Which sports cats to use on a 997.1 C2S

[MadMark911]

Anyone got any recommendations based on price / quality?

MM.

[MadMark911]

The shortlist seems to be:

AWE Sports Cats (available from Regal Autosport) Retail £1,175.48

Design Tek (no idea who makes them for Design911) £995

Cargraphic: CARP97KATOBD2 Steel sport catalytic set 200 Cells, OBD2 compliant, 3.6L/3.8L Price:
1.595,00 EUR /4 (£1290?)

Eurocup 997 Carrera & S High Flow Cats
Made from high grade 304 stainless steel. Price is per pair. 100 Cell Cats £644.82 inc VAT

So the cheapest is the Eurocup and the most highly recommended (mostly
across the pond) is the AWE stuff ....

[V8KSN]

Hi Mark

Sorry I cant help you on which sports cats to get but on a related note, what do the sports cats do?

Do they give you more power by virtue of the fact they are less restrictive or do they just sound better?

[Nano2nd]

V8KSN said:

Do they give you more power by virtue of the fact they are less restrictive or do they just sound better?

both

[MadMark911]

I've been told that they actually sound worse unless coupled with a Sports Exhaust / PSE or Manifolds (but I've got the PSE and the X51 manifolds are going on, hence the question whilst everything is off and the car is with Ken at Nine Excellence).

The end result should be a deeper but much more strident wail and depending on who you believe, anywhere from 20-45bhp (plus a similar torque increase) when combined with with a freer flowing BMC air filter and the IPD pleneum I've got .... We'll see!

Edited by MadMark911 on Friday 27th April 16:51

[Ian_UK1]

MadMark911 said:

I've been told that they actually sound worse unless coupled with a Sports Exhaust / PSE or Manifolds (but I've got the PSE and the X51 manifolds are going on, hence the question whilst everything is off and the car is with Ken at Nine Excellence).

The end result should be a deeper but much more strident wail and depending on who you believe, anywhere from 20-45bhp (plus a similar torque increase) when combined with with a freer flowing BMC air filter and the IPD pleneum I've got .... We'll see!

Edited by MadMark911 on Friday 27th April 16:51

If you're thinking of using 200-cell cats with a PSE - 1 word, DON'T! They sound almost as bad as they do with the standard 997S.1 cans - lots of nasty out-of-control resonance and deeply unpleasant.

I spent a lot of time experimenting with different exhaust combinations on my old 997S.1. There were two things became apparent:

1) The biggest gains were from 200-cell cats. There are very noticeable increases in mid to upper range torque/power
2) Anything (silencer-wise) designed to work with the factory cats sounded god-awful when paired with 200-cell cats.

The simple truth is that the factory cats do as much silencing as the factory silencers. Remove that silencing and it's a different ball game.

If you want to utilise the factory cats then PSE sounds awesome but gives no power gains and is very heavy. Throw-out the heavy PSE and put on a pair of Tubi silencers and you have one of the best sounding exhausts possible for 997S.1. X-51 or 3-into-1 manifolds added to this combination give a tiny bit extra and a slightly more 'tuned' sound but the gains are minimal as the main restriction is the standard cats.

If you want to use 200-cell cats, then you must buy silencers designed to work with the cats. In fact I'd go as far as to recommend buying a full system from one manufaturer. The full systems available (well the good ones at least) will have all the different components optimised to work together. Best systems by far are the a) Cargraphic (including different sound levels to taste. b) Europipe - the quality of these has to be seen to be believed (and their power claims are notoriously conservative). c) AWE. I had a full AWE system on my car that sounded sensational and gave a real 23 BHP increase in power. With the AWE system, you need to use the matching manifolds/cats as the manifold outlet pipe and catalyser inlet pipe are both larger than standard.

Lastly I would strongly advise against 'mix and match'. Exhaust components for the 997S.1 are insanely expensive (for what they are) and you will just end-up spending a fortune on bits that never sound quite right together or never perform quite the way they should. (Ask me how I know)! Go for one of the systems mentioned above and you will have a more powerful, more responsive car that sounds feckin' fantastic (and leaves PSE-equipped cars sounding insignificant and lame ).

Ian

Edit 1. Final recommendation. Put a BMC-F1 filter in the standard airbox on the 997S.1 You won't believe how it wakes the car up. It'll give you improved throttle response that's way above what you'd expect for a cheap, simply-installed part.

Edit 2. Don't care what anyone says, the IPD plenums lose power on the M97 3.8. End of. Been there, bought one, made the car slower. I turned it into a plenum-shaped paperweight.

Edit 3. +40BHP with bolt-ons? LMAO! Not in a million years. +25 max, if you're lucky and the wind is in the right direction

Edited by Ian_UK1 on Friday 27th April 17:22

[MadMark911]

Ian_UK1 said:

If you're thinking of using 200-cell cats with a PSE - 1 word, DON'T! They sound almost as bad as they do with the standard 997S.1 cans - lots of nasty out-of-control resonance and deeply unpleasant.

I spent a lot of time experimenting with different exhaust combinations on my old 997S.1. There were two things became apparent:

1) The biggest gains were from 200-cell cats. There are very noticeable increases in mid to upper range torque/power
2) Anything (silencer-wise) designed to work with the factory cats sounded god-awful when paired with 200-cell cats.

The simple truth is that the factory cats do as much silencing as the factory silencers. Remove that silencing and it's a different ball game.

If you want to utilise the factory cats then PSE sounds awesome but gives no power gains and is very heavy. Throw-out the heavy PSE and put on a pair of Tubi silencers and you have one of the best sounding exhausts possible for 997S.1. X-51 or 3-into-1 manifolds added to this combination give a tiny bit extra and a slightly more 'tuned' sound but the gains are minimal as the main restriction is the standard cats.

If you want to use 200-cell cats, then you must buy silencers designed to work with the cats. In fact I'd go as far as to recommend buying a full system from one manufaturer. The full systems available (well the good ones at least) will have all the different components optimised to work together. Best systems by far are the a) Cargraphic (including different sound levels to taste. b) Europipe - the quality of these has to be seen to be believed (and their power claims are notoriously conservative). c) AWE. I had a full AWE system on my car that sounded sensational and gave a real 23 BHP increase in power. With the AWE system, you need to use the matching manifolds/cats as the manifold outlet pipe and catalyser inlet pipe are both larger than standard.

Lastly I would strongly advise against 'mix and match'. Exhaust components for the 997S.1 are insanely expensive (for what they are) and you will just end-up spending a fortune on bits that never sound quite right together or never perform quite the way they should. (Ask me how I know)! Go for one of the systems mentioned above and you will have a more powerful, more responsive car that sounds feckin' fantastic (and leaves PSE-equipped cars sounding insignificant and lame ).

Ian

Edit 1. Final recommendation. Put a BMC-F1 filter in the standard airbox on the 997S.1 You won't believe how it wakes the car up. It'll give you improved throttle response that's way above what you'd expect for a cheap, simply-installed part.

Edit 2. Don't care what anyone says, the IPD plenums lose power on the M97 3.8. End of. Been there, bought one, made the car slower. I turned it into a plenum-shaped paperweight.

Edit 3. +40BHP with bolt-ons? LMAO! Not in a million years. +25 max, if you're lucky and the wind is in the right direction

Edited by Ian_UK1 on Friday 27th April 17:22

Ian_UK1 - got your points on the Sports Cats (now concerned over the noise), but how did you know the IPD made the car slower? Was this feel or timing?

MM.

[Ian_UK1]

MadMark911 said:

Ian_UK1 - got your points on the Sports Cats (now concerned over the noise), but how did you know the IPD made the car slower? Was this feel or timing?

MM.

PM'd you.

[Richie200]

Ian_UK1 said:

PM'd you.

Hi Ian, can you please also PM me with your findings; I'm considering buying one and feel your experience might be useful.

[Ian_UK1]

Richie200 said:

Hi Ian, can you please also PM me with your findings; I'm considering buying one and feel your experience might be useful.

You have PM.

[Terry Winks]

I am going to do some almighty thread resurrection here! Interesting to read this post when searching for different sports cat options. Now were 12 years down the line. I have said it on other threads here, but I have standard headers, Top Gear 200 Cel Cats with a cross over pipe and not an X and their valved silencers.

Valves Shut: Much better than stock which was pretty tame to be honest, but could still do with being another 10-15% more.
Valves Open: Absolutely terrible, overly loud but no real tone, sounds broken at slow speeds and overly barky and raspy at full chat.

Now I know the Top Gear stuff is relaitvely cheap compared to other systems so maybe this is reflected in the performance, but I took a standpoint that if you spent £5k on a system and didn't like it, it was better to have that problem at £1700 first.

So into the winter I want to look at other options, going to put a GT3 rear bumper on mine anyway, so need to move to a center exit