is a 992 GT3 Touring really a Touring?
Discussion
Have had my 992 GT3 Touring for a few months, and despite the weather have had a few weekends away, and not convinced its suited to touring!
Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
The cars name is 911 GT3 with Touring package. It’s a GT3 first.
It follows from 2.7 RS where there was a lightweight and a touring.
The lightweight was the homologation car, light as possible, with comfortable options such as radio, power windows, rear seats, thick carpet, all stripped out.
The touring option allow people to spec those options back in. But that was it. It was still a 2.7RS.
Sounds like what people actually want is a GTS, with an NA engine…. well, Porsche built those in 997.2 and 991.1.
So it’s expectations that need to be adjusted IMO, as it is exactly what it says it is …
Specifically on tyres… the common opinion is that the Pirelli P Zero offers the most road friendly behaviour. not sure if there is an MPS4S for 992 GT3 at present.
It follows from 2.7 RS where there was a lightweight and a touring.
The lightweight was the homologation car, light as possible, with comfortable options such as radio, power windows, rear seats, thick carpet, all stripped out.
The touring option allow people to spec those options back in. But that was it. It was still a 2.7RS.
Sounds like what people actually want is a GTS, with an NA engine…. well, Porsche built those in 997.2 and 991.1.
So it’s expectations that need to be adjusted IMO, as it is exactly what it says it is …
Specifically on tyres… the common opinion is that the Pirelli P Zero offers the most road friendly behaviour. not sure if there is an MPS4S for 992 GT3 at present.
Edited by TDT on Thursday 2nd February 09:29
MP4Ss over P zeros if you want to reduce tramlining. The tramlining on rough roads is an unfortunate trait of double wishbones front suspension exasperated by stiff side wall tyres. Both Cup 2s and P zeros have stiffer side walls compared to MP4Ss in my experience.
My Ferrari 812 also with double wishbones and P zeros tend to tramline until the tyres get properly warm.
My Ferrari 812 also with double wishbones and P zeros tend to tramline until the tyres get properly warm.
flow99 said:
Have had my 992 GT3 Touring for a few months, and despite the weather have had a few weekends away, and not convinced its suited to touring!
Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
The tyre change sounds reasonable. What about having the geometry settings adjusted to your driving style and intended use?Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
flow99 said:
Have had my 992 GT3 Touring for a few months, and despite the weather have had a few weekends away, and not convinced its suited to touring!
Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
Harry's Garage and CH picked up on this with their reviews, and CH is offloading his 992 touring and keeping his 991 touring....Specifically went for comfy seats to enable easy access to the rear for extra luggage, and that was a good decision. Short trips are fun, but anything longer, and at reasonable speed the car is hard work as very bumpy and likes to tramline, so its not a relaxing long distant drive.
Its on Cup 2's, so a recent drive in heavy rain was not pleasant, but have read these may be the cause of the bumpy ride, as hard sidewalls, and the trainlining, so is it worth a change to PZero's or MP4's before change the intended use for the Touring?
Had GT3's and GT4 before, and even used 997 GT3 as a daily driver for a couple of years so its not an unexpected change, just not doing 'what it says on th tin'!
Twinfan said:
CocoUK said:
I haven’t heard many positives with Cup2’s, get them changed and enjoy the car to the fullest.
Cup2s are mega when it's warm and dry, plus on track! They're a very focussed tyre with huge positives if used in the correct environment...MY Daily .2 3RS , is fine , do not see the issue , just as I get older getting in and out. I think the RS is a more suitable road car as a daily with higher rear ( larger wheels ) and more comfortable ride as well as more road hump ( London ) clearance when the lift is used .
Yes the other day I went down to Hampshire and it was minus degrees and icy so bit more interesting on very worn Cup 2 , but just take that into account that you may move around a bit . Only real issue was trip back I had the "handbrake" ( wife) in the car who was less comfortable with the conditions .
Yes the other day I went down to Hampshire and it was minus degrees and icy so bit more interesting on very worn Cup 2 , but just take that into account that you may move around a bit . Only real issue was trip back I had the "handbrake" ( wife) in the car who was less comfortable with the conditions .
I’ve had 911s for years, inc several generations of RS and GT - from 2.7RSL to 991 Touring - and it was the Touring that really crystallised my view that the modern GTs are compromised road cars in the UK, where our road surfaces and traffic conditions are generally so poor.
Sports seats and ‘low noise’ road tyres do help, but I would only buy a GT3 to use on-track, or perhaps in Europe.
I do about half my annual mileage in France, where most of the roads are in another league for quality and comfort, and touring or long-haul trips are actually very enjoyable.
But, even there, one can only use a proportion of the available performance, with the increasingly vigilant Gendarmerie.
I strongly suspect that, for all of the GT3’s excellence, a GTS or, even better, a nicely spec'd new ‘T’ would be more enjoyable, more of the time, and £100k in your pocket.
Sports seats and ‘low noise’ road tyres do help, but I would only buy a GT3 to use on-track, or perhaps in Europe.
I do about half my annual mileage in France, where most of the roads are in another league for quality and comfort, and touring or long-haul trips are actually very enjoyable.
But, even there, one can only use a proportion of the available performance, with the increasingly vigilant Gendarmerie.
I strongly suspect that, for all of the GT3’s excellence, a GTS or, even better, a nicely spec'd new ‘T’ would be more enjoyable, more of the time, and £100k in your pocket.
Geneve said:
I’ve had 911s for years, inc several generations of RS and GT - from 2.7RSL to 991 Touring - and it was the Touring that really crystallised my view that the modern GTs are compromised road cars in the UK, where our road surfaces and traffic conditions are generally so poor.
Sports seats and ‘low noise’ road tyres do help, but I would only buy a GT3 to use on-track, or perhaps in Europe.
I do about half my annual mileage in France, where most of the roads are in another league for quality and comfort, and touring or long-haul trips are actually very enjoyable.
But, even there, one can only use a proportion of the available performance, with the increasingly vigilant Gendarmerie.
I strongly suspect that, for all of the GT3’s excellence, a GTS or, even better, a nicely spec'd new ‘T’ would be more enjoyable, more of the time, and £100k in your pocket.
There's a reason why many have called the GTS the 'sweet spot'. If I remember correctly, even Harry Metcalf preferred the 992 GTS over the 992 GT3.Sports seats and ‘low noise’ road tyres do help, but I would only buy a GT3 to use on-track, or perhaps in Europe.
I do about half my annual mileage in France, where most of the roads are in another league for quality and comfort, and touring or long-haul trips are actually very enjoyable.
But, even there, one can only use a proportion of the available performance, with the increasingly vigilant Gendarmerie.
I strongly suspect that, for all of the GT3’s excellence, a GTS or, even better, a nicely spec'd new ‘T’ would be more enjoyable, more of the time, and £100k in your pocket.
But things like this just cements for me my choice with the 992 GTS. I haven't done a Track Day in mine yet, but I will this year along with taking it to the Ring. But I know it will be very capable having done a few PEC days and especially the way I specced it, more of a racey performance spec. Can only imagine what it would be like with Cup 2's on a track. Mine has come with Good Year Eagle F1 Supersports, which are a good fast road high performance tyre, but wouldn't probably last long on a track. But I will only do the occasional track day, mine has been bought for nice drives out and road trips.
I did a trip to Germany and back in mine just a month after taking delivery and honestly, it was brilliant! I didn't feel like my back was battered or had any aches and pains, was still fresh at every stop for coffee/refuelling and the performance when giving it some was amazing. I mentioned in another thread but I hit 178mph with ease, only slowed down because of traffic. And then the way it handled around the twisties in the Eiffel mountains was amazing. My friend in his 718 GT4 was following and said he was VERY impressed with the 992 GTS, shocked in fact at the way it went!
As mentioned earlier, I've done a few PEC 1/2 days at Silverstone, 3 in total. Each time I was with a different instructor and I asked them the question which is their favourite 911, 2 out of 3 said the GTS, 1 said Turbo S. Now considering they drive everything day in day out, they all said to me the general consensus amongst all the instructors is that the GTS is the best all rounder, as it can do the track days as well as touring road trips etc...
And with power unit it has, it's quicker than a GT3 in the real world, I can confirm this from my point of view having driven a friend's 992 GT3 and him having driven mine, we both felt mine was quicker along the little route we had planned around the Peaks.
Edited by Schuey_911 on Thursday 2nd February 12:23
A change of tyres will help the ride and you can dial out the tram lining - or Chris at Center Gravity will. There isn't a DSC module for the 992 (yet) and not sure if you can adjust the ride via the current Porsche module. But Chris will know.
Edited by Discombobulate on Friday 3rd February 16:13
Sure these cars are not what you'd call cossetting, but certainly a Touring is very usable even on UK roads IMO. I did 2500 miles in a couple of weeks last year in my 991, up to Skye with one of the dogs for 8 days, back home to drop him off then over to Anglesey for a track day. Road noise is the only issue on poorly surfaced roads. Perfectly highlights the 'sweet spot' of the Touring imo, under the radar when you need it to be and still fantastic on track.
Schuey_911 said:
There's a reason why many have called the GTS the 'sweet spot'. If I remember correctly, even Harry Metcalf preferred the 992 GTS over the 992 GT3.
But things like this just cements for me my choice with the 992 GTS. I haven't done a Track Day in mine yet, but I will this year along with taking it to the Ring. But I know it will be very capable having done a few PEC days and especially the way I specced it, more of a racey performance spec. Can only imagine what it would be like with Cup 2's on a track. Mine has come with Good Year Eagle F1 Supersports, which are a good fast road high performance tyre, but wouldn't probably last long on a track. But I will only do the occasional track day, mine has been bought for nice drives out and road trips.
I did a trip to Germany and back in mine just a month after taking delivery and honestly, it was brilliant! I didn't feel like my back was battered or had any aches and pains, was still fresh at every stop for coffee/refuelling and the performance when giving it some was amazing. I mentioned in another thread but I hit 178mph with ease, only slowed down because of traffic. And then the way it handled around the twisties in the Eiffel mountains was amazing. My friend in his 718 GT4 was following and said he was VERY impressed with the 992 GTS, shocked in fact at the way it went!
As mentioned earlier, I've done a few PEC 1/2 days at Silverstone, 3 in total. Each time I was with a different instructor and I asked them the question which is their favourite 911, 2 out of 3 said the GTS, 1 said Turbo S. Now considering they drive everything day in day out, they all said to me the general consensus amongst all the instructors is that the GTS is the best all rounder, as it can do the track days as well as touring road trips etc...
And with power unit it has, it's quicker than a GT3 in the real world, I can confirm this from my point of view having driven a friend's 992 GT3 and him having driven mine, we both felt mine was quicker along the little route we had planned around the Peaks.
Nope, it's completely up to personal tolerance levels, the GT3 is positively limo like compared to Pork of old which some of us grew up driving, but many newer adopters of the brand seduced by auto and cushy electronic dampers are just in the wrong car, the GTS or a regular S or Carrera will make them much happier although I'm sure the OP will not suffer too much with his Touring choice. But things like this just cements for me my choice with the 992 GTS. I haven't done a Track Day in mine yet, but I will this year along with taking it to the Ring. But I know it will be very capable having done a few PEC days and especially the way I specced it, more of a racey performance spec. Can only imagine what it would be like with Cup 2's on a track. Mine has come with Good Year Eagle F1 Supersports, which are a good fast road high performance tyre, but wouldn't probably last long on a track. But I will only do the occasional track day, mine has been bought for nice drives out and road trips.
I did a trip to Germany and back in mine just a month after taking delivery and honestly, it was brilliant! I didn't feel like my back was battered or had any aches and pains, was still fresh at every stop for coffee/refuelling and the performance when giving it some was amazing. I mentioned in another thread but I hit 178mph with ease, only slowed down because of traffic. And then the way it handled around the twisties in the Eiffel mountains was amazing. My friend in his 718 GT4 was following and said he was VERY impressed with the 992 GTS, shocked in fact at the way it went!
As mentioned earlier, I've done a few PEC 1/2 days at Silverstone, 3 in total. Each time I was with a different instructor and I asked them the question which is their favourite 911, 2 out of 3 said the GTS, 1 said Turbo S. Now considering they drive everything day in day out, they all said to me the general consensus amongst all the instructors is that the GTS is the best all rounder, as it can do the track days as well as touring road trips etc...
And with power unit it has, it's quicker than a GT3 in the real world, I can confirm this from my point of view having driven a friend's 992 GT3 and him having driven mine, we both felt mine was quicker along the little route we had planned around the Peaks.
Edited by Schuey_911 on Thursday 2nd February 12:23
That_White_GT3 said:
Seems to be alot of people complaining the 992 GT3 is too hard for the road etc - i think people are getting confused. Its GT3 built for the track - alot of people seem to be expecting GTS drivability/comfort, its a weekend track car not a EU road trip cruiser!
Reckon on the 'frustration' largely coming from the fact that the 992 GT3 is c 75% track 25% road focused whereas the 991.2 is more like 50% 50 %.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff