carrera 4S - 4x4 or 2 wheel drive?

[grand cherokee]

help please

looking for one of the above as a 'fine weather' car - have a Range Rover L405 for winter/snow etc

very interested in a 2012 400bhp car in guards red but only two wheel drive at about £64K

also on offer a 2011 car with 4x4 only 385bhp but only £54K

spoken to main dealer who has said basically unless you want to drive the car in snow/ice the two wheel drive car is lighter/faster/ better handling

also its the later model

owners opinions appreciated and if you have a good car for sale mail me - in Notts

many thanks

[sidicks]

grand cherokee said:

help please

looking for one of the above as a 'fine weather' car - have a Range Rover L405 for winter/snow etc

very interested in a 2012 400bhp car in guards red but only two wheel drive at about £64K

also on offer a 2011 car with 4x4 only 385bhp but only £54K

spoken to main dealer who has said basically unless you want to drive the car in snow/ice the two wheel drive car is lighter/faster/ better handling

also its the later model

owners opinions appreciated and if you have a good car for sale mail me - in Notts

many thanks

The Carrera 2S is rear wheel drive. The Carrera 4S is four wheel drive.

Clearly the 2WD car is lighter, but 4WD helps to offset this on a standing start. I think the handling of the 991 Carrera 4S was preferred by Evo magazine over the 2WD model, but handling for both will be similar, particularly when driving on public roads.

i owned a (997) C4S for 8 years and it was exemplary in all conditions - I'm sure a C2S would have done admirably well in the same conditions, particularly if you invested in winter tyres.

[Magic919]

Just work out whether you want a 997 or 991. I wouldn't get too hung up on C2S/C4S differences.

[grand cherokee]

sidicks said:

The Carrera 2S is rear wheel drive. The Carrera 4S is four wheel drive.

Clearly the 2WD car is lighter, but 4WD helps to offset this on a standing start. I think the handling of the 991 Carrera 4S was preferred by Evo magazine over the 2WD model, but handling for both will be similar, particularly when driving on public roads.

i owned a (997) C4S for 8 years and it was exemplary in all conditions - I'm sure a C2S would have done admirably well in the same conditions, particularly if you invested in winter tyres.

my apologies for getting things wrong - my last Porsche was over fifteen years go - no abs/traction control - downhill bends in the wet and it would 'swap ends' with no warning!!

as I have the Range Rover for winter then two wheel drive seems to be the best option

if you want to see the car in question its on the web site of Porsche Nottingham - any/all comments appreciated

[grand cherokee]

Magic919 said:

Just work out whether you want a 997 or 991. I wouldn't get too hung up on C2S/C4S differences.

thanks

as I said I'm new to Porsche after about fifteen years

could you advise on the merits or otherwise of the 997/991 please?

[sidicks]

grand cherokee said:

my apologies for getting things wrong - my last Porsche was over fifteen years go - no abs/traction control - downhill bends in the wet and it would 'swap ends' with no warning!!

as I have the Range Rover for winter then two wheel drive seems to be the best option

if you want to see the car in question its on the web site of Porsche Nottingham - any/all comments appreciated

The Red C2S is an auto (PDK) gearbox - is that what you are looking for?

The car has the Sport Design steering wheel (with Paddles) which, in my view, is a good complement to the PDK gearbox.

Aside from that the specification has the things expected - Sat Nav etc, but not some of the optional extras that do add appeal (full leather dash, adaptive sports seats etc).

[grand cherokee]

sidicks said:

The Red C2S is an auto (PDK) gearbox - is that what you are looking for?

The car has the Sport Design steering wheel (with Paddles) which, in my view, is a good complement to the PDK gearbox.

Aside from that the specification has the things expected - Sat Nav etc, but not some of the optional extras that do add appeal (full leather dash, adaptive sports seats etc).

thank you very much - yes the auto is what I want with my knackered hip

what about the price?

it will be cash

[supermono]

Not sure the 4wd will help avoid swapping ends on off camber corners in the wet, having a slightly positive throttle through the corner will help avoid that in both variants. Also the newer the generation the less likely it is to do that anyway.

[uktrailmonster]

I prefer the 4S variants, handling is wife-proof in all weather. But if I was buying one just to use on sunny days I'd probably choose 2S for simplicity and cost. Personally I think the 4S has a nicer balance with a little more weight over the front axle, but I bet you'd struggle to tell any difference in real world driving.

997 vs 991 not as much in it as I thought there would be. 991 is even more refined, lighter steering feel, etc, etc. But not that different a driving experience overall. It's just incrementally "better" in an objective kind of way.

[Mario149]

As someone has already alluded to, the decision should be based more on do you want a 997 or 991 and whether you want a manual, a PDK with buttons, or a PDK with paddles.

As for 2wd vs 4wd, given the choice of 2 identical cars I'd nearly always go 2wd, but I wouldn't turn down a 997 or newer car for being 4wd if it fit my other requirements. 4wd is not necessary in terms of traction or safety, but some will prefer how the steering feels and how the car reacts beyond grip limits. Personally I like the fact that 2wd is 50kg or so lighter and a bit more hooliganny when the moment takes me. Outright pace (in adverse conditions or otherwise) is less important to me

Only other things I would say are:

1) get the geo on the car done, differences between 2wd and 4wd feel will be irrelevant if the alignment is out which it almost certainly will be
2) if you're going to use it in the winter, invest in some winter tyres, they make a hell of a difference (far more than 4wd or not) even in cold/wet conditions when there is no snow

[Ape50]

Whats the typical cost for getting the geo done ? Will it eliminate understeer ? Been thinking about this on my new 997 C2S.

[g7jhp]

grand cherokee said:

my apologies for getting things wrong - my last Porsche was over fifteen years go - no abs/traction control - downhill bends in the wet and it would 'swap ends' with no warning!!

as I have the Range Rover for winter then two wheel drive seems to be the best option

if you want to see the car in question its on the web site of Porsche Nottingham - any/all comments appreciated

Your last 911 must have been a pre-1989 model?

Still shouldn't have been swapping ends unless you hit ice, diesel or were pushing beyond your limits.

The C2S should be fine, I believe the C4S has a more rear bias split of power which can be moved to the front wheels as required. 991 or 997 depends on preference and budget, plus if you need warranty.

[Mario149]

Ape50 said:

Whats the typical cost for getting the geo done ? Will it eliminate understeer ? Been thinking about this on my new 997 C2S.

Should only be 1.5-2 hours of labour at a regular specialist if you want factory settings / settings you provide. If you go somewhere like Center Gravity, it's a lot more as they'll go through the suspension with a fine tooth comb, replace anything that needs replacing, then do a geo to your specifications where you can test it out and get them to tweak it until you're happy.

You can have understeer minimised, I did on my 993 at CG, but the outfit will need to know what they're doing and suggest settings or you'll have to provide settings

[supermono]

It's not just the geo it's wear in shocks and bushes etc. My car had a visit to CG three years ago for a full refresh and that included sending off the shocks to Bilstein for a rebuild and replacing various bits running to as I recall close to 4k. The geo done at the end was the small bit and yes sorted the understeer a bit giving me a direct steering car which doesn't go light and vague at the front as power is applied mid-corner.

This year I took it back for a reset since MOT threw up some shock issue and it was only 700 quid including replacing a pair of rear diagonal arms. Shocks were fine, MOT tester wasn't.

Carreras don't have rebuildable shocks as far as I know so they can be tested for efficiency and replaced, but with a car over 40-50k there's a chance it'll be more than geo to sort it.

[Mario149]

supermono said:

It's not just the geo it's wear in shocks and bushes etc.

[grand cherokee]

thanks for all your comments/advice

I'm getting a test drive in the car this week

they have agreed to bring it to me so I can drive it on roads I know - that is to me the only way I can 'understand' the car

plenty of rural roads often with less than a perfect surface - so need to see how it behaves when pushed on these roads

by the way - sorry to appear more stupid than normal - what is geo?

I'm guessing steering geometry?

Edited by grand cherokee on Monday 6th July 12:36

[uktrailmonster]

grand cherokee said:

plenty of rural roads often with less than a perfect surface - so need to see how it behaves when pushed on these roads

Those are the sort of roads I drive my 997 4S on and it handles them very nicely for a sports car. Not harsh at all and doesn't get thrown off line easily by adverse camber, mid-corner bumps etc. I've driven the 991 4GTS on our local roads too and the ride was even better (even with the 20" rims). Porsche do a great job of the ride/handling compromise for UK roads. I never use the sport setting on the dampers either, just makes the ride jiggly for no gain. I'm sure it would be better on a track, but that's a very different environment.

[Mario149]

grand cherokee said:

by the way - sorry to appear more stupid than normal - what is geo?

No worries It's geometry i.e. 4-wheel alignment

[sidicks]

The good thing about Centre Gravity is that you can have a detailed discussion if you are an expert, but they will also take time to explain things in layman's terms if you are not!

Edited by sidicks on Monday 6th July 13:48

[Ian_UK1]

sidicks said:

The good thing about Centre Gravity is that you can have a detailed discussion if you are an expert, but ey will also take time to explain things in layman's terms if you are not!

This, many times over. Can't recommend CG highly enough.