2010 997.2 Turbo vs 991 C2S

[piston3461]

Looking at my next DD.Driving them both on Saturday but keen for opinions from fellow owners. Both at 11,000kms. Something tells me once I experience the Turbos acceleration that alone will be enough to seal the deal....

[IMI A]

its a very close thing between the two cars. 991's better exhaust note makes the car much more of an event. turbos pace is comical.

[Koln-RS]

I've driven a 997 Turbo'S' and several 991 C2'S's, plus a C4'S'.

IMO the Turbo had impressive capabilities, with phenomenal acceleration. But, the 991s are notably improved in several key areas, especially for DD use.

My favourite would be the C4'S' - the chassis felt better than the Turbo, the steering felt better than the C2, it has the PSE which sounded fantastic, but you need to use Sport or Sport+ to get maximum performance.

[bing]

997 TT acceleration and phenomenal

[piston3461]

This 991 doesn't have the sports exhaust, but it is being sold through the premier Porsche dealer in the country. Can they retrofit one if I desired?

[Callughan]

Koln-RS said:

I've driven a 997 Turbo'S' and several 991 C2'S's, plus a C4'S'.

IMO the Turbo had impressive capabilities, with phenomenal acceleration. But, the 991s are notably improved in several key areas, especially for DD use.

My favourite would be the C4'S' - the chassis felt better than the Turbo, the steering felt better than the C2, it has the PSE which sounded fantastic, but you need to use Sport or Sport+ to get maximum performance.

This mirrors my experience. Only thing is turbo has higher kudos but would take 7.2t over 91c2s but not 91c4s but must have sports chrono and pse.

[piston3461]

Drove a C2S with PDK.

Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me.
Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup.

Now to drive the turbo.

[IMI A]

piston3461 said:

Drove a C2S with PDK.

Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me.
Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup.

Now to drive the turbo.

You won't like steering on the turbo then. Its vague and imprecise compared to a C2S. It will drop an E92 like a stone though in terms of performance.

Edited to add I had not realised it was a 991 C2s you had tested when comparing steering to 997 turbo. I've spent a few weeks in a 991 C2s and thought it was fabulous. Just couldn't get over the £60k change over figure to chop a 997 turbo in for a 991 C2S. The styling on the 991 isn't quite as pretty as 997 IMO either but 991 way better car.

Edited by IMI A on Saturday 7th June 13:59

[s2000db]

But then the steering is not electric either, might not be as bad as you expect....

[Callughan]

piston3461 said:

Drove a C2S with PDK.

Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me.
Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup.

Now to drive the turbo.

Surprised to hear this, did it have sports chrono?

[rosino]

Callughan said:

piston3461 said:

Drove a C2S with PDK.

Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me.
Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup.

Now to drive the turbo.

Surprised to hear this, did it have sports chrono?

Very strange. I was coming out of an M3 DCT and when I test-drove the 991 S pdk I knew immediately I had signed away a lot of money.. the box was so much better it was not even comparable, truly. And the noise with PSE and fell-good factor were also clearly above. Cabin feels way more special too, the only downside was the Nav of the E92 (I had the facelift model) which was clearly superior (second screen aside for the 991 which never failed to impress..)

As for the turbo.. I think speed novelty factor will wear off quickly, especially if you want to keep your licence for more than a few days. The n/a feeling, immediacy and crispness of the S I subjectively think gives much more satisfaction.. I have a friend with a 997.1 Turbo and he tells me that when they give him a replacement S he enjoys it more on B-roads mixed driving.

Not to mention the cabin of the 991 compared to 997.2 which is 10 years ahead..

[f1ashgordon]

To be fair, the 991 S is so competent that at sane speeds you don't really get the rear engined characteristic feel of a 911, so much so, that cabin aside it isn't really going to feel altogether different to the M3.
And around those speeds it isn't even that much faster. An extended drive might convince though.
Not driven a 997.2 turbo, but with PCM3.0 it's not 10yrs dated compared to the 991, aside from the extra screen (which is cool) and Bluetooth streaming, it's up to date.

[Carl_Docklands]

The 991s interior is only superior if you like BMWs, in many respects it's a step back and I very much hope that the 918 interior is adopted quickly and the panamera interior binned. Major mistake by Porsche to use it on the sports cars.

The Turbo can be quite an event to drive if specced well, I find the bog standard cars without Aerokit and buckets a bit bland.

In terms of drive they are far apart in terms of comparison, I do a lot of A road and M way driving and the turbo gives total control over the road and a sense of power that the carrera can't match. It's highly addictive fun and safe (driver dependent!).

The 991 is too big for B road attack, I would sooner buy a boxster/cayman for that.

[tjlees]

Tough one.

For me its 997.2 Turbo with an after market exhaust.

The 991 C2S is a game changer in terms of cabin quality and ride, but 997.2 is such a spectacular performer on A or B roads. The feel and handling of the CS2 IMHO slightly worse than the 997.2 Turbo - later version maybe better following the 991 GT3/Turbo improvement on the electric power steering but not 12 months ago.

I took the 997.2 Turbo to Craig's Hypermax, mainly because of the bad weather, and the drive was wondrous. I forgot how good the handling is and the stellar performance. It made short work of depatching the slow traffic that annoyingly gets in the way on a fast romp cross county to BPG.

..and then onto hypermax, 0-100 in 7.5secs followed by an indicated 201 on the speedo just like that. No problem in scrubbing the speed off with those ceramics to take the first corner. The brunters back corners showed how well the 997.2 holds on achieving 100+ on my favourite fast corner. A complete hoot. I could have done some drifting, such is the confidence that this machine inspires, but previous experience showed that the brunters thought police normally take a dim view of this.

I know that its not a challenging drive as some (but neither is the 991 C2S) but on a track its fking quick, confident and with a after market exhaust sound glorious!

[Mermaid]

Tough one for sure.

50/50 for me, but do think the Turbo thrill might wear off after a while if I still have my licence.

[piston3461]

rosino said:

Very strange. I was coming out of an M3 DCT and when I test-drove the 991 S pdk I knew immediately I had signed away a lot of money.. the box was so much better it was not even comparable, truly. And the noise with PSE and fell-good factor were also clearly above. Cabin feels way more special too, the only downside was the Nav of the E92 (I had the facelift model) which was clearly superior (second screen aside for the 991 which never failed to impress..)

As for the turbo.. I think speed novelty factor will wear off quickly, especially if you want to keep your licence for more than a few days. The n/a feeling, immediacy and crispness of the S I subjectively think gives much more satisfaction.. I have a friend with a 997.1 Turbo and he tells me that when they give him a replacement S he enjoys it more on B-roads mixed driving.

Not to mention the cabin of the 991 compared to 997.2 which is 10 years ahead..

It had the sports chrono package. The PDK is better than the M DCT without a doubt in terms of smoothness, it shifts faster but with less drama. There aren't any neck snapping shifts. Auto mode is amazing to potter along in. Rear traction was phenomenally better in the 911, I was flooring it on a damp road with no SC or TC intrusion at all.

Sound was great, loved having it fill your ears from behind. However the sound on sharp downshifts for me never had that zing than the M V8 would produce. As it revs less than the M3 it also didn't rev match as high, so that probably played a part. However it wasn't equipped with the PSE which I am told makes a big difference.

Cabin is better, but considering the price it was disappointing to have a hard touch dash and door cards like you would find on a base model econobox. Extended leather should be standard on every 911 in my eyes.

In terms of speed, felt fairly on par with the M3. Absolutely loved how much lower down I was sitting.

Great car, and if I didn't own the M3 and hadn't driven the new M4 (low to mid range torque is savage and addicting) I probably would have gone for it. But as it stands I'm after more of a jump in performance and something I can scare myself in from time to time but also drive everyday in comfort. The C2S isn't that car for me.

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:50

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:51

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:53

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:56

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:57

Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:59

[tjlees]

piston3461 said:

Great car, and if I didn't own the M3 and hadn't driven the new M4 (low to mid range torque is savage and addicting) I probably would have gone for it. But as it stands I'm after more of a jump in performance and something I can scare myself in from time to time but also drive everyday in comfort. The C2S isn't that car for me.

The turbo is your friend then. Its Ariel Atom quick.

I know these cars are licence losing, but I've been hooning very fast machinery for at least 15 years with no points so far (touch my thick wooden head ). The trick is to have one eye on the rev counter and the other on the speedo. The 997.2 makes this easy by putting both on the same dial . Put it in manual mode and use the flappies or if manual .. err use the heel and toe clutch ... then you will watch the rev dial like a hawk to avoid bouncing off the limiter. That needle is lightning quick when you are pushing on!

You will definitely get a jump in performance going from the M3. I went from an M6 to the 997.2 Turbo. It was night and day difference in terms of handling, feel and grin factor ... but little or nothing beats the 8000rpm howl of a V10

[vinnie83]

I have a 997.1 tip turbo, and my cousin had a 991 C4S PDK and I had a good drive in his car.

My opinion is :

The sound is nicer in the 991. The handling felt a little 'soft' for me compared to the 997, his car felt bigger.

The acceleration is nowhere near as impressive in the 991 - the great figures on paper are due to the PDK, the in gear acceleration isn't that impressive compared to the 997.1 turbo.

Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one.

The interior is an improvement, but it's certainly not a bad place to be in the 997:





My cousin however, much prefers the kudos of having the most recent car so for him, having faced the same question (but with a 997.2 turbo S) he chose the 991 C4S.

He did often comment that he was disappointed in the power of his car vs. his previous powerkitted C63 AMG. He only ended up keeping it for about a year.

[FeelingLucky]

vinnie83 said:

Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one.

I've always felt that the two need to be compared side by side, the difference between Gen1 and 2 are so great. When I test drove an Gen2 PDK I was shocked at the advances made.

[vinnie83]

FeelingLucky said:

vinnie83 said:

Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one.

I've always felt that the two need to be compared side by side, the difference between Gen1 and 2 are so great. When I test drove an Gen2 PDK I was shocked at the advances made.

Oh yes the 997.2 is a huge improvement (unless you want to tune) so having felt my 997.1 turbo was better, then I can confidently say that IMO the 997.2 turbo would be the better car, unless not having the latest shape bothers you.