997.1 turbo prices
Discussion
Been looking to purchase a 997.1 turbo with manual gearbox for the last few weeks.
Viewed a back 59 plate with 29,000miles last week for £54k (advertised for £57k). As it didn't have sports chrono told the dealer that I would have a think prior to placing a deposit. Unfortunately it was sold the following morning to a trader, it is now advertised for £60k.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
A red 09plate was also advertised last week for £55k, that car has now also been sold to the trade.
I'm amazed as the trade value of these cars is around £45k not £54k !!
Are prices following in the footsteps of the GT3?
Will hopefully find a low mileage 2009 model in black soon
Viewed a back 59 plate with 29,000miles last week for £54k (advertised for £57k). As it didn't have sports chrono told the dealer that I would have a think prior to placing a deposit. Unfortunately it was sold the following morning to a trader, it is now advertised for £60k.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
A red 09plate was also advertised last week for £55k, that car has now also been sold to the trade.
I'm amazed as the trade value of these cars is around £45k not £54k !!
Are prices following in the footsteps of the GT3?
Will hopefully find a low mileage 2009 model in black soon
Being an owner of a 997.1 manual turbo it would be nice to think they are rising, but I think static would be best description ... this looks good-
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Below £40k you only really found leggy tips
The 1.5 versions have always quite rightly commanded a premium, though at the moment that seems to be around £5k+ which seems nuts for a touchscreen satnav and bluetooth. I think Tomtom do one for a about a £100. Granted pcm2.1 is pants, but it gets me where I need to when I need it and I use my £100 tomtom when I need something better. The other 99% of journeys don't require satnav, need both hands on the wheel and eyes can't leave the road!
J
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Below £40k you only really found leggy tips
The 1.5 versions have always quite rightly commanded a premium, though at the moment that seems to be around £5k+ which seems nuts for a touchscreen satnav and bluetooth. I think Tomtom do one for a about a £100. Granted pcm2.1 is pants, but it gets me where I need to when I need it and I use my £100 tomtom when I need something better. The other 99% of journeys don't require satnav, need both hands on the wheel and eyes can't leave the road!
J
jakesmith said:
They're deffo on the rise, good early 997s were under £40k a while back but no more. Shame as I wanted one but they're moving out of reach. Bound to happen as gt3s rise, other models become more desirable to those who can't afford their first choice any more
Agreed although pushed up more by 996 turbo rises IMHO, mine is probably worth 5-8% more than what I paid a year agoFound it hard to get a good 997.1 manual in black/black and plan to hang on to it, depreciation-free motoring is a bonus
I find PCM 2.1 is fine for my needs, a £800 Mobridge provides excellent BT and reasonable iPod connectivity - £5k premium for a 997.1 with PCM3 is nuts IMHO
Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 14th April 06:44
I think good low mileage examples have moved up in value circa 10%.
You're buying the last Mezger turbo engined car and in my view cars like the one posted links to may even soon be more expensive than DFI PDK gen 2 997 turbos. In five years I expect Mezger 997 turbos to be similarly priced to 991 turbos. I'm not saying this because I have one as mine is a 72000 mile war horse with stone chips all over her and she'll never be worth anything substantial but I can understand why prices are firming up and may continue to do so.
Porsche give you 30bhp-50bhp increase on new turbos if you play their buy a new car every three years on tick game. 996 turbo 420 bhp (X50/S 450bhp). 997.1 turbo 480bhp. 997.2 turbo 500bhp (S 530 bhp). 991 Turbo 530bhp (S 560bhp). Very easy to get a reliable 650-700bhp or even more if you're crazy from a 996 or 997 turbo without too much expense from decent Indys.
With both the 996 and 997.1 turbo even if owners keep them stock they know they have an engine which has its origins in motorsport. The boat on GT3 has sailed hence people looking at the turbo instead.
OP you should have bought the car without delaying. Current market is red hot. Air-cooled cars are selling even quicker in terms of good low mileage examples and I know of good cars that are being bought by enthusiasts behinds the scenes without ever coming on the market..
You're buying the last Mezger turbo engined car and in my view cars like the one posted links to may even soon be more expensive than DFI PDK gen 2 997 turbos. In five years I expect Mezger 997 turbos to be similarly priced to 991 turbos. I'm not saying this because I have one as mine is a 72000 mile war horse with stone chips all over her and she'll never be worth anything substantial but I can understand why prices are firming up and may continue to do so.
Porsche give you 30bhp-50bhp increase on new turbos if you play their buy a new car every three years on tick game. 996 turbo 420 bhp (X50/S 450bhp). 997.1 turbo 480bhp. 997.2 turbo 500bhp (S 530 bhp). 991 Turbo 530bhp (S 560bhp). Very easy to get a reliable 650-700bhp or even more if you're crazy from a 996 or 997 turbo without too much expense from decent Indys.
With both the 996 and 997.1 turbo even if owners keep them stock they know they have an engine which has its origins in motorsport. The boat on GT3 has sailed hence people looking at the turbo instead.
OP you should have bought the car without delaying. Current market is red hot. Air-cooled cars are selling even quicker in terms of good low mileage examples and I know of good cars that are being bought by enthusiasts behinds the scenes without ever coming on the market..
Like of lot of these older cars now they are becoming harder to find. I called up Prestige Cars Kent about the 25k Miler short shift manual they had for £46k that sold pretty quickly. There is another thread on here about clutch slipping issues and a few of the guys on here have gone down the remap route extracting more power and torque out of their cars which only makes unmolested totally original cars harder to find - not that in any way I am against what they doing IMI A's car is a ferocious beast!!
I sold my old 997 Turbo manual just over a yr ago to a dealer for £42k (basalt 27k miles) when prices on these were a little depressed and I think I only got that because I was part-exing for a new car.
All of a sudden 996 turbo prices have really stepped up and without the whole 996 vs 997 debate I think the 997 turbo was for me a better car, it seems only natural that the 997 Turbo would follow.
I think lowish mile unmolested manual Mezgers with pretty much no significant over rev data will be edging closer to £60k now.
I sold my old 997 Turbo manual just over a yr ago to a dealer for £42k (basalt 27k miles) when prices on these were a little depressed and I think I only got that because I was part-exing for a new car.
All of a sudden 996 turbo prices have really stepped up and without the whole 996 vs 997 debate I think the 997 turbo was for me a better car, it seems only natural that the 997 Turbo would follow.
I think lowish mile unmolested manual Mezgers with pretty much no significant over rev data will be edging closer to £60k now.
James44 said:
Don't be fooled by price. I viewed that turbo in early Jan. It was presented poorly, covered in dust, front number plate cracked where it has been backed into, skirts and spoiler tatty from road rash, sunroof seal green with mold. I didn't wait for the vendor to come off the phone and left satisfied it wasn't for me. Would imagine some of the reasons it's still for sale. Good ones don't hang about. 
Steve Baker said:
James44 said:
Don't be fooled by price. I viewed that turbo in early Jan. It was presented poorly, covered in dust, front number plate cracked where it has been backed into, skirts and spoiler tatty from road rash, sunroof seal green with mold. I didn't wait for the vendor to come off the phone and left satisfied it wasn't for me. Would imagine some of the reasons it's still for sale. Good ones don't hang about. look at this car. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
My car has 72000 miles and has a less worn interior than this car. Road rash on all the skirts. I'm no sure as a vendor how you can keep a straight face. Even the passenger seat looks worn lol
I have to admit the prices firming up again are making me think.
I've had a 997tt 1.5 (late 2008 / 2009 MY) for 3.5 years now, it's an absolutely awesome car and it brings a massive smile to my face when those turbos spool up and you get pushed back into the seat, but I always feel guilty at the fact that I don't get to drive it very often so it's done just 16k miles. A few times I've thought about selling it, then I go for a drive and fall in love with it again, then I leave it in the garage for another week or two...
If prices go the way of the GT3s I won't feel so bad as I can start to look at it as "an investment" rather than just an expensive toy! I understand the argument with the Metzger engine and all, and the PCM3 is much better, plus the red tail lights are nice... but will they really rise that far too?
If they do reach 60k for a mint condition manual with FPSH and OPC warranty... well... then I could be tempted. Maybe I might even get a bonus for the fact that Jamie Donaldson (pro golfer, ryder cup winner) was the previous owner!
I've had a 997tt 1.5 (late 2008 / 2009 MY) for 3.5 years now, it's an absolutely awesome car and it brings a massive smile to my face when those turbos spool up and you get pushed back into the seat, but I always feel guilty at the fact that I don't get to drive it very often so it's done just 16k miles. A few times I've thought about selling it, then I go for a drive and fall in love with it again, then I leave it in the garage for another week or two...
If prices go the way of the GT3s I won't feel so bad as I can start to look at it as "an investment" rather than just an expensive toy! I understand the argument with the Metzger engine and all, and the PCM3 is much better, plus the red tail lights are nice... but will they really rise that far too?
If they do reach 60k for a mint condition manual with FPSH and OPC warranty... well... then I could be tempted. Maybe I might even get a bonus for the fact that Jamie Donaldson (pro golfer, ryder cup winner) was the previous owner!
Mate, only my opinion but keep it. If you say it brings a smile to your face every time you drive it then that is enough. I really had to sell mine at the time but I regret it massively and to get a similar car back I would be paying over £50k now. As the owner of a Gen 1.5 as they are called you get all the nice updates together with the Mezger engine. I agree that feeling you get when those turbos spool up and it shoves you into the seat is priceless...enjoy!!
Without extending the debate too far, to be fair the gen2 Turbo DFI engine seems to be pretty robust too doesn't it?..be Good to hear from anyone with personal experiences.
Without extending the debate too far, to be fair the gen2 Turbo DFI engine seems to be pretty robust too doesn't it?..be Good to hear from anyone with personal experiences.
IMIA said:
there is a heck of a lot of shyte around mutton dressed as lamb.
look at this car. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
My car has 72000 miles and has a less worn interior than this car. Road rash on all the skirts. I'm no sure as a vendor how you can keep a straight face. Even the passenger seat looks worn lol
'Buy on condition' is an oft quoted phrase and is so true where 997 are concerned. I have always bought low mileage cars in the past but when looking to replace the C2 I was shocked by the poor standard of Turbos for sale. The plastic bits don't wear nearly as well as the metal silled variants. The Diamond cut alloys seem to chip and corrode easier. When you find a good one it is a bit of a surprise. The one I bought had 50k miles on it but interior shows virtually no wear......credit to previous fastidious owners ! They are out there but no doubt justify a premium.look at this car. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
My car has 72000 miles and has a less worn interior than this car. Road rash on all the skirts. I'm no sure as a vendor how you can keep a straight face. Even the passenger seat looks worn lol
berty37 said:
Mate, only my opinion but keep it. If you say it brings a smile to your face every time you drive it then that is enough. I really had to sell mine at the time but I regret it massively and to get a similar car back I would be paying over £50k now. As the owner of a Gen 1.5 as they are called you get all the nice updates together with the Mezger engine. I agree that feeling you get when those turbos spool up and it shoves you into the seat is priceless...enjoy!!
Without extending the debate too far, to be fair the gen2 Turbo DFI engine seems to be pretty robust too doesn't it?..be Good to hear from anyone with personal experiences.
I know... that's the problem, when I sold my 996 C4S I regretted it so much that I bought another a couple of years later before swapping that for the 997tt, and I know the same thing will happen again. Without extending the debate too far, to be fair the gen2 Turbo DFI engine seems to be pretty robust too doesn't it?..be Good to hear from anyone with personal experiences.
I've mollycoddled this turbo since having it, with inspections, borescopes, OPC warranties and servicing and regular oil changes so I know it's perfect and I always thought it was a "keeper", I'm probably just suffering from itchy feet syndrome after having had it longer than any other car I've ever owned, and I'm not used to the idea of them going up in value!
Good for you mate sounds like a minter - and thats the point whereas I doubt these cars will be in short supply, people will pay higher cash for one like yours..I know i would. I saw another very good 06 car with only 14k miles on but I heard when it was inspected it had quite a few over revs - I know that doesnt bother some but a car that has not and an exemplary ECU will attract more premium. Also you mentioned bore scoring there...I didnt think that affected the Turbos and GT cars because the design was different and the components were of much higher quality - happy to be corrected on this.
It doesn't, but there's a story behind it!
I bought the car privately following an OPC 111 point check which it passed with flying colours, and I wanted to put the OPC warranty on it, to do that I had to wait for 3 months and then have the 111 point check again. Between the two checks Porsche GB changed the rules on over-revs for the warranty, and the car had just 6 ignitions in rev range 2 (nothing in ranges 3-6) about 2 years beforehand, but because of this they now wanted the OPC to do an inspection of the engine, including slicing open the oil filter and looking for particles, checking the coolant, inspecting the turbo venturi, etc. Whilst they were doing this I had them do a full-on check of the engine, borescope and all, to see if I had anything to worry about. It passed (again) with clean bill of health and I got the OPC warranty and peace of mind.
Another indy I worked with in the past said these engine blocks are bulletproof, I know a few have had problems but I understand it's a bit rarer than the standard block. Knowing this, and that it was good when I bought it, have made me think its one to hold on to. As you said there's a lot of really poor ones out there, I also saw a few when buying that made me shiver (lots of over-revs in ranges 4 and 5), and I wouldn't run one without a warranty as the costs could be crippling if something went wrong.
I bought the car privately following an OPC 111 point check which it passed with flying colours, and I wanted to put the OPC warranty on it, to do that I had to wait for 3 months and then have the 111 point check again. Between the two checks Porsche GB changed the rules on over-revs for the warranty, and the car had just 6 ignitions in rev range 2 (nothing in ranges 3-6) about 2 years beforehand, but because of this they now wanted the OPC to do an inspection of the engine, including slicing open the oil filter and looking for particles, checking the coolant, inspecting the turbo venturi, etc. Whilst they were doing this I had them do a full-on check of the engine, borescope and all, to see if I had anything to worry about. It passed (again) with clean bill of health and I got the OPC warranty and peace of mind.
Another indy I worked with in the past said these engine blocks are bulletproof, I know a few have had problems but I understand it's a bit rarer than the standard block. Knowing this, and that it was good when I bought it, have made me think its one to hold on to. As you said there's a lot of really poor ones out there, I also saw a few when buying that made me shiver (lots of over-revs in ranges 4 and 5), and I wouldn't run one without a warranty as the costs could be crippling if something went wrong.
gd said:
It doesn't, but there's a story behind it!
I bought the car privately following an OPC 111 point check which it passed with flying colours, and I wanted to put the OPC warranty on it, to do that I had to wait for 3 months and then have the 111 point check again. Between the two checks Porsche GB changed the rules on over-revs for the warranty, and the car had just 6 ignitions in rev range 2 (nothing in ranges 3-6) about 2 years beforehand, but because of this they now wanted the OPC to do an inspection of the engine, including slicing open the oil filter and looking for particles, checking the coolant, inspecting the turbo venturi, etc. Whilst they were doing this I had them do a full-on check of the engine, borescope and all, to see if I had anything to worry about. It passed (again) with clean bill of health and I got the OPC warranty and peace of mind.
Another indy I worked with in the past said these engine blocks are bulletproof, I know a few have had problems but I understand it's a bit rarer than the standard block. Knowing this, and that it was good when I bought it, have made me think its one to hold on to. As you said there's a lot of really poor ones out there, I also saw a few when buying that made me shiver (lots of over-revs in ranges 4 and 5), and I wouldn't run one without a warranty as the costs could be crippling if something went wrong.
That is ridiculous by OPC, range 3 is hitting the rev limiter before an up shift I believe, not an issue IMHO and quite easy to do in a turbo, mine had one range 4 lasting a fraction of second, zero 5 and 6, plenty of 3s (I know I added a few getting used to the car). Nine Excellence (who i trust far more than an OPC) said nothing to worry about at all, especially the range 3sI bought the car privately following an OPC 111 point check which it passed with flying colours, and I wanted to put the OPC warranty on it, to do that I had to wait for 3 months and then have the 111 point check again. Between the two checks Porsche GB changed the rules on over-revs for the warranty, and the car had just 6 ignitions in rev range 2 (nothing in ranges 3-6) about 2 years beforehand, but because of this they now wanted the OPC to do an inspection of the engine, including slicing open the oil filter and looking for particles, checking the coolant, inspecting the turbo venturi, etc. Whilst they were doing this I had them do a full-on check of the engine, borescope and all, to see if I had anything to worry about. It passed (again) with clean bill of health and I got the OPC warranty and peace of mind.
Another indy I worked with in the past said these engine blocks are bulletproof, I know a few have had problems but I understand it's a bit rarer than the standard block. Knowing this, and that it was good when I bought it, have made me think its one to hold on to. As you said there's a lot of really poor ones out there, I also saw a few when buying that made me shiver (lots of over-revs in ranges 4 and 5), and I wouldn't run one without a warranty as the costs could be crippling if something went wrong.
D16RR_Rich said:
Been looking to purchase a 997.1 turbo with manual gearbox for the last few weeks.
Viewed a back 59 plate with 29,000miles last week for £54k (advertised for £57k). As it didn't have sports chrono told the dealer that I would have a think prior to placing a deposit. Unfortunately it was sold the following morning to a trader, it is now advertised for £60k.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
A red 09plate was also advertised last week for £55k, that car has now also been sold to the trade.
I'm amazed as the trade value of these cars is around £45k not £54k !!
Are prices following in the footsteps of the GT3?
Will hopefully find a low mileage 2009 model in black soon
I enquired about the red car, they would have taken 54k for it; what dealer has it now? And I'm guessing it's up for 60k?!Viewed a back 59 plate with 29,000miles last week for £54k (advertised for £57k). As it didn't have sports chrono told the dealer that I would have a think prior to placing a deposit. Unfortunately it was sold the following morning to a trader, it is now advertised for £60k.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
A red 09plate was also advertised last week for £55k, that car has now also been sold to the trade.
I'm amazed as the trade value of these cars is around £45k not £54k !!
Are prices following in the footsteps of the GT3?
Will hopefully find a low mileage 2009 model in black soon
D16RR_Rich said:
The red one was purchased by a trader from Porsche Cambrige
Maybe I have just not considered the possibility before but I didn't think an OPC would buy from trade and resell, or be interested in stocking much older variants. Thought their only source of older cars would be PX.Unless it was a specific customer request to find a 997.1 turbo
Adam B said:
Maybe I have just not considered the possibility before but I didn't think an OPC would buy from trade and resell, or be interested in stocking much older variants. Thought their only source of older cars would be PX.
Unless it was a specific customer request to find a 997.1 turbo
I was misinformed, the red one was purchased by ASM Performance who also purchased the black 59plate car that I was interested inUnless it was a specific customer request to find a 997.1 turbo
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