991 GT3 to 997 GT3
Discussion
I went from 991.1GT3 to 997.2GT3RS when the engine issue came to light back when the 991 was new.
I have never regretted the move for even a split second.
Even though the RS is wide bodied it still feels smaller than the 991 because there is more glass/plexi. Everything about the car 'feels' better screwed together than in a 991 and the whole experience is so much more special.
Edited to add - Ive also got a 991.2 Carrera2S which is a joy to drive as well and is real world faster than the 997RS but less special and a LOT more refined
I have never regretted the move for even a split second.
Even though the RS is wide bodied it still feels smaller than the 991 because there is more glass/plexi. Everything about the car 'feels' better screwed together than in a 991 and the whole experience is so much more special.
Edited to add - Ive also got a 991.2 Carrera2S which is a joy to drive as well and is real world faster than the 997RS but less special and a LOT more refined
Interesting feedback and really appreciated.
My dilemma is this; for road I have an R8 V10 Plus and a 650S Spider as my "fast" road cars. This makes me want to get the 997 as I would love a fast-ish manual road car.
However, for track I have a very fast Exige V6 that's modified and even a 997 RS is nowhere near as raw which makes me want to get the 991 PDK to be a digital full on attack track car when I fancy something that's not as raw as the Exige. Especially for Spa and Nurburgring trips.
Ideally I'd like to keep it around the 120k mark which allows a nice 997.2 CS or a 991.2 PDK CS, would possibly even a 997.1 RS however my head says a 997.2 GT3 is better than a 997.1 RS....
My dilemma is this; for road I have an R8 V10 Plus and a 650S Spider as my "fast" road cars. This makes me want to get the 997 as I would love a fast-ish manual road car.
However, for track I have a very fast Exige V6 that's modified and even a 997 RS is nowhere near as raw which makes me want to get the 991 PDK to be a digital full on attack track car when I fancy something that's not as raw as the Exige. Especially for Spa and Nurburgring trips.
Ideally I'd like to keep it around the 120k mark which allows a nice 997.2 CS or a 991.2 PDK CS, would possibly even a 997.1 RS however my head says a 997.2 GT3 is better than a 997.1 RS....
Babw said:
Has anyone gone from a 991 (either gens) to a 997 (either gens) GT3?
What are your thoughts?
Would be interested to hear from anyone that has both too.
Occasional road and track cars would be the intended use.
Hi Babw. What are your thoughts?
Would be interested to hear from anyone that has both too.
Occasional road and track cars would be the intended use.
I have both the 997.2 GT3 CS and a 991.2 GT3 PDK CS (also a 996.2 GT3 which is my fave but not relevant to this thread)
For me the 991 is what I use mainly for track work where it is far easier to go quicker than the 997. The more I spank it round circuits the more I am falling for it, especially round big boy tracks like SPA, the ‘ring and Silverstone.
On the road it just doesn’t feel quite as special as the 997 does. The 991 feels more grown up, more serious and bigger.
Also, and this is just my opinion, but the 997 just looks better too.
Considering the other cars you have, I’d say go 997.1 RS…or up budget a bit and go 997.2 RS
Do you think a 7.1 RS is worth the premium over a 7.1 GT3?
I can't really justify the 7.2 RS prices at present but am watching them for any apparent bargains. There're so few for sale that I don't see anything coming within my budget however I have spotted a 7.1 GT3 CS for sale with an OPC.
I can't really justify the 7.2 RS prices at present but am watching them for any apparent bargains. There're so few for sale that I don't see anything coming within my budget however I have spotted a 7.1 GT3 CS for sale with an OPC.
OP - with a R8 v10+ and a 650 already I'd have thought any kind of dualclutch 991 would be too similar? And if you're used to that kind of ease of running quickly on the road which both those cars do a loonily good job of, I wonder if you wouldn't think a 997 gt3 might be too slow even if it's obviously much harder work (or involving depending on how one looks at things 
) to be going quickly.
Fwiw, unless one desperately needed to tick the RS box, the 7.1rs imo is relatively the weakest offering relative to the gt3 of any of the rs models as it's really awfully similar. Personally I'd go 7.2gt3 every time.
) to be going quickly. Fwiw, unless one desperately needed to tick the RS box, the 7.1rs imo is relatively the weakest offering relative to the gt3 of any of the rs models as it's really awfully similar. Personally I'd go 7.2gt3 every time.
Both are road spec, neither of them have buckets but sports seats. No option for harnesses and I’m not sure how happy either would be going around a track lap after lap.
I need to drive a 7.1 and a 7.2 but that’s easier said than done.
Another thing to consider is that I really don’t plan to sell any of my cars and right now the 997 is a “modern classic” however in 10 years the 991 may be just as attractive.
I need to drive a 7.1 and a 7.2 but that’s easier said than done.
Another thing to consider is that I really don’t plan to sell any of my cars and right now the 997 is a “modern classic” however in 10 years the 991 may be just as attractive.
Babw said:
Interesting feedback and really appreciated.
My dilemma is this; for road I have an R8 V10 Plus and a 650S Spider as my "fast" road cars. This makes me want to get the 997 as I would love a fast-ish manual road car.
However, for track I have a very fast Exige V6 that's modified and even a 997 RS is nowhere near as raw which makes me want to get the 991 PDK to be a digital full on attack track car when I fancy something that's not as raw as the Exige. Especially for Spa and Nurburgring trips.
Ideally I'd like to keep it around the 120k mark which allows a nice 997.2 CS or a 991.2 PDK CS, would possibly even a 997.1 RS however my head says a 997.2 GT3 is better than a 997.1 RS....
Not quite the same, but I went from a V6 Exige Cup to a 997.1 GT3 Clubsport and whilst the Exige was faster, the 997 was much better when it came to brakes, clutch and gear change. H&T was a joy, and the brakes on the 997 very good. Steering on a Lotus is still unmatched imho.My dilemma is this; for road I have an R8 V10 Plus and a 650S Spider as my "fast" road cars. This makes me want to get the 997 as I would love a fast-ish manual road car.
However, for track I have a very fast Exige V6 that's modified and even a 997 RS is nowhere near as raw which makes me want to get the 991 PDK to be a digital full on attack track car when I fancy something that's not as raw as the Exige. Especially for Spa and Nurburgring trips.
Ideally I'd like to keep it around the 120k mark which allows a nice 997.2 CS or a 991.2 PDK CS, would possibly even a 997.1 RS however my head says a 997.2 GT3 is better than a 997.1 RS....
The key difference was that the 997 was a real challenge to drive quickly. Demanded me to be on my game and probably the most engaging car I’ve owned.
I had to sell it for financial reasons, and I’m now going back to a Lotus, but given one last tank of fuel, I’d probably take the 997.
Firstly, nice fleet and good dilemma to have!
I own a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.2 GT3 manual, both of which also get out on track.
It's a bit outside your £120k budget but if you want a very special, turnkey track day weapon, have you considered selling the Exige and stretching to a 991.1 GT3 RS? These might be coming into range if prices continue to soften.
I still miss my old Exige V6 so personally I'd keep that for predominantly track work and then buy a 997.2 GT3 or 997.1 GT3 RS for road/track. On the road the 991.1 GT3 might feel a bit similar in use-case to your R8 and Macca combo? Just a thought.
The 991 is very usable day-to-day if you wish. It's pretty firm riding and the road noise is high due to the relative lack of sound deadening. The RS has a slightly more compliant ride despite in my case the 991 being on Michelin PS4S and the 997 on Cup2s.
The RS is more of an event. Definitely requires more thought - heavier clutch and mechanical gearshift action requiring precision. Steering is more feelsome on the 997 but not up there with the Exige for texture, but obviously the latter has no assistance so not really an apples-for-apples comparison (as an aside, the Evora is the best hydraulic PAS system I've ever experienced, the RS a close second but with the caveat that I've not tried a Macca).
The RS rewards the inputs with a sublime and immersive driving experience. The narrower body is a definite advantage on UK roads (I assume that's where you are located) and it's more than quick enough on road and can still more-or-less keep up with more modern stuff on track, if well driven.
Practical point, I would recommend axle lift if you are doing lots of road driving or using day-to-day, depending on your location of course - I have it on both cars but I would say it's even more important on the 991 than the 997 due to the front lip overhang.
I could go on and on. Happy to answer any specifics. Happy shopping!
I own a 997.2 GT3 RS and a 991.2 GT3 manual, both of which also get out on track.
It's a bit outside your £120k budget but if you want a very special, turnkey track day weapon, have you considered selling the Exige and stretching to a 991.1 GT3 RS? These might be coming into range if prices continue to soften.
I still miss my old Exige V6 so personally I'd keep that for predominantly track work and then buy a 997.2 GT3 or 997.1 GT3 RS for road/track. On the road the 991.1 GT3 might feel a bit similar in use-case to your R8 and Macca combo? Just a thought.
The 991 is very usable day-to-day if you wish. It's pretty firm riding and the road noise is high due to the relative lack of sound deadening. The RS has a slightly more compliant ride despite in my case the 991 being on Michelin PS4S and the 997 on Cup2s.
The RS is more of an event. Definitely requires more thought - heavier clutch and mechanical gearshift action requiring precision. Steering is more feelsome on the 997 but not up there with the Exige for texture, but obviously the latter has no assistance so not really an apples-for-apples comparison (as an aside, the Evora is the best hydraulic PAS system I've ever experienced, the RS a close second but with the caveat that I've not tried a Macca).
The RS rewards the inputs with a sublime and immersive driving experience. The narrower body is a definite advantage on UK roads (I assume that's where you are located) and it's more than quick enough on road and can still more-or-less keep up with more modern stuff on track, if well driven.
Practical point, I would recommend axle lift if you are doing lots of road driving or using day-to-day, depending on your location of course - I have it on both cars but I would say it's even more important on the 991 than the 997 due to the front lip overhang.
I could go on and on. Happy to answer any specifics. Happy shopping!
Thanks for the detailed responses both above.
A couple of things that I have hangups over, how much better is the steering on a 997 compared to a 991.2?
I really would like a car with PCCB and lift, I almost exclusively prefer the feel of PCCB and the lack of brake dust is just other worldly, I own 4 cars with PCCB and it's one of the first things I look for. I also would like lift but 997's offer both these options infrequently.
Would doing shorter journeys in a 997 GT3 get tedious? I find the Exige is fantastic as I only ever take it out when I'm in the mood however if it was my only fun car I think I would be frustrated. I know even in inclement weather I would take a 991 out with better headlights (assuming they're better), creature comforts etc where as with an older car like the 997 with it's heavier clutch etc I'm concerned I'll be treating it like another special occasion car.
Is the 997.2 GT3 worth the 40% over a similar spec 997.1 GT3? The 997s I'm keeping an eye on both have PCCB, clubsport but neither have lift and both have circa 20k miles.
Unfortunately getting both is not an option!
A couple of things that I have hangups over, how much better is the steering on a 997 compared to a 991.2?
I really would like a car with PCCB and lift, I almost exclusively prefer the feel of PCCB and the lack of brake dust is just other worldly, I own 4 cars with PCCB and it's one of the first things I look for. I also would like lift but 997's offer both these options infrequently.
Would doing shorter journeys in a 997 GT3 get tedious? I find the Exige is fantastic as I only ever take it out when I'm in the mood however if it was my only fun car I think I would be frustrated. I know even in inclement weather I would take a 991 out with better headlights (assuming they're better), creature comforts etc where as with an older car like the 997 with it's heavier clutch etc I'm concerned I'll be treating it like another special occasion car.
Is the 997.2 GT3 worth the 40% over a similar spec 997.1 GT3? The 997s I'm keeping an eye on both have PCCB, clubsport but neither have lift and both have circa 20k miles.
Unfortunately getting both is not an option!
The steering in the 997 is superior in terms of feel but the 991.2 is by no means a bad set up. Far from it! I think there are noticeable differences between the electronic steering mapping on the 991.2 vs 991.1 so that’s a factor to consider. I find the 991.1 somewhat more synthetic than the 991.2. It’s one of those very subjective areas which you can only really judge for yourself.
I don’t think the xenons on the 997 in any way prevent me from using it all conditions.
991 certainly more all round usable though (I have folding buckets in both) and habitable.
Regarding brakes, I also like the bite of the PCCBs (991 in my case) but the feel is better on the steels (997 in my case).
Litmus test regarding usability is that I rarely just pop out and use the 997 for a quick drive to the shops or run an errand whereas the 991 I do. For spirited drives, take your pick!
I don’t think the xenons on the 997 in any way prevent me from using it all conditions.
991 certainly more all round usable though (I have folding buckets in both) and habitable.
Regarding brakes, I also like the bite of the PCCBs (991 in my case) but the feel is better on the steels (997 in my case).
Litmus test regarding usability is that I rarely just pop out and use the 997 for a quick drive to the shops or run an errand whereas the 991 I do. For spirited drives, take your pick!
4pot said:
Not quite the same, but I went from a V6 Exige Cup to a 997.1 GT3 Clubsport and whilst the Exige was faster, the 997 was much better when it came to brakes, clutch and gear change. H&T was a joy, and the brakes on the 997 very good. Steering on a Lotus is still unmatched imho.
The key difference was that the 997 was a real challenge to drive quickly. Demanded me to be on my game and probably the most engaging car I’ve owned.
I had to sell it for financial reasons, and I’m now going back to a Lotus, but given one last tank of fuel, I’d probably take the 997.
Interesting feedback. The key difference was that the 997 was a real challenge to drive quickly. Demanded me to be on my game and probably the most engaging car I’ve owned.
I had to sell it for financial reasons, and I’m now going back to a Lotus, but given one last tank of fuel, I’d probably take the 997.
At some point I'm likely to go back to Lotus from my GT3. I was with lotus-on-track at silverstone last week in my 997.1 GT3 and there were loads of V6 Exiges, so there were some interesting comparisons. I'd say it was only 430/460s that were faster overall. One thing to bear in mind is that GT3s are a lot more aerodynamic so they punch above their weight in high-speed acceleration. I hit 149mph on hangar straight (a 410 Evora was high 130s) and my car is 75,000 miles and very old/worn Cup2s.Steve Rance of this parish used to often talk about a lot of extra performance able to be unlocked in the 997 GT3 platform - primarily a proper locking diff, high quality passive dampers (he hated the active PASM dampers) and better discs/pads (Alcons and Pagid RS29s at the time). I just have the better brake pads and dampers are new factory items. I want the diff next but am prioritising back seats instead!
I've had a 997.1 and 991.1, there's no bad choice really as they're both brilliant, just depends what you want from the car. The 997 is more engaging and IMO the right size for UK roads but mine had no lift and the manual got a little tiresome living in London. The 991 as an all round package can't be beat, and it will be significantly quicker round a track in the hands of a regular pleb like me. In an ideal world I would have both!
braddo said:
Interesting feedback. At some point I'm likely to go back to Lotus from my GT3. I was with lotus-on-track at silverstone last week in my 997.1 GT3 and there were loads of V6 Exiges, so there were some interesting comparisons. I'd say it was only 430/460s that were faster overall. One thing to bear in mind is that GT3s are a lot more aerodynamic so they punch above their weight in high-speed acceleration. I hit 149mph on hangar straight (a 410 Evora was high 130s) and my car is 75,000 miles and very old/worn Cup2s.
Steve Rance of this parish used to often talk about a lot of extra performance able to be unlocked in the 997 GT3 platform - primarily a proper locking diff, high quality passive dampers (he hated the active PASM dampers) and better discs/pads (Alcons and Pagid RS29s at the time). I just have the better brake pads and dampers are new factory items. I want the diff next but am prioritising back seats instead!
I should have said I actually have two Komotec 460 cars, one with a shorter gear set + LSD, one more road spec with OEM gearbox. Both are as fast as a 997 GT3 RS 4.0 fully winding out from about 60-125ish, even at Bedford against a 992 GT3 the 460 car was pretty much even too (I have a video of this somewhere too). I haven't had much track time with the more hardcore machine but it feels even more ballistic than the stock gearbox car. At some point I'm likely to go back to Lotus from my GT3. I was with lotus-on-track at silverstone last week in my 997.1 GT3 and there were loads of V6 Exiges, so there were some interesting comparisons. I'd say it was only 430/460s that were faster overall. One thing to bear in mind is that GT3s are a lot more aerodynamic so they punch above their weight in high-speed acceleration. I hit 149mph on hangar straight (a 410 Evora was high 130s) and my car is 75,000 miles and very old/worn Cup2s.Steve Rance of this parish used to often talk about a lot of extra performance able to be unlocked in the 997 GT3 platform - primarily a proper locking diff, high quality passive dampers (he hated the active PASM dampers) and better discs/pads (Alcons and Pagid RS29s at the time). I just have the better brake pads and dampers are new factory items. I want the diff next but am prioritising back seats instead!
This was a fun day at Anglesey - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZHlyQMKbRM&ab...
It's ultimately not outright speed I'm after on track but the challenge however I do love being able to take it out in any weather for a quick blast when time allows.
Is a 997.2 really worth the 20-30k spend on a 997.1 GT3? The ability to fit back seats into a 997.1 is also appealing.
(I'm keeping one Exige and definitely selling the other).
Edited by Babw on Friday 17th November 20:09
Edited by Babw on Friday 17th November 20:33
I love the wheels on the 997.2 and overall i find it a bit better looking but centrelocks can be a hassle; hubs need more regular replacing if doing track days i think? The .2 has some stability management whereas the .1 has none, just basic traction control. Then the .2 has the extra 200cc of capacity. That’s pretty much it.
I would love to try Anglesey. In the dry
I would love to try Anglesey. In the dry
I finally got a chance to drive a 997 GT3. It was a gen 1 comfort spec car with relatively low mileage, the engine sounded very mechanical and the clutch was certainly sturdy! At a decent pace it was certainly engaging but the front end definitely was less positive than I had anticipated.
It didn't instil as much confidence as I would have imagined and although I expected a slightly old school experience, it wasn't as raw as the Exige and it wasn't as crisp as I had imagined a GT3 to be.
I'm now keen to try a 991 GT3, likely a 991.1 the gen 2 car still seem to be holding strong. An interesting option I was given was a 991.2 GTS PDK with rear wheel steer, PCCB and PDCC. I haven't driven it but on paper it appears to be a very liveable and rapid option.
How does a 991.2 GTS compare to a 991.1 GT3? Besides the engine, is the chassis, gearbox, brakes etc comparable?
It didn't instil as much confidence as I would have imagined and although I expected a slightly old school experience, it wasn't as raw as the Exige and it wasn't as crisp as I had imagined a GT3 to be.
I'm now keen to try a 991 GT3, likely a 991.1 the gen 2 car still seem to be holding strong. An interesting option I was given was a 991.2 GTS PDK with rear wheel steer, PCCB and PDCC. I haven't driven it but on paper it appears to be a very liveable and rapid option.
How does a 991.2 GTS compare to a 991.1 GT3? Besides the engine, is the chassis, gearbox, brakes etc comparable?
braddo said:
I love the wheels on the 997.2 and overall i find it a bit better looking but centrelocks can be a hassle; hubs need more regular replacing if doing track days i think? The .2 has some stability management whereas the .1 has none, just basic traction control. Then the .2 has the extra 200cc of capacity. That’s pretty much it.
I would love to try Anglesey. In the dry
I think this is rather over simplifying the difference between a .1 and .2I would love to try Anglesey. In the dry
Probably the biggest difference was the work that went in to address the slightly vague front end of the .1 as experienced by the OP. This is an excerpt from Catchpole's review of the .2 in 2009:
"Over supper the night before, Carsten Schebsdat, the quietly spoken project engineer for the GT3, talked me through the changes that have been made. First up was a tweak to the front suspension geometry, carried over from the GT2 (and without which the GT3’s big brother was apparently almost undriveable, with lots of snap oversteer…). Then they drastically lowered the centre of roll at the front and raised it at the rear. This was all designed to get the back axle reacting more quickly because, as Schebsdat explained, turn-in alacrity is actually more dependent on the reaction of the rear axle, not, as you might think, the front."
Much better drivers than me acknowleged the improvement that was delivered and to my mind this is the biggest differentiator between the 2 versions.
Also OP, as a matter of interest I went from a manual 991.2 GTS to my 997.2 GT3. They are chalk and cheese in my view. The GTS is a superb all rounder but it is no GT3, either a 997 or a 991.
I bought a new 991.2 GTS, manual, 2WD no RWSteer, as simple as you could get... because I couldn't get a 991.2 GT3 and saw it as an upgrade from the Carrera T I set out to buy.
In my opinion, it wasn't an exciting experience to drive, so after a short while I swapped it for a 997.2 GT3, one is like a hard-core Audi and the other a proper Porsche.
Geo set up on the 997 majes a big difference, you can dial them back to feel like a Carrera or go race car.. I wonder what the one you drive was like?
In my opinion, it wasn't an exciting experience to drive, so after a short while I swapped it for a 997.2 GT3, one is like a hard-core Audi and the other a proper Porsche.
Geo set up on the 997 majes a big difference, you can dial them back to feel like a Carrera or go race car.. I wonder what the one you drive was like?
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