Discussion
I know its all relevant to personal wealth but £167,000 Really!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Quite telling they have 991 turbo in stock. You had to wait all of 12 months for 997 turbo in 2006. Its been priced wrong. Its always historically been a car that takes the fight to Ferrari's junior super car for much much less money. Needs to be 30% cheaper than a new 458. In 18 months guaranteed to blow £50k-£60k on depreciation - I know it doesn't matter its a car etc but by way of comparison thats the sort of depreciation I've suffered on my 997 turbo over 7 years.
I agree that the pricing of the Turbo has gone a bit wrong. It should not be so far out of touch with the GT3. Maybe the plan is to get the Turbo/GT3 floaters to buy GT3s, creating a bigger "splash" in the market and more excitement about that car.
If that is the plan, it appears to be working. We have 50+ GT3 buyers on PH alone (although I expect PHers are disproportionately likely to buy a GT3).
Who is the typical Turbo buyer? Has he (she?) changed now that the GT3 is more "everyday" (although no less brilliant)?
If that is the plan, it appears to be working. We have 50+ GT3 buyers on PH alone (although I expect PHers are disproportionately likely to buy a GT3).
Who is the typical Turbo buyer? Has he (she?) changed now that the GT3 is more "everyday" (although no less brilliant)?
I'm a Turbo buyer and I so want to order a new 991 Turbo S but I'm really hesitating as it is really challenging what I regard as value for money (if such a thing exists with £100k+ cars!). I think the GT3 looks good for £100k but getting one is going to be the issue.
The guy trying to get £167k for his Turbo S has massively mis-judged the market IMHO. The days of paying a premium to avoid the wait on the these cars is over. Their factories are so sophisticated now that they have made massive reductions in lead time a reality and you could probably order that car today and get in in 6-8 weeks. I also reckon you could call round OPCs today and find half a dozen available for sale at list price if you were happy to compromise on spec and lets face it it's pretty much about the right colour as they come with almost "everything" as standard. I know of 3 and haven't looked very hard.
As above, I also believe these cars will take a big hit in their first year. £30k? £40k? Who knows really but there's the thick end of £30k of VAT in the price for starters and when you start to look around at what else you can do with that kind of money (not just cars), it starts to look material in my view.
The guy trying to get £167k for his Turbo S has massively mis-judged the market IMHO. The days of paying a premium to avoid the wait on the these cars is over. Their factories are so sophisticated now that they have made massive reductions in lead time a reality and you could probably order that car today and get in in 6-8 weeks. I also reckon you could call round OPCs today and find half a dozen available for sale at list price if you were happy to compromise on spec and lets face it it's pretty much about the right colour as they come with almost "everything" as standard. I know of 3 and haven't looked very hard.
As above, I also believe these cars will take a big hit in their first year. £30k? £40k? Who knows really but there's the thick end of £30k of VAT in the price for starters and when you start to look around at what else you can do with that kind of money (not just cars), it starts to look material in my view.
Ernesto said:
But who is buying a £100k GT3?
Spec it up to "Turbo S level" and you are well over £115k.
OK, still a £25k difference but not as much as everyone is quoting.
Theres no need to spec the GT3 up to Turbo S spec. £107k will get you into a good spec GT3 with the "required" options to maximise resale value. Unlike the Turbo S which will be produced in greater numbers, anticipated only 250 GT3 UK allocation will further prop up residuals.Spec it up to "Turbo S level" and you are well over £115k.
OK, still a £25k difference but not as much as everyone is quoting.
Aimed at different markets, the Turbo S is a ×ecking fast GT whereas the GT3 is a ×ecking fast sports car which unlike previous models, can be used as a daily driver. Like other Turbos before it, the 991 will inevitably depreciate heavily from its lofty £150k once the honeymoon period is over.....
tjlees said:
Waiting for the honeymoon to be over then ... 
If 997.2 turbo s second values are anything to go by, I would expect a year old secondhand 991 turbo s to be around 115k followed by the usual 10ishk per year loss and 20k on trade in if used as nature intended.
I would say those figures are optimistic. Whilst there will clearly be more Turbos around than GT3s, the residuals will also be governed to some extent by Porsches current intention to restrict supply of cars to the UK in favour of other more lucrative markets.If 997.2 turbo s second values are anything to go by, I would expect a year old secondhand 991 turbo s to be around 115k followed by the usual 10ishk per year loss and 20k on trade in if used as nature intended.
Talking about the 997, I was offered a last of the line high spec 997 Turbo S PDK coupe 350miles 12 62 plate basalt black in March this year for £92k....hows that for depreciation?!
the other me said:
Common as muck ! 
the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.
This is my biggest problem. I've driven the 991 Turbo S as a mate just took delivery of his last week as his new daily driver - I genuinely couldn't own one as I'd fear of losing my license and/or ending up in the clink. the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.It's no way near as fun as my GT3 either as the Turbo S is just so damn fast you end up feeling frustrated at not being able to reach even 50/60% of its capabilities anywhere safely out with a track. You don't need to be near the limit of the GT3 to be having fun.
av185 said:
I would say those figures are optimistic. Whilst there will clearly be more Turbos around than GT3s, the residuals will also be governed to some extent by Porsches current intention to restrict supply of cars to the UK in favour of other more lucrative markets.
Talking about the 997, I was offered a last of the line high spec 997 Turbo S PDK coupe 350miles 12 62 plate basalt black in March this year for £92k....hows that for depreciation?!
Do you mean worse than that for a 991???Talking about the 997, I was offered a last of the line high spec 997 Turbo S PDK coupe 350miles 12 62 plate basalt black in March this year for £92k....hows that for depreciation?!
ClarkPB said:
the other me said:
Common as muck ! the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.
This is my biggest problem. I've driven the 991 Turbo S as a mate just took delivery of his last week as his new daily driver - I genuinely couldn't own one as I'd fear of losing my license and/or ending up in the clink. the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.It's no way near as fun as my GT3 either as the Turbo S is just so damn fast you end up feeling frustrated at not being able to reach even 50/60% of its capabilities anywhere safely out with a track. You don't need to be near the limit of the GT3 to be having fun.
The turbo s is bisteringly fast but so is a gt3. You drive accordingly and enjoy
Sound wise the gt3 is in a league of its own for flat sixes, but a turbo s with an eom exhaust on is much better sound than boxster s I had for a day last month.Btw if you want a balanced road car, the boxster s probably with pse is bang on the money. You have wring its neck to get out the performance you want, the handling is incredibly well balanced and in the latest version you don't look like a hairdresser on their day off.
tjlees said:
av185 said:
I would say those figures are optimistic. Whilst there will clearly be more Turbos around than GT3s, the residuals will also be governed to some extent by Porsches current intention to restrict supply of cars to the UK in favour of other more lucrative markets.
Talking about the 997, I was offered a last of the line high spec 997 Turbo S PDK coupe 350miles 12 62 plate basalt black in March this year for £92k....hows that for depreciation?!
Do you mean worse than that for a 991???Talking about the 997, I was offered a last of the line high spec 997 Turbo S PDK coupe 350miles 12 62 plate basalt black in March this year for £92k....hows that for depreciation?!
ClarkPB said:
the other me said:
Common as muck ! the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.
This is my biggest problem. I've driven the 991 Turbo S as a mate just took delivery of his last week as his new daily driver - I genuinely couldn't own one as I'd fear of losing my license and/or ending up in the clink. the price difference between Turbo s & gt3 is a (bad) joke. Now that they have made the gt3 so much more "user friendly" it strikes me as the obvious choice. Lot of wedge for that "turbo thrust", which will see you locked up without going beyond 2nd gear.It's no way near as fun as my GT3 either as the Turbo S is just so damn fast you end up feeling frustrated at not being able to reach even 50/60% of its capabilities anywhere safely out with a track. You don't need to be near the limit of the GT3 to be having fun.
The turbo s is bisteringly fast but so is a gt3. You drive accordingly and enjoy
Sound wise the gt3 is in a league of its own for flat sixes, but a turbo s with an eom exhaust on is much better sound than boxster s I had for a day last month.Btw if you want a balanced road car, the boxster s probably with pse is bang on the money. You have wring its neck to get out the performance you want, the handling is incredibly well balanced and in the latest version you don't look like a hairdresser on their day off.
IMI A said:
Have u got the loud version i.e. EP2 or milder version? Been thinking about doing the same on my gen 1 at some stage
Normal version. Its only relatively loud above 4500 and very good on the motorway. If you want a loud version, look at nine excellence exhaust, iirc its titanium and has a flap that opens above 4500.Nine excellence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1LLe2PUCXs & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RkZgZFhNBo
Europipe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xKoUnD21Qw & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnFNP0QVlBw
DMS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3aA_kalnM
Tubi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSuUNWs6yE & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4jslocKzU
Milltek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LO326QVsA
tjlees said:
IMI A said:
Have u got the loud version i.e. EP2 or milder version? Been thinking about doing the same on my gen 1 at some stage
Normal version. Its only relatively loud above 4500 and very good on the motorway. If you want a loud version, look at nine excellence exhaust, iirc its titanium and has a flap that opens above 4500.Nine excellence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1LLe2PUCXs & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RkZgZFhNBo
Europipe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xKoUnD21Qw & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnFNP0QVlBw
DMS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3aA_kalnM
Tubi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSuUNWs6yE & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4jslocKzU
Milltek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LO326QVsA
IMI A said:
tjlees said:
IMI A said:
Have u got the loud version i.e. EP2 or milder version? Been thinking about doing the same on my gen 1 at some stage
Normal version. Its only relatively loud above 4500 and very good on the motorway. If you want a loud version, look at nine excellence exhaust, iirc its titanium and has a flap that opens above 4500.Nine excellence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1LLe2PUCXs & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RkZgZFhNBo
Europipe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xKoUnD21Qw & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnFNP0QVlBw
DMS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3aA_kalnM
Tubi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSuUNWs6yE & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4jslocKzU
Milltek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LO326QVsA
. Worth having a chat with Sports and Classic ( http://www.sportsandclassic.com/index.php?page=pro... )I've only heard 3 in the flesh - europipe normal version is good if you do not want an outright loud exhaust from the word go and is a definitely joy to hear from the inside of the car. The nine excellence titanium, 100 cell with the progammable flaps is louder on full chat - the sound is deeper in comparison to europipe and sounds more like a GT2 and as near a GT3 sound as you are probably going to get. The Quicksilver is another one worth hearing. Vmax ( http://www.vmax200.com) is a good event to go to if you want to see a bunch of Porches with oem exhausts at full chat
- helped me choose.I particularly like the europipe exhaust when the car starts from cold - an unbelievably loud rumbling, burbling sound - and when you put the sport plus button on and take it relatively slowly to 5500 then change up, repeat, slow down, change down
- now add your favorite 2nd/3rd gear B road, throw in some english sunshine - enjoy.Edited by tjlees on Saturday 16th November 22:03
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