911 buying no history
Discussion
Been offered an 04' 911 40 anniversary. Its done 40k miles but the current owner has had it since 2008 and has only done 5k miles in it. It's only had an oil change in that time. Mot checks out and I know the person so no funny business like clocking etc.
What implications are there for leaving a car sat there for so long with such little use. Also should it have been serviced if it wasn't doing any miles?
What implications are there for leaving a car sat there for so long with such little use. Also should it have been serviced if it wasn't doing any miles?
I think that would a great opportunity to get the car back on the road.
However
IMO
The car now needs a recommission service and build
It’s not just engine oil
All perishables, fuel lines, water hoses, oil lines tyres everything needs to be checked and most probably replaced
Air con lines and rads
Brakes
Rubbers in the suspension
The list goes on
Some bits might be fine hopefully
But I guess a lot will need sorting
And also IMO needs to be done by somebody that really knows what they’re doing
A thorough engine inspection too as the oil in the car now will about as good as water and I wouldn’t want to run the engine on that as engine wear/damage will occur very quickly.
A bloody good independent like RPM, JZM, Hartech etc.
Or just whack some new oil in and off you go and wait for the car tell what it needs. :-)))))
However
IMO
The car now needs a recommission service and build
It’s not just engine oil
All perishables, fuel lines, water hoses, oil lines tyres everything needs to be checked and most probably replaced
Air con lines and rads
Brakes
Rubbers in the suspension
The list goes on
Some bits might be fine hopefully
But I guess a lot will need sorting
And also IMO needs to be done by somebody that really knows what they’re doing
A thorough engine inspection too as the oil in the car now will about as good as water and I wouldn’t want to run the engine on that as engine wear/damage will occur very quickly.
A bloody good independent like RPM, JZM, Hartech etc.
Or just whack some new oil in and off you go and wait for the car tell what it needs. :-)))))
As has been said I would go in eyes wide open. You could very easily spend a five figure sum on that car in the first year of ownership.
If the car has been used regularly and done say two or three drives a year you might get away with a few things being okay but I’d be staggered if you didn’t have some decent size bills.
If the car has been used regularly and done say two or three drives a year you might get away with a few things being okay but I’d be staggered if you didn’t have some decent size bills.
was8v said:
Monch said:
Or just whack some new oil in and off you go and wait for the car tell what it needs. :-)))))
This, its a modern Porsche not a 1960s aston.You are going to want new tyres though.
You’ll very likely need perishables like tyres, brake flexies, engine mounts. I bought my C2 which had only done 6k miles over 8years prior to my ownership, it had been serviced annually. I had it PPId and sorted the bits identified, but within a few months various suspension bits had reared their head. I’ve spent more on it over the last 4years, 12k miles than it cost to buy and it wasn’t a particularly cheap one.
Then it’d want to establish whether the lack of oil changes has done any damage (probably easiest via a boroscope of cylinder walls and analysis of the current oil), and if it has whether the X51 engine complicates the rebuild process. A call to Hartech should sort the last point.
I’d probably only do it if I was planning to keep it for a number of years and put a decent number of miles on it or you’ll really struggle to sell it for strong money.
Then it’d want to establish whether the lack of oil changes has done any damage (probably easiest via a boroscope of cylinder walls and analysis of the current oil), and if it has whether the X51 engine complicates the rebuild process. A call to Hartech should sort the last point.
I’d probably only do it if I was planning to keep it for a number of years and put a decent number of miles on it or you’ll really struggle to sell it for strong money.
Edited by HughG on Thursday 8th February 11:33
HughG said:
You’ll very likely need perishables like tyres, brake flexies, engine mounts.
As with any 20 year old car. My '99 was on its original flexies and mounts and that was a high mile daily.HughG said:
within a few months various suspension bits had reared their head. I’ve spent more on it over the last 4years, 12k miles than it cost to buy and it wasn’t a particularly cheap one.
As with any 20 year old car, you'll be constantly replacing bits and bobs. If you are paying someone to do the work it will cost a lot. As with any 20 year old car unless its been "restored".HughG said:
Then it’d want to establish whether the lack of oil changes has done any damage (probably easiest via a boroscope of cylinder walls and analysis of the current oil),
Its done 5k miles, if the pistons ain't moving the bores ain't scoring.Will be fine, crack on.
was8v said:
HughG said:
You’ll very likely need perishables like tyres, brake flexies, engine mounts.
As with any 20 year old car. My '99 was on its original flexies and mounts and that was a high mile daily.Rubber components don’t like standing still, one that is in use and being flexed and heat cycled will keep more malleability than one which is standing still.
was8v said:
HughG said:
within a few months various suspension bits had reared their head. I’ve spent more on it over the last 4years, 12k miles than it cost to buy and it wasn’t a particularly cheap one.
As with any 20 year old car, you'll be constantly replacing bits and bobs. If you are paying someone to do the work it will cost a lot. As with any 20 year old car unless it’s been "restored".was8v said:
HughG said:
Then it’d want to establish whether the lack of oil changes has done any damage (probably easiest via a boroscope of cylinder walls and analysis of the current oil),
Its done 5k miles, if the pistons ain't moving the bores ain't scoring.Will be fine, crack on.
I think the blocks are the same between the standard 3.6 and the X51, but like I said I would want to check that. The heads, and sump are different, and it has an extra oil pump. It’s not inconceivable a rebuild will be more on this than a standard (non anniversary/X51) car and more likely given its lack of servicing and use. .
Suspect calls for the car to be rebuilt are possibly a touch overstated or at the very least not consistent with the advice that would like be given for cars of similar age that are, in reality, little different.
Look at it this way. Let's say the car had done 10K or 15K miles since 2008 instead of 5K and a book full of stamps for services every other year or even every year, what would really be different? Would people assume such a car needed a major recommissioning?
It would have a few more miles and perhaps fresher oil. But you'd probably still want to change the oil. The suspension etc wouldn't be any different. Nor, really, would things like fuel and brake lines etc.
To put it another way, what's the difference between very, very little use, which by definition applies any low-ish mile car of this age, and very, very, very little use. I'd argue, not much. This car may need quite a bit of work. Or it might not. Just like any 40k mile 911 from 2004. Suspension might be fine. It might not. I think it's pretty hard to know based on the history we have.
Look at it this way. Let's say the car had done 10K or 15K miles since 2008 instead of 5K and a book full of stamps for services every other year or even every year, what would really be different? Would people assume such a car needed a major recommissioning?
It would have a few more miles and perhaps fresher oil. But you'd probably still want to change the oil. The suspension etc wouldn't be any different. Nor, really, would things like fuel and brake lines etc.
To put it another way, what's the difference between very, very little use, which by definition applies any low-ish mile car of this age, and very, very, very little use. I'd argue, not much. This car may need quite a bit of work. Or it might not. Just like any 40k mile 911 from 2004. Suspension might be fine. It might not. I think it's pretty hard to know based on the history we have.
Don't agree.
5k in 16 years means many of the stuff that goes when it ages, will not have been replaced.
If you look at the history folders of 996s so much on them will now be new, many things being replaced for the second or third time. On a 2004 I would say more like 2nd.
I don't think there is anything wrong if priced right, but expect to throw another £5k at it straight away if not a a bit more, anything less is a bonus.
Then keep it and enjoy it. I do think moving it on may prove tricky though.
If it has been genuinely laid up and mot history can show this, then a folder showing what has been done to get it back on the road could mitigate this and make it worth a bit more and make it a bit more collectible as the years pile on.
But I wouldn't buy it banking on that.
5k in 16 years means many of the stuff that goes when it ages, will not have been replaced.
If you look at the history folders of 996s so much on them will now be new, many things being replaced for the second or third time. On a 2004 I would say more like 2nd.
I don't think there is anything wrong if priced right, but expect to throw another £5k at it straight away if not a a bit more, anything less is a bonus.
Then keep it and enjoy it. I do think moving it on may prove tricky though.
If it has been genuinely laid up and mot history can show this, then a folder showing what has been done to get it back on the road could mitigate this and make it worth a bit more and make it a bit more collectible as the years pile on.
But I wouldn't buy it banking on that.
The biggest question- How much is he asking? If it's near trade it could be a good deal.
How hands on are you? A lot of the jobs could be done by a good diy mechanic, and as its effectively got 7 missing services it will hardly effect it's value.
It will need- new tyres, and major service inc brake fluid, and most probably discs and pads (corrosion- depending on how well it was stored).
How hands on are you? A lot of the jobs could be done by a good diy mechanic, and as its effectively got 7 missing services it will hardly effect it's value.
It will need- new tyres, and major service inc brake fluid, and most probably discs and pads (corrosion- depending on how well it was stored).
New rubber everywhere. Porsche bushes have a shelf life of around 10-12 years based on the durometer of rubber they spec.
When not used it means they won't have been changed because, well it hasn't been used, as soon as you start to use them they will start to go.
This is a good £2k do do yourself, and considerably more if you pay someone else as these bolts fused into the hubs, frame etc. Good old steel and ally mixed.
I bet the dampers will be fine.
Then you have the hoses, the coolant tank, etc. etc.
I would say to the OP, take it out, it should feel like new with such low mileage.
Keep us updated too.
When not used it means they won't have been changed because, well it hasn't been used, as soon as you start to use them they will start to go.
This is a good £2k do do yourself, and considerably more if you pay someone else as these bolts fused into the hubs, frame etc. Good old steel and ally mixed.
I bet the dampers will be fine.
Then you have the hoses, the coolant tank, etc. etc.
I would say to the OP, take it out, it should feel like new with such low mileage.
Keep us updated too.
dba7108 said:
Been offered an 04' 911 40 anniversary. Its done 40k miles but the current owner has had it since 2008 and has only done 5k miles in it. It's only had an oil change in that time. Mot checks out and I know the person so no funny business like clocking etc.
What implications are there for leaving a car sat there for so long with such little use. Also should it have been serviced if it wasn't doing any miles?
As anticipated you've got view from both sides - some to the extreme the cars knackered and not cost effective to repair. Get it inspected from a decent Indy and take it from there. A decent Indy will tell you what needs doing and what you can put off. Where it has been kept is key. If it's been in a dry garage I'd be more optimistic with less chance of serious corrosion. I'm assuming tinware and exhaust clamps and bolts will be corroded - if you get 4yrs out of these now you're lucky!What implications are there for leaving a car sat there for so long with such little use. Also should it have been serviced if it wasn't doing any miles?
Lack of history will be an issue for the next person if/when you sell it, but in reality the last service is the only one that counts along with the work you get done in your ownership. There are anoraks in this world that can't get past a service history that has a missed service from over 10yrs ago despite serviced regularly since
Don't get hung up on the 996 Anniverary being a collector's car. It isn't, so a premium over a C4S is negligible
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