997 GTS vs 991 C2S
Discussion
Need to brainstorm with some enthusiasts and connoisseurs. I’m about to pull the trigger on my first Porsche. Finally, dream come true. My absolute dream car has always been the 997 GTS. And I might just about be able to afford it. However, I have seen a few 991 C2Ss and both on paper and in person the 991 is quite impressive. As you know, because of technological advances and just the progress of the 911 platform, both models in questions are extremely close in performance (acceleration, top speed, lap times, etc). But they are much harder to compare apples-to-apples in most other aspects. As most would say, the 997 is more analog, truer to the older 911 formula, more compact so a more engaging drive. But the 991 is much more modern, refined and comfortable without being a bloated GT (if you can see past the steering thing). I really can’t decide.
Let me try to get ahead of some of the usual questions:
- what will the car be used for: weekend drives, 1-2 weekly school runs, road trips, all no more than 3-4k miles per year. I guess that favours the 991.
- have I driven any of these: not yet, but I’m sure I’ll love either.
One last thing to consider. I am planning to keep the car indefinitely, maybe for life or until I am unable to drive it. But I’m getting into a somewhat expensive finance deal in the short term until rates come down. So that favours something with a better residual/low depreciation in case I have to sell at any point. So I guess that somewhat favours the GTS because it’s a bit more special.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Let me try to get ahead of some of the usual questions:
- what will the car be used for: weekend drives, 1-2 weekly school runs, road trips, all no more than 3-4k miles per year. I guess that favours the 991.
- have I driven any of these: not yet, but I’m sure I’ll love either.
One last thing to consider. I am planning to keep the car indefinitely, maybe for life or until I am unable to drive it. But I’m getting into a somewhat expensive finance deal in the short term until rates come down. So that favours something with a better residual/low depreciation in case I have to sell at any point. So I guess that somewhat favours the GTS because it’s a bit more special.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
I had a similar decision to make last year.
I went with the 997 GTS. Rarer and less chance of depreciation. Smaller too. The reviews seem to suggest its the last of the 911 'sportscars' before they became GTs and so handles a bit better and is more nimble too maybe.
911s are pretty common so I liked the special wheels and sports seats/Alcantara which sets it apart a little. Overall it seems pretty well built and Im enjoying it so far!
Good luck.
I went with the 997 GTS. Rarer and less chance of depreciation. Smaller too. The reviews seem to suggest its the last of the 911 'sportscars' before they became GTs and so handles a bit better and is more nimble too maybe.
911s are pretty common so I liked the special wheels and sports seats/Alcantara which sets it apart a little. Overall it seems pretty well built and Im enjoying it so far!
Good luck.
I made the same decision when they were new as they were briefly sold in parallel. Drove each back to back twice at the dealer. Bought the GTS as it was noticeably more fun to drive.
Steering felt better, probably as it's hydraulic vs the 991's first gen electric set up. And as mentioned in the post above the whole GTS package looked and felt more special. I took pics of the two side by side. The GTS has way more presence, if that's a consideration.
Think you'd be fine with the GTS for what you have in mind. I had mine for 7 years as our only car and it was near faultless, whereas I gather some of the early 991s had niggling reliability issues.
As ever the best thing to do is test drive both, as you'll notice their different characteristics. And on the subject of test driving - if you don't need rear seats it may also be worth trying a Cayman 4.0 GTS. I had a Boxster 4.0. It's the same weight, dimensions and power as the 997 GTS. You get the 991 era interior and it's a fabulous modern era car all round
Steering felt better, probably as it's hydraulic vs the 991's first gen electric set up. And as mentioned in the post above the whole GTS package looked and felt more special. I took pics of the two side by side. The GTS has way more presence, if that's a consideration.
Think you'd be fine with the GTS for what you have in mind. I had mine for 7 years as our only car and it was near faultless, whereas I gather some of the early 991s had niggling reliability issues.
As ever the best thing to do is test drive both, as you'll notice their different characteristics. And on the subject of test driving - if you don't need rear seats it may also be worth trying a Cayman 4.0 GTS. I had a Boxster 4.0. It's the same weight, dimensions and power as the 997 GTS. You get the 991 era interior and it's a fabulous modern era car all round
I owned a 991.2 GTS (PDK) and currently own a 997 GTS (Manual)
The newer car, for me, just did not feel as mechanical and special. Granted, it is not an apples to apples comparison given the gearbox differences, but the 997 feels the sweet spot of the 911 in my view. Enough good tech to live with day to day, but more involving to drive. I'd often switch off in the 991.2 and could have just as easily been in a sorted Golf or similar (no disrespect to the Golf...) Haven't driven a 991.1, which might feel more involving with the NA engine. You said the 997 GTS has always been a halo car for you. If it were me, I'd stick with that choice.
The newer car, for me, just did not feel as mechanical and special. Granted, it is not an apples to apples comparison given the gearbox differences, but the 997 feels the sweet spot of the 911 in my view. Enough good tech to live with day to day, but more involving to drive. I'd often switch off in the 991.2 and could have just as easily been in a sorted Golf or similar (no disrespect to the Golf...) Haven't driven a 991.1, which might feel more involving with the NA engine. You said the 997 GTS has always been a halo car for you. If it were me, I'd stick with that choice.
Owned a 997 GTS for six years….did have a 991.2 GTS as a loan car when they were new for a couple of days…I also drove a 991 C2S at the PEC. OPC was trying to tempt me. I keep the 997.
There is no right answer because ultimately it is down to what you prefer but I think a 997 GTS will put a smile on your face more often and will give you more of a thrill on those occasions when you are driving the car purely for pleasure. Awesome cars.
There is no right answer because ultimately it is down to what you prefer but I think a 997 GTS will put a smile on your face more often and will give you more of a thrill on those occasions when you are driving the car purely for pleasure. Awesome cars.
I had a 997.2 GTS - which I went to from a 981 Cayman S. I really liked it and intended it to be a keeper. On the right road, there is nothing like it, the steering, the standard fit powerkit made it sound amazing at high revs, it felt like a “real” 911.
But… the PDK was not as good as younger cars, the satnav was “not brilliant”, if you wanted to stream music you needed a funny double cable that probably wouldn’t work with a modern iPhone, and I had a nagging doubt that my particular car had some paint repair secrets.
I replaced it with a new (manual) 991.2T which I personally prefer. I always said that if my GTS had been manual, I’d have kept it though.
The 991 T, to me, strikes a really sweet spot for a usable modern sports car. Now, they are already cheaper than a manual 997GTS - which would basically suggest that the market thinks I’m wrong. :-)
But… the PDK was not as good as younger cars, the satnav was “not brilliant”, if you wanted to stream music you needed a funny double cable that probably wouldn’t work with a modern iPhone, and I had a nagging doubt that my particular car had some paint repair secrets.
I replaced it with a new (manual) 991.2T which I personally prefer. I always said that if my GTS had been manual, I’d have kept it though.
The 991 T, to me, strikes a really sweet spot for a usable modern sports car. Now, they are already cheaper than a manual 997GTS - which would basically suggest that the market thinks I’m wrong. :-)
rob.kellock said:
I had a 997.2 GTS - which I went to from a 981 Cayman S. I really liked it and intended it to be a keeper. On the right road, there is nothing like it, the steering, the standard fit powerkit made it sound amazing at high revs, it felt like a “real” 911.
But… the PDK was not as good as younger cars, the satnav was “not brilliant”, if you wanted to stream music you needed a funny double cable that probably wouldn’t work with a modern iPhone, and I had a nagging doubt that my particular car had some paint repair secrets.
I replaced it with a new (manual) 991.2T which I personally prefer. I always said that if my GTS had been manual, I’d have kept it though.
The 991 T, to me, strikes a really sweet spot for a usable modern sports car. Now, they are already cheaper than a manual 997GTS - which would basically suggest that the market thinks I’m wrong. :-)
The PDK point above is a good one. 997 PDK is definitely slower witted vs 991 onwards so would try it out to make sure you're OK with it before buying if you're considering PDKBut… the PDK was not as good as younger cars, the satnav was “not brilliant”, if you wanted to stream music you needed a funny double cable that probably wouldn’t work with a modern iPhone, and I had a nagging doubt that my particular car had some paint repair secrets.
I replaced it with a new (manual) 991.2T which I personally prefer. I always said that if my GTS had been manual, I’d have kept it though.
The 991 T, to me, strikes a really sweet spot for a usable modern sports car. Now, they are already cheaper than a manual 997GTS - which would basically suggest that the market thinks I’m wrong. :-)
Thanks for commenting on the PDK. Good point indeed. In this case, PDK is a must. I have indeed heard and read that the first PDK was not the sharpest and as a lot of people put it, they had to adjust their driving style to make the most out of it. And then it would be fine. Good food for thought.
The GTSs might be out of budget. Those in budget are too rough or high mileage. I would like to get the Porsche warranty for at least the first 24 months, and that puts them out of budget considering potential repairs to things like suspension.
But if I decide to stick to the 997 gen for the more old-fashioned driving, I might even consider a well-specced C4S for the wider body. I know, I know, plenty are going to say it’s too heavy and stuff, but I just can’t believe 55kg make that much of a diff. And I live in Essex, roads are terrible, I would welcome the added composure.
The GTSs might be out of budget. Those in budget are too rough or high mileage. I would like to get the Porsche warranty for at least the first 24 months, and that puts them out of budget considering potential repairs to things like suspension.
But if I decide to stick to the 997 gen for the more old-fashioned driving, I might even consider a well-specced C4S for the wider body. I know, I know, plenty are going to say it’s too heavy and stuff, but I just can’t believe 55kg make that much of a diff. And I live in Essex, roads are terrible, I would welcome the added composure.
Edited by WickedWizzzard on Tuesday 13th February 10:00
Edited by WickedWizzzard on Tuesday 13th February 10:02
That's not the worst idea in the world. If you want PDK you'll need a 997.2. Think the S version has about 375bhp. The GTS is 400bhp so the difference isn't night and day.
I had a 997.1 C4S before my 997.2 GTS. the GTS was better without doubt but it very definitely didn't shame the C4S and if you get a .2 C4S then it'll be even closer to the GTS.
One further consideration. Unless you really want the wide body on the C2 I'd go 2WD vs 4WD. I found the 2WD more fun, and you're not short of traction with the engine in the rear
I had a 997.1 C4S before my 997.2 GTS. the GTS was better without doubt but it very definitely didn't shame the C4S and if you get a .2 C4S then it'll be even closer to the GTS.
One further consideration. Unless you really want the wide body on the C2 I'd go 2WD vs 4WD. I found the 2WD more fun, and you're not short of traction with the engine in the rear
I was committed to having a manual. Especially in a 911. But the £20k extra I just could not afford.
My auto experience has been in a 1965 Pagoda and a 1981 Porsche 928 so the PDK has obviously been a massive step up. It's certainly not perfect and I notice slight delays/slipping from standstill at times but overall its great as Im in London. Putting it in Sport/+ really makes a difference and I enjoy the flappy paddles. Would still rather a manual but overall I see it as a happy compromise and certainly more suited to London driving.
My auto experience has been in a 1965 Pagoda and a 1981 Porsche 928 so the PDK has obviously been a massive step up. It's certainly not perfect and I notice slight delays/slipping from standstill at times but overall its great as Im in London. Putting it in Sport/+ really makes a difference and I enjoy the flappy paddles. Would still rather a manual but overall I see it as a happy compromise and certainly more suited to London driving.
PDK will be the thing that dates a 997 GTS or 997 C2S so really dilutes the premium you’re paying for an older car (Sat Nav can of course be updated easily if that’s important to you). If you were going manual then for me the 997 GTS is the best of that bunch including the 991 for a weekend and odd weekday car. This year is my 10th anniversary of 997GTS manual coupe ownership and I can easily see me owning it for another 10. Bear in mind my first 4 Porsches were owned for approx 2 years each including 2 997 turbos. That speaks for itself, I’ve found my sweet spot.
I’ve got a lowly 997.1 3.6 that I use for similar trips as you’ve noted in the op. The car is more than enough for the road - if you don’t intend tracking the car, I’d argue that you don’t need anymore than the base with a few choice options and an engine rebuild for the .1’s.
If I were to change it, a GT3 in comfort spec is what I’d go for. Is the S, GTS and turbo that much better in the real world? I’m not sure, but they cost a lot more to run and you can’t drive any faster.
Of the choices above I’d go GTS or save the pennies and buy a 991.1 base with the right options.
If I were to change it, a GT3 in comfort spec is what I’d go for. Is the S, GTS and turbo that much better in the real world? I’m not sure, but they cost a lot more to run and you can’t drive any faster.
Of the choices above I’d go GTS or save the pennies and buy a 991.1 base with the right options.
First Sea Lord said:
That's not the worst idea in the world. If you want PDK you'll need a 997.2. Think the S version has about 375bhp. The GTS is 400bhp so the difference isn't night and day.
I had a 997.1 C4S before my 997.2 GTS. the GTS was better without doubt but it very definitely didn't shame the C4S and if you get a .2 C4S then it'll be even closer to the GTS.
One further consideration. Unless you really want the wide body on the C2 I'd go 2WD vs 4WD. I found the 2WD more fun, and you're not short of traction with the engine in the rear
The difference is even smaller, just 20hp. I know that 4WD might take away some feel and agility. But for a runner along Essex roads in the winter might be a good option. Thanks for the contribution I had a 997.1 C4S before my 997.2 GTS. the GTS was better without doubt but it very definitely didn't shame the C4S and if you get a .2 C4S then it'll be even closer to the GTS.
One further consideration. Unless you really want the wide body on the C2 I'd go 2WD vs 4WD. I found the 2WD more fun, and you're not short of traction with the engine in the rear
c4sman said:
PDK will be the thing that dates a 997 GTS or 997 C2S so really dilutes the premium you’re paying for an older car (Sat Nav can of course be updated easily if that’s important to you). If you were going manual then for me the 997 GTS is the best of that bunch including the 991 for a weekend and odd weekday car. This year is my 10th anniversary of 997GTS manual coupe ownership and I can easily see me owning it for another 10. Bear in mind my first 4 Porsches were owned for approx 2 years each including 2 997 turbos. That speaks for itself, I’ve found my sweet spot.
Yeah, that’s becoming perhaps a bit more of a concern. Has to be PDK though, so that favours the 991I swapped a 2013 991.1 S for a 2011 997GTS. Both pdk.
The 997 is much more special imho and I loved the paired back feel. It seemed better put together. The 991 interior is clipped together and buzzes and rattles. The 997 is screwed!
As a drive the 997 is more raw and interactive.
No brainier for me!
The 997 is much more special imho and I loved the paired back feel. It seemed better put together. The 991 interior is clipped together and buzzes and rattles. The 997 is screwed!
As a drive the 997 is more raw and interactive.
No brainier for me!
jackliebling said:
I swapped a 2013 991.1 S for a 2011 997GTS. Both pdk.
The 997 is much more special imho and I loved the paired back feel. It seemed better put together. The 991 interior is clipped together and buzzes and rattles. The 997 is screwed!
As a drive the 997 is more raw and interactive.
No brainier for me!
Oh that’s interesting, have not heard such feedback about the 991 interior, thanks for sharing. The 997 is much more special imho and I loved the paired back feel. It seemed better put together. The 991 interior is clipped together and buzzes and rattles. The 997 is screwed!
As a drive the 997 is more raw and interactive.
No brainier for me!
Going to see a 997 GTS this week with the intention of buying if nothing too ugly comes up. Has three prev owners and 40k miles. I would be buying from what seems to be a reputable sports and classic cars dealer with impeccable reviews. They have done their own check and offer 6 months warranty. They have shared the checks report and invoice for £4k worth of service and a couple of repairs done to the car for selling. Nothing too serious by the looks of it, things like engine carrier mounts, oil pan gaskets and heat shields.
If a dealer is willing to spend that amount of money on a car for selling (makes sense to hedge their warranty)what concerns me is the condition and care of the car to this point.
Anything particular that I should watch out for? Any red flags?
If a dealer is willing to spend that amount of money on a car for selling (makes sense to hedge their warranty)what concerns me is the condition and care of the car to this point.
Anything particular that I should watch out for? Any red flags?
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