Tell me how to drive my 911...
Discussion
Hi all keen drivers, in particular those with experience of rear-engined German sports cars 
(Note to mods: I'm posting this in the General Gassing section as I feel folk who don't necessarily frequent the Porsche section may have some good input here.)
Having enjoyed driving a Nissan 350Z for a couple of years, I have just bought a Porsche 911 - a 2007 Carrera 2S to be precise. Loving it so far, but I'm always keen to improve my driving technique and would be very interested in tips and technique from folks on here about how to handle a 911.
For example, I've heard some on these forums say that going into a corner on the brakes is good in a 911 as it helps get a bit of weight over the front wheels and therefore helps turn-in. OK, no problem with that statement but wouldn't it unsettle the car to then get on the throttle mid-corner? I thought best technique is to do braking in a straight line, then turn in to the corner. Very interested to hear people's thoughts and experiences on this.
Another topic is lift-off oversteer. Is a 911 particularly susceptible? If so how to avoid (apart from "don't lift off" - OK if you're on the throttle mid-corner you want to keep it steady, but you might decide to ease off a bit...)?
Some reviewers talk about the 'pendulum effect' in a 911. Would anyone like to offer a description of what this feels like? I've experienced a feeling whilst going round corners at pace whereby the back end feels like it's coming round or sliding a bit, even though it's definitely not. It more just feels like the car is rotating - definitely not oversteer, just a feeling of rotational shift. Is this the 'pendulum effect'? Or does my car have some parts loose in the suspension?
Comments on the above 3 points, and anything else related to enjoying driving a Porsche 911 safely and smoothly, are hereby invited!
Thanks!
(Note to mods: I'm posting this in the General Gassing section as I feel folk who don't necessarily frequent the Porsche section may have some good input here.)
Having enjoyed driving a Nissan 350Z for a couple of years, I have just bought a Porsche 911 - a 2007 Carrera 2S to be precise. Loving it so far, but I'm always keen to improve my driving technique and would be very interested in tips and technique from folks on here about how to handle a 911.
For example, I've heard some on these forums say that going into a corner on the brakes is good in a 911 as it helps get a bit of weight over the front wheels and therefore helps turn-in. OK, no problem with that statement but wouldn't it unsettle the car to then get on the throttle mid-corner? I thought best technique is to do braking in a straight line, then turn in to the corner. Very interested to hear people's thoughts and experiences on this.
Another topic is lift-off oversteer. Is a 911 particularly susceptible? If so how to avoid (apart from "don't lift off" - OK if you're on the throttle mid-corner you want to keep it steady, but you might decide to ease off a bit...)?
Some reviewers talk about the 'pendulum effect' in a 911. Would anyone like to offer a description of what this feels like? I've experienced a feeling whilst going round corners at pace whereby the back end feels like it's coming round or sliding a bit, even though it's definitely not. It more just feels like the car is rotating - definitely not oversteer, just a feeling of rotational shift. Is this the 'pendulum effect'? Or does my car have some parts loose in the suspension?
Comments on the above 3 points, and anything else related to enjoying driving a Porsche 911 safely and smoothly, are hereby invited!
Thanks!
Way too technical for me to help but I would say I loved driving my 911 C2, it was like a nippy little skate that seemed to love every bend and always had me smiling. I hated driving my 911 Turbo because it felt very floaty on a twisty road and outside of the blistering straightline performance it was incredibly dull.
sam303 said:
Some reviewers talk about the 'pendulum effect' in a 911. Would anyone like to offer a description of what this feels like? I've experienced a feeling whilst going round corners at pace whereby the back end feels like it's coming round or sliding a bit, even though it's definitely not. It more just feels like the car is rotating - definitely not oversteer, just a feeling of rotational shift. Is this the 'pendulum effect'? Or does my car have some parts loose in the suspension?
Only you know what 'pace' you were going but in my rwd (not rear engine mind) car that feeling of coming round/rear wheel steer if you like is normally found on the edge'ish of traction with a steady throttle. In the wet and on a specific downhill slightly off camber road I got this, so be careful, perhaps it's low traction due to the ambient temps right now. When you say it's definitely not oversteer is this because you aren't getting it like you might have the 350Z? It sounds to me like subtle oversteer rather than snap/provoked oversteer.
I think the old reputation of them being very tail happy has now gone but they do compensate to some degree by having really wide rear tyres, and they aren't playfully drifty like most front engine rwd cars.....my last sports car crash witnessed was a 911 backwards into a road sign on an A3 junction just after a roundabout.
May not work on the newer sanitised cars, but on my old 3.2 Carrera Sport (no PAS, no ABS) the trick was to brake in a straight line, get the turn started on a modicum of throttle, lift off abruptly as the car turned in to get the tail moving out, apply progressive opposite lock and floor it for the most marvelous controlled power-slides out of corners, around roundabouts etc. The lift-off, tail out, powerslide-out was such an addictive drug it was hard not to do it on every corner. Not the quickest way down the road or round a track but so satisfying. It's the only handling trait in any car I've ever had that I really miss.
Not specific to a 911 (as I don't have one)...
sam303 said:
For example, I've heard some on these forums say that going into a corner on the brakes is good in a 911 as it helps get a bit of weight over the front wheels and therefore helps turn-in. OK, no problem with that statement but wouldn't it unsettle the car to then get on the throttle mid-corner? I thought best technique is to do braking in a straight line, then turn in to the corner. Very interested to hear people's thoughts and experiences on this.
It depends how quickly you are going from brake to accelerator. The idea with trail braking is to have fast feet so that the suspension doesn't fully unload and bounce you around (or spin you into a ditch) when you switch from braking to accelerating. If done correctly you should go from a nose down aspect to having the car "squatted" in a fairly flat aspect around the turn, if you get it wrong the nose will lift too much and you'll get out of shape.sam303 said:
Another topic is lift-off oversteer. Is a 911 particularly susceptible? If so how to avoid (apart from "don't lift off" - OK if you're on the throttle mid-corner you want to keep it steady, but you might decide to ease off a bit...)?
You can ease off without getting lift off oversteer, just be progressive, don't snap the throttle shut and expect it to cope.sam303 said:
Some reviewers talk about the 'pendulum effect' in a 911. Would anyone like to offer a description of what this feels like? I've experienced a feeling whilst going round corners at pace whereby the back end feels like it's coming round or sliding a bit, even though it's definitely not. It more just feels like the car is rotating - definitely not oversteer, just a feeling of rotational shift. Is this the 'pendulum effect'? Or does my car have some parts loose in the suspension?
There will be some play (compliance is the usual term) in the suspension since it has lots of moving parts and some of them are rubber. That is probably what you're feeling.Why not make a trip to the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone?? £295 well spent.
https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/
https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/
I have had mine a year now so still a beginner but fwiw.....
I have found it the most frustrating car to get right. I don't think the technique is that different to other cars I have driven but it does expose errors in my technique and makes it easy to spot rough driving.
Brakes are the thing I have had to focus on most. I had historically developed a style of progressively applying the brake but coming off the brake pedal quite sharply to get to the throttle. The 911 is making me do the opposite. Mine works best when I brake very hard and get to the threshold quickly but come off the brake pedal more gradually. (hope that make sense).
If you have not yet done so I recommend finding the limits of your brakes and tyres in a straight line (where it is safe to do so) with a series of high-ish speed emergency stops that trigger ABS. You might just be surprised how effectively the car can shed speed. Practise slowly coming off the brake and feel the weight shift.
As for trail braking. Firstly I would never condone carrying speed into or out of a bend that is imprudent given your sight lines. That said I nearly always brake to the apex when I am driving for fun and the people who will rant about that being unsafe on public roads are simply wrong. The smoothest most organic feeling bends you will get, IMHO, will come from: Very hard late braking followed by a smooth gradual release of the brake pedal (turning in at the same time) then smartly over the the throttle (combined with a touch on anticipatory opposition lock) and WOT as you feel the rear squat a little. Ymmv etc. One of the nicest thing about the 911 imo is that, because the rear tyres will wear out quicker anyway, you can dish out some abuse to the fronts with impunity.
That weight shift you feel without losing traction I guess (as someone earlier said) is compliance. My engine is compliantly mounted and can be felt to shift with the suspension. Switching to sports plus mode makes an obvious difference to this sensation, at least on the 991 anyway. In my experience this is felt a long way before traction breaks. On a dry road at least, you'd have to be a loony to really get the the back out the highway.
I guess the pendulum effect just refers to the extra difficulty of avoiding over-correction of yaw with opposite lock and not unwinding it fast enough as the car come back upon line. Because of the weight distribution it might be harder to get right first time? I don't really know tbh. I have driven a 911 on hard snow and didnt find it that much different to other cars on the day. In normal driving, with season appropriate tyres, in good conditions, it just shouldn't be a factor.
I have found it the most frustrating car to get right. I don't think the technique is that different to other cars I have driven but it does expose errors in my technique and makes it easy to spot rough driving.
Brakes are the thing I have had to focus on most. I had historically developed a style of progressively applying the brake but coming off the brake pedal quite sharply to get to the throttle. The 911 is making me do the opposite. Mine works best when I brake very hard and get to the threshold quickly but come off the brake pedal more gradually. (hope that make sense).
If you have not yet done so I recommend finding the limits of your brakes and tyres in a straight line (where it is safe to do so) with a series of high-ish speed emergency stops that trigger ABS. You might just be surprised how effectively the car can shed speed. Practise slowly coming off the brake and feel the weight shift.
As for trail braking. Firstly I would never condone carrying speed into or out of a bend that is imprudent given your sight lines. That said I nearly always brake to the apex when I am driving for fun and the people who will rant about that being unsafe on public roads are simply wrong. The smoothest most organic feeling bends you will get, IMHO, will come from: Very hard late braking followed by a smooth gradual release of the brake pedal (turning in at the same time) then smartly over the the throttle (combined with a touch on anticipatory opposition lock) and WOT as you feel the rear squat a little. Ymmv etc. One of the nicest thing about the 911 imo is that, because the rear tyres will wear out quicker anyway, you can dish out some abuse to the fronts with impunity.
That weight shift you feel without losing traction I guess (as someone earlier said) is compliance. My engine is compliantly mounted and can be felt to shift with the suspension. Switching to sports plus mode makes an obvious difference to this sensation, at least on the 991 anyway. In my experience this is felt a long way before traction breaks. On a dry road at least, you'd have to be a loony to really get the the back out the highway.
I guess the pendulum effect just refers to the extra difficulty of avoiding over-correction of yaw with opposite lock and not unwinding it fast enough as the car come back upon line. Because of the weight distribution it might be harder to get right first time? I don't really know tbh. I have driven a 911 on hard snow and didnt find it that much different to other cars on the day. In normal driving, with season appropriate tyres, in good conditions, it just shouldn't be a factor.
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