechanical wear and stressed to be low.
But £33k does feel steep for a car of that age and mileage
If it's pounding up and down the motorway everyday then you'd hope mechanical wear and stressed to be low.
But £33k does feel steep for a car of that age and mileage
wax lyrical said:
Thanks. WBAC are offering £26k, so £30k for a well-looked after car seems reasonable? Especially given all that valuable suspension work that was done fairly recently.
WBAC quote will translate into lower actual payment. Call it £24k, in reality. Would still be interested to know what a specialist would bid on it. Personally, I think anything starting with a '3' is quite a bit too high with that mileage.Also, note that the suspension work is basically half the job done, so the other half of the components are on 120k, and it was three years ago (and how many miles ago?), so again (personally) I wouldn't increase the valuation much if at all on that basis.
Totally buyable, but if you have any thought to resale, it needs to be at the right price to avoid taking a quick bath and / or finding it won't shift at a price that keeps the depreciation hit reasonable. Seller may or may not be at all reaslistic about any of this. They usually aren't.
Thanks for all the input and advice so far - much appreciated!
It's a tricky one. 997 gen 2 prices are very strong and Specialist dealers with similar cars (albeit at half the mileage) are asking £45k.
The suspension work was done only 6k miles ago. Most of the mileage seems to have been done in the car's first 5 years when it was PMD serviced.
Current owner has serviced the car every year at a local Porsche Specialist (Zeffenhaus).
It's a tricky one. 997 gen 2 prices are very strong and Specialist dealers with similar cars (albeit at half the mileage) are asking £45k.
The suspension work was done only 6k miles ago. Most of the mileage seems to have been done in the car's first 5 years when it was PMD serviced.
Current owner has serviced the car every year at a local Porsche Specialist (Zeffenhaus).
wax lyrical said:
The price is quite reasonable (taking account of the mileage): £33k.
Sounds very ambitious to me rather than reasonable!It could be a great car but you'd take a big bath if you bought it for £33k and had to sell it tomorrow.
I wouldn't pay much attention to the ones listed at £45k, that's 991.1 money.
Shaoxter said:
Sounds very ambitious to me rather than reasonable!
It could be a great car but you'd take a big bath if you bought it for £33k and had to sell it tomorrow.
I wouldn't pay much attention to the ones listed at £45k, that's 991.1 money.
Agreed - my man math brought me very close to buying a very similar car and I thought what I'd do when it has 150k miles and I'm bored of it. It could be a great car but you'd take a big bath if you bought it for £33k and had to sell it tomorrow.
I wouldn't pay much attention to the ones listed at £45k, that's 991.1 money.
wax lyrical said:
It's a tricky one. 997 gen 2 prices are very strong and Specialist dealers with similar cars (albeit at half the mileage) are asking £45k.
RSJ in Slough have a gen 2 997 with 72k miles for £36k. It's a manual though & price difference between the PDK & manual is usually £2k. So assume is £38k if it was a PDK. RSJ paint correct all their cars & offer a 12 month in-house warranty.Is the other seller private or trade?
Gut feel is this is still too expensive
SV_WDC said:
wax lyrical said:
It's a tricky one. 997 gen 2 prices are very strong and Specialist dealers with similar cars (albeit at half the mileage) are asking £45k.
RSJ in Slough have a gen 2 997 with 72k miles for £36k. It's a manual though & price difference between the PDK & manual is usually £2k. So assume is £38k if it was a PDK.RSJ paint correct all their cars & offer a 12 month in-house warranty.Is the other seller private or trade?
Gut feel is this is still too expensive
Yeah manual 997.2's command more money then the PDK.
Do you want the AWD?
I would rather buy one with 20-30k miles less RWD for £28k or so.
You could buy one with 90k on it for £27-28k and stick £3k or suspension parts on and leave yourself a buffer and give yourself a few years of free miles compared to the 120k car.
Do you want the AWD?
I would rather buy one with 20-30k miles less RWD for £28k or so.
You could buy one with 90k on it for £27-28k and stick £3k or suspension parts on and leave yourself a buffer and give yourself a few years of free miles compared to the 120k car.
Thanks guys. A lot to think about.
I want a PDK for sure, don’t need 4wd, but it has to be meticulously maintained (unless still under a Porsche warranty). Don’t want to pay more than £40k, even for low mileage - so that limits the cars available. I really don’t like 991’s. They’ve lost some of the 911 dna and character.
A lot of specialist dealers have (2010 and 2011) 997’s that haven’t had the big 12yr service done and they say that it will be ‘done before sale’. I’d rather the previous owner had serviced it properly, on time.
I want a PDK for sure, don’t need 4wd, but it has to be meticulously maintained (unless still under a Porsche warranty). Don’t want to pay more than £40k, even for low mileage - so that limits the cars available. I really don’t like 991’s. They’ve lost some of the 911 dna and character.
A lot of specialist dealers have (2010 and 2011) 997’s that haven’t had the big 12yr service done and they say that it will be ‘done before sale’. I’d rather the previous owner had serviced it properly, on time.
On the face of it that’s a potentially good buy. The geo and suspension mods don’t add value in my opinion unless one is in the know and then lowered suspension, spacers and an expensive geo is not for all tastes.
The mileage is an issue and will be if/when you come to sell it in the future.
Ideally you’d want it for a price starting with a 2
The mileage is an issue and will be if/when you come to sell it in the future.
Ideally you’d want it for a price starting with a 2
wax lyrical said:
Thanks guys. A lot to think about.
I want a PDK for sure, don’t need 4wd, but it has to be meticulously maintained (unless still under a Porsche warranty). Don’t want to pay more than £40k, even for low mileage - so that limits the cars available. I really don’t like 991’s. They’ve lost some of the 911 dna and character.
A lot of specialist dealers have (2010 and 2011) 997’s that haven’t had the big 12yr service done and they say that it will be ‘done before sale’. I’d rather the previous owner had serviced it properly, on time.
I normally say you have far more to worry about on a 15 year old Porsche than whether the 12 year service has been done. I want a PDK for sure, don’t need 4wd, but it has to be meticulously maintained (unless still under a Porsche warranty). Don’t want to pay more than £40k, even for low mileage - so that limits the cars available. I really don’t like 991’s. They’ve lost some of the 911 dna and character.
A lot of specialist dealers have (2010 and 2011) 997’s that haven’t had the big 12yr service done and they say that it will be ‘done before sale’. I’d rather the previous owner had serviced it properly, on time.
Has he done all the weak points on these cars as they get to this age? Things like coolant hoses etc.?
However, the soot build up in the oil on DFI engines is becoming a bit of a problem for these cars, more so as more of them hit higher miles.
Also, in the states they are starting to see quite a few issues with the direct injected cars as they hit 100-120k miles. Timing chain stretch etc.
I know some of the specialists over there, unlike the ones here, like Jake Raby, are now saying they would not own a 911 past 997.1 as they get passed the 100k mile mark, too many issues cropping up, much harder to work on etc.
I take what they say in the States with a pinch of salt, but worth considering.
Quick search...
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/676497-997-2...
SV_WDC said:
RSJ in Slough have a gen 2 997 with 72k miles for £36k. It's a manual though & price difference between the PDK & manual is usually £2k. So assume is £38k if it was a PDK. RSJ paint correct all their cars & offer a 12 month in-house warranty.
Is the other seller private or trade?
Gut feel is this is still too expensive
Is that one ^^^ a C4S? The wide body cars seem to have a premium. ETA or maybe I'm thinking of C4S Targas, which seem to be some of the most expensive 997.2 cars.Is the other seller private or trade?
Gut feel is this is still too expensive
(basic manual 3.6 C2 coupe would be my 997.2 sweet spot)
Edited by braddo on Friday 23 August 11:38
wax lyrical said:
I'm the OP. My alternative at the moment is a 997 c2S PDK, with 73k miles. 2008 though (as opposed to 2010 for the c4S).
Full Porsche and Specialist service history, 2 owner. £34k.
The high mileage c4S owner will accept £29k for his.
Advice?
50k mile difference is a lot on these, unless you are going to do 15k miles a year in it. Full Porsche and Specialist service history, 2 owner. £34k.
The high mileage c4S owner will accept £29k for his.
Advice?
Most end up doing 5k or so, that is 10 years of extra miles.
If it is a .2 and pdk, that would be my choice if, and that is important, everything else checks out.
You need to look at the history, or if there is not a folder detailing everything that has been done get a very good indy inspection.
You can easily spend £5k or or more just getting it right.
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