Is the used car market dead?

[gd]

I've had my 997 turbo advertised on PH for a week now. I took some advice on the advert, photos, price and so on, but I've had just one call, and that was to offer me his 991 GT3 as I said I was looking for one!

Previously when selling cars I would have had a few calls, OK quite a few of them would be time wasters and dealers, but there would have at least been some! I had waited until now as I thought the spring was when everyone was thinking about buying a new car for the summer, but is anyone doing this?

I've just knocked a couple of thousand pounds off the price to see if that makes a difference, but any further and I may as well just trade it in as the OPC offers I've received are not much lower.

So what's the problem? Is anyone buying these cars? Does nobody want a 997 anymore? Am I asking too much?

Hmmm.... thoughts anyone?

[MrC986]

FWIW, I think the whole political debacle has taken some people's attention from things, plus the cost of finance is also putting some off. You'll hopefully sell your car this weekend although if the gap is so small to the OPC p/ex, as you say it'd be almost worth chopping it in with them. Have you listed the car on the 911uk forum in the classified section BTW? GLWTS

[GT4RS]

Needs to be priced just above a realistic buy it now trade price to stand a chance selling privately at the moment.

Markets quite for this time of year IMO, it doesn’t matter what car it is there seems to be plenty of choice and only the very best cars sell straight away but still need to be priced right.

1 week isn’t long in this climate, if it’s priced right and it’s a good car someone will snap it up.

[gd]

Thanks both. I thought Gen 1.5 manual 997 turbos were one of those "in demand" cars, especially one with low mileage and full history, but I am really surprised how quiet it's been.

I will give it another week, if I don't sell it I will hang on and trade it in. I just thought that someone might like the car as it comes with the OPC warranty but without the £10k OPC tax on top!

[Wilmslowboy]

No the used car mkt is up...

However, the private used car market (especially premium/sports) is pants and has been in decline for years.

Sold my last 4 cars to trade (after 2 decades of only buying and selling privately before that).

Stick it on Tootle at just above OPC PX price and see what happens (free to use).

[GT4RS]

Wilmslowboy said:

No the used car mkt is up...

However, the private used car market (especially premium/sports) is pants and has been in decline for years.

Sold my last 4 cars to trade (after 2 decades of only buying and selling privately before that).

Stick it on Tootle at just above OPC PX price and see what happens (free to use).

I’ve aleays found piston heads being the best, I have actually sold well to independents off it.

I’ve never had any luck on tootle, be ready for a wide spread on the offers!

A manual turbo in good condition is difficult to find but I’m not sure it carries a premium over a pdk cars people think they carry it would need to be priced below gen 2 cars imo.

You will know if it’s priced right as the independents will try and buy it close to what you are asking.

[NAS90]

gd said:

Thanks both. I thought Gen 1.5 manual 997 turbos were one of those "in demand" cars, especially one with low mileage and full history, but I am really surprised how quiet it's been.

I will give it another week, if I don't sell it I will hang on and trade it in. I just thought that someone might like the car as it comes with the OPC warranty but without the £10k OPC tax on top!

The market for high end cars seems to have been gently receding for a while now, most dealers are well stocked with their own cars and SOR stock that is moving slower than they expected so the trade aren't buying in the numbers they were a year ago. The auctions in particular are seeing more cars turning up that would previously have been retailed and they aren't making the prices expected so are hanging around at auction.

There are certainly buyers out there but in lesser numbers than in the recent past so don't expect a stampede even if you have a desirable car and it is well priced. If sales continue to slow we can also expect trade in values to weaken as stock levels at the dealers increase past levels they are comfortable with.

Ultimately it should be good for anyone looking to upgrade as costs come down

[Juno]

gd said:

Thanks both. I thought Gen 1.5 manual 997 turbos were one of those "in demand" cars, especially one with low mileage and full history, but I am really surprised how quiet it's been.

I will give it another week, if I don't sell it I will hang on and trade it in. I just thought that someone might like the car as it comes with the OPC warranty but without the £10k OPC tax on top!

My mate took a year to sell his,mint car,manual etc

[ChrisW.]

I owned a very nice Audi RS3 ... Ok not in the P Turbo league but maybe a better prospect for a private sale ...in the end it was bought by an Audi dealer who said RS3's were hot ... at a price very close to my final advertised price.

I did not have a single serious private reply ... and I like selling privately ...

The market is very fragile if you can't offer finance and warranties up-front ...

Do people really buy cars on APR's of 8% ?

[Dammit]

I can't really answer that as I've always bought privately for cash, but with that said, if you intend on buying a car for summer/a year before changing then the APR isn't a huge factor - it's whether you can afford the monthly payment.

[MB140]

ChrisW. said:

I owned a very nice Audi RS3 ... Ok not in the P Turbo league but maybe a better prospect for a private sale ...in the end it was bought by an Audi dealer who said RS3's were hot ... at a price very close to my final advertised price.

I did not have a single serious private reply ... and I like selling privately ...

The market is very fragile if you can't offer finance and warranties up-front ...

Do people really buy cars on APR's of 8% ?

Why would you pay 8%. My m135i is on a private loan at 2.9% about £10k. I got an email from them yesterday offering up to £30k at 3.3%.

The only reason I took BMW fiancé at 8% was because the discount offered on the rrp was higher. I literally paid BMW of the afternoon I drove the car home.

[SignalGruen]

ChrisW. said:

I owned a very nice Audi RS3 ... Ok not in the P Turbo league but maybe a better prospect for a private sale ...in the end it was bought by an Audi dealer who said RS3's were hot ... at a price very close to my final advertised price.

I did not have a single serious private reply ... and I like selling privately ...

The market is very fragile if you can't offer finance and warranties up-front ...

Do people really buy cars on APR's of 8% ?

Very much this - had my 1M on here and didn't get a single enquiry - ended up selling it to a BMW dealer who paid a fiver more than what I had it advertised for.

[Koln-RS]

Overall, I suspect that things are slow. I frequently 'window shop' and a lot of interesting stuff doesn't seem to be moving that quickly - and this is the time of year, with nice weather, when the market should be quite busy.

Obviously high value cars are much harder to sell privately - it takes a bit of effort - preparation, photos, description, sensible pricing…. And having the Extended Porsche Warranty is a big help. It gives prospective buyers a lot more confidence and security.

[gd]

Koln-RS said:

Overall, I suspect that things are slow. I frequently 'window shop' and a lot of interesting stuff doesn't seem to be moving that quickly - and this is the time of year, with nice weather, when the market should be quite busy.

Obviously high value cars are much harder to sell privately - it takes a bit of effort - preparation, photos, description, sensible pricing…. And having the Extended Porsche Warranty is a big help. It gives prospective buyers a lot more confidence and security.

I agree, it's slower than I've ever seen. I'm blaming Brexit, what the hell.

Well, I did the prep, the photos, the description and it has 18 months' of OPC warranty left, so let's see if the price drop works. If not then it will be traded in and they can try to sell it for 10k more.

[GT4RS]

I guess if the trade bids not a million miles away it could be beneficial to move it along if you have made to Jump ship.

Don’t forget a lot of these cars are now depreciating month in month out, which wasn’t the same 24 months ago.

[Wilmslowboy]

gd said:

Thanks both. I thought Gen 1.5 manual 997 turbos were one of those "in demand" cars, especially one with low mileage and full history, but I am really surprised how quiet it's been.

I will give it another week, if I don't sell it I will hang on and trade it in. I just thought that someone might like the car as it comes with the OPC warranty but without the £10k OPC tax on top!

If it's the car I think it is (with 18k miles), then it needs a specialist route to mkt, it is not a typical used Porsche. The spread in prices 996 man turbos is now huge, and largely driven by miles (and condition), with top prices appearing to coming from auction and specialist sales.

It wouldn't surprise me, if someone like 911v or JZ M had a waiting list of customers looking for a car like your, with so much of the value coming from low miles, history and condition (and not spec and age), most buyers would want the reassurance of some specialist (both in terms of expertise in sourcing and reputation).

I imagine you could knock £10k of the price and it wouldn't still sell privately...

[ChrisW.]

That happened with an Landrover Discovery 4 that I sold for my daughter.

It was advertised on PH and Autotrader, the pictures were good, I kept refreshing the ad and dropping the price to the point where a dealer bought it.

I might have been better touting it around the dealers with the pics and description and playing one off against another ??

The point I made about 8% APR was just as the reply said ... there are plenty of offers in the finance market that are lower than the rate most dealers are asking. "I may well be considered by my bank for a £XXk loan at around 3% APR" ?? It's in my face every time I log-in !

The reason for the extra retail discount being the APR/finance cash back, but I agree that this is a piece of arithmetic to do.

My RS3 also had three months of the original 3 year warranty to go ... but maybe that isn't enough ?

[griffter]

I’d give it three months for a top condition specialist car on a private sale at an ambitious price before querying the market. Cars I’ve owned are very well kept and when I sell are in needs nothing condition. I tend to favour low mileage original cars (I just do!). Over the last ten years each has sold to the first person to view, but it’s sometimes taken months for that person to come out of the woodwork.
Unless there’s a queue of people scouring the classifieds for a car just like yours daily, it will take a while. And then, yes there is Brexit, or more to the point general uncertainty of course...

[gd]

Wilmslowboy said:

If it's the car I think it is (with 18k miles), then it needs a specialist route to mkt, it is not a typical used Porsche. The spread in prices 996 man turbos is now huge, and largely driven by miles (and condition), with top prices appearing to coming from auction and specialist sales.

It wouldn't surprise me, if someone like 911v or JZ M had a waiting list of customers looking for a car like your, with so much of the value coming from low miles, history and condition (and not spec and age), most buyers would want the reassurance of some specialist (both in terms of expertise in sourcing and reputation).

I imagine you could knock £10k of the price and it wouldn't still sell privately...

Thanks, yes it is that one. It has the low mileage, history and condition too :-)

Unfortunately most of these specialists seem to be quite a distance from me (Cheshire), and nearly everyone I've spoken to rightly wants to see the car in the flesh, but I don't have the time for a 400 mile round trip without some sense that it might be fruitful. The couple that I know of more locally are very interested, but they want to sell it on a sale or return basis, which I am wary of as I've heard some bad stories of this approach.

I will keep it on for a week or two longer to see what happens. But I do understand why people would want to buy from a dealer rather than privately, even if it means paying more, so I can appreciate the comments. Maybe as you say it's not the right car for this approach.

Many thanks everyone for the feedback.

[rog007]

Wilmslowboy said:

However, the private used car market (especially premium/sports) is pants and has been in decline for years.

Not in my experience. Only ever sold my cars privately, and retain my own 100% record of selling to the the first to view.

Trick has been: desireable cars to start with; immaculately presented (detailed just prior to going up for sale) with flawless histories; and priced to sell (I wasn’t greedy or being unrealistic).