Discussion
isaldiri said:
Digga said:
ittle touches on the 4.0, like the entire front wings being made from carbon fibre by a small firm in the UK who usually build transatlantic racing yachts. There’s a lot of little things like that.
You've heard what I think of cf body panels right.....? Cf monocoque - great. Panels not so good as they er break. Splitters are just idiotic....That aside, although the arc of 997 GT3 & RS cars, from the 7.1 to the 4.0 all share the same parts manual, there's some fairly meaty differences on both the 3.8 and 4.0 7.2 RS cars:
- ball-jointed rear suspension
- variocam no only on inlet, but also exhaust valves
- wider track front & rear
- dual intake airbox
Black and white one has FSH but only paperwork from 1 in 2020, i.e. no ability to really go through and understand much. Major service apparently in 2022 but again, not much to see.
Going to spend some time with the red and white one next week which is effectively 1 owner and will have RPM prep prior to sale. Feels chunky money for +20,000 miles but hard to guage market with only 2 cars out there.
Going to spend some time with the red and white one next week which is effectively 1 owner and will have RPM prep prior to sale. Feels chunky money for +20,000 miles but hard to guage market with only 2 cars out there.
https://collectingcars.com/buy?query=GT3%20RS&...
Collecting Cars auction results, difficult to pin down any up to date numbers.
Collecting Cars auction results, difficult to pin down any up to date numbers.
I drove all four of the 997.2RS cars ... 3.6, 3.8, 4.0 and 2RS ... the step up from the 3.6 to the 3.8 was noticeable, the step up to the 4.0 was more ... and the 2RS was just amazing, so easy to steer on the throttle.
All great cars in their own way ... but the .2 did bring in a lot of valuable changes, a shame about the centre-locks IMHO !
All great cars in their own way ... but the .2 did bring in a lot of valuable changes, a shame about the centre-locks IMHO !
Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 5th July 22:03
Digga said:
Cool though 'because race car'.
That aside, although the arc of 997 GT3 & RS cars, from the 7.1 to the 4.0 all share the same parts manual, there's some fairly meaty differences on both the 3.8 and 4.0 7.2 RS cars:
The 4.0 does not have a wider track vs the 3.8rs. I’m rather certain about that.That aside, although the arc of 997 GT3 & RS cars, from the 7.1 to the 4.0 all share the same parts manual, there's some fairly meaty differences on both the 3.8 and 4.0 7.2 RS cars:
- ball-jointed rear suspension
- variocam no only on inlet, but also exhaust valves
- wider track front & rear
- dual intake airbox
The partially rose jointed rear suspension and linear springs are easily retrofittable and I’d encourage most 7.2 gt3s of any stripe to try those changes as they, to a very large degree, are responsible for the supposed ‘better handling’ of the 4.0.
The major difference is the engine as you say which would be a bit of a job to get a 3.8 to 4.0 capacity. Look the engine is pretty nice of course but the 3.8 is absolutely no slouch either. Again as I said the improvement in what the engine delivers is not the major factor in the 4.0 being that much more expensive and it is the numbered plate that is the main reason. And also similarly to other cars, the supposed factor that the 4.0 has over others seems to increase as a function of its pricing. Funny that….
Here’s my engines dyno sheet from when Manthey sent it to get mapped-google translate below…
Look at the torque figure! Now I understand some saying the big engines change what they love about the mezger but it still revs and wails like a banshee.
And this is an engine still limited by the 996’s intake set up.
An official Porsche fully homolgated 4.0 must be an utterly wonderful thing to grab by the scruff of the neck in a little 997.
I can accept that a whole lot of value in the 4.0 is in the limited edition status but even if they’d made thousands and thousands of them it’d still command a premium.
I’d love one-Chris Harris’ old one is semi local to me (well, we use the same OPC) and I do believe it’s driven and used regularly. To heck with putting it on a pedestal or locking it away in a bubble.
isaldiri said:
Digga said:
Cool though 'because race car'.
That aside, although the arc of 997 GT3 & RS cars, from the 7.1 to the 4.0 all share the same parts manual, there's some fairly meaty differences on both the 3.8 and 4.0 7.2 RS cars:
The 4.0 does not have a wider track vs the 3.8rs. I’m rather certain about that.That aside, although the arc of 997 GT3 & RS cars, from the 7.1 to the 4.0 all share the same parts manual, there's some fairly meaty differences on both the 3.8 and 4.0 7.2 RS cars:
- ball-jointed rear suspension
- variocam no only on inlet, but also exhaust valves
- wider track front & rear
- dual intake airbox
The partially rose jointed rear suspension and linear springs are easily retrofittable and I’d encourage most 7.2 gt3s of any stripe to try those changes as they, to a very large degree, are responsible for the supposed ‘better handling’ of the 4.0.
The major difference is the engine as you say which would be a bit of a job to get a 3.8 to 4.0 capacity. Look the engine is pretty nice of course but the 3.8 is absolutely no slouch either. Again as I said the improvement in what the engine delivers is not the major factor in the 4.0 being that much more expensive and it is the numbered plate that is the main reason. And also similarly to other cars, the supposed factor that the 4.0 has over others seems to increase as a function of its pricing. Funny that….
PRO5T said:
Here’s my engines dyno sheet from when Manthey sent it to get mapped-google translate below…
Look at the torque figure! Now I understand some saying the big engines change what they love about the mezger but it still revs and wails like a banshee.
And this is an engine still limited by the 996’s intake set up.
An official Porsche fully homolgated 4.0 must be an utterly wonderful thing to grab by the scruff of the neck in a little 997.
I can accept that a whole lot of value in the 4.0 is in the limited edition status but even if they’d made thousands and thousands of them it’d still command a premium.
I’d love one-Chris Harris’ old one is semi local to me (well, we use the same OPC) and I do believe it’s driven and used regularly. To heck with putting it on a pedestal or locking it away in a bubble.
Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.PRO5T said:
993rsr said:
Ansgar Wiesen is the man Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.
Nice! More info needed! Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.Then went to a 4.1 motor which ended up (not well) with Slippydiff who put a 997 Cup motor in it, now SRance is the custodian.
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:33
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:39
993rsr said:
PRO5T said:
993rsr said:
Ansgar Wiesen is the man Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.
Nice! More info needed! Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.Then went to a 4.1 motor which ended up (not well) with Slippydiff who put a 997 Cup motor in it, now SRance is the custodian.
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:33
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:39
Very similar spec to mine although when Manthey rebuilt the gearbox I'm pretty certain they stuck with the standard gear ratios-cup car diff and final drive though.
Bloody love this engine.
PRO5T said:
....
An official Porsche fully homolgated 4.0 must be an utterly wonderful thing to grab by the scruff of the neck in a little 997.
I can accept that a whole lot of value in the 4.0 is in the limited edition status but even if they’d made thousands and thousands of them it’d still command a premium.
Well..... it is a nice car for sure. I simply disagree that it's extra 'specialness' is in any way fairly or reasonably reflected by current pricing over the 3.8rs and the original difference between list prices was a much fairer reflection of how much better the 4.0 actually is. And if 'thousands and thousands' of the 4.0 were made and it never carries the cachet of a numbered car, the 3.8rs would be the one with a larger premium as it would have far less production numbers.An official Porsche fully homolgated 4.0 must be an utterly wonderful thing to grab by the scruff of the neck in a little 997.
I can accept that a whole lot of value in the 4.0 is in the limited edition status but even if they’d made thousands and thousands of them it’d still command a premium.
The JZM white/black car is one I owned before.
It was factory delivered in that colour scheme via some exclusive options. Notice it has a white cage which none of the standard trims which Nurburgsingh listed came with.
It is a high spec car - PCCBs, dynamic lights, cgt seats, lift, etc. Doesn’t have stitched/alcantara dash but does have some white trim (inc vents and centre tunnel) that set off well against the other white bits.
I believe it is the only factory white/black car. There was another in the UK but that was a post delivery job with a typical black or red cage - likely reverted to its original scheme now.
I really liked the JZM car in how it drove. I had a grey/red one after it - lower mileage, folding buckets, etc - but that just didn’t drive as nicely as the white one.
The JZM car was a good car whilst I had it - clean no stories, warranty etc. I didn’t understand the OPs point about limited history.
I find it tempting to buy again…but alas, other priorities. Plus each time I look at these I get lost in a rabbit hole of comparing 997.2 991.1 991.2 GT3s and RSs all at similar ish prices with different track performance levels!
It was factory delivered in that colour scheme via some exclusive options. Notice it has a white cage which none of the standard trims which Nurburgsingh listed came with.
It is a high spec car - PCCBs, dynamic lights, cgt seats, lift, etc. Doesn’t have stitched/alcantara dash but does have some white trim (inc vents and centre tunnel) that set off well against the other white bits.
I believe it is the only factory white/black car. There was another in the UK but that was a post delivery job with a typical black or red cage - likely reverted to its original scheme now.
I really liked the JZM car in how it drove. I had a grey/red one after it - lower mileage, folding buckets, etc - but that just didn’t drive as nicely as the white one.
The JZM car was a good car whilst I had it - clean no stories, warranty etc. I didn’t understand the OPs point about limited history.
I find it tempting to buy again…but alas, other priorities. Plus each time I look at these I get lost in a rabbit hole of comparing 997.2 991.1 991.2 GT3s and RSs all at similar ish prices with different track performance levels!
Edited by LaSource on Saturday 6th July 07:48
LaSource said:
The JZM white/black car is one I owned before.
It was factory delivered in that colour scheme via some exclusive options. Notice it has a white cage which none of the standard trims which Nurburgsingh listed came with.
It is a high spec car - PCCBs, dynamic lights, cgt seats, lift, etc. Doesn’t have stitched/alcantara dash but does have some white trim (inc vents and centre tunnel) that set off well against the other white bits.
I believe it is the only factory white/black car. There was another in the UK but that was a post delivery job with a typical black or red cage - likely reverted to its original scheme now.
I really liked the JZM car in how it drove. I had a grey/red one after it - lower mileage, folding buckets, etc - but that just didn’t drive as nicely as the white one.
The JZM car was a good car whilst I had it - clean no stories, warranty etc. I didn’t understand the OPs point about limited history.
I find it tempting to buy again…but alas, other priorities. Plus each time I look at these I get lost in a rabbit hole of comparing 997.2 991.1 991.2 GT3s and RSs all at similar ish prices with different track performance levels!
I did know it was yours before but I didn’t want to ‘out’ you on here. It was factory delivered in that colour scheme via some exclusive options. Notice it has a white cage which none of the standard trims which Nurburgsingh listed came with.
It is a high spec car - PCCBs, dynamic lights, cgt seats, lift, etc. Doesn’t have stitched/alcantara dash but does have some white trim (inc vents and centre tunnel) that set off well against the other white bits.
I believe it is the only factory white/black car. There was another in the UK but that was a post delivery job with a typical black or red cage - likely reverted to its original scheme now.
I really liked the JZM car in how it drove. I had a grey/red one after it - lower mileage, folding buckets, etc - but that just didn’t drive as nicely as the white one.
The JZM car was a good car whilst I had it - clean no stories, warranty etc. I didn’t understand the OPs point about limited history.
I find it tempting to buy again…but alas, other priorities. Plus each time I look at these I get lost in a rabbit hole of comparing 997.2 991.1 991.2 GT3s and RSs all at similar ish prices with different track performance levels!
Edited by LaSource on Saturday 6th July 07:48
It’s interesting what you say about the difference between the two, and then also what Yellow 491 always says about his 3.8 disappointing slightly.
I bet a 3.8 on a decent set of KW’s or Ohlins might be the answer I am looking for.
993rsr said:
PRO5T said:
993rsr said:
Ansgar Wiesen is the man Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.
Nice! More info needed! Did the mapping on my K440 conversion that Manthey built.Then went to a 4.1 motor which ended up (not well) with Slippydiff who put a 997 Cup motor in it, now SRance is the custodian.
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:33
Edited by 993rsr on Friday 5th July 18:39
Digga i think that is a good starter for 10,i never modified mine at all bar geo,they still look good.
Yellow491 said:
That bean can was one of the best cars i have ever just jumped into and drove when we were on that lemans track day,steering and feel was wicked,where has it all gone wrong!
Like I said earlier in thread, there’s just something so pure and ‘right’ about the 996 GT3.How about the 992 GT3 though? You enjoying it so far aren’t you?
Yellow491 said:
Digga i think that is a good starter for 10,i never modified mine at all bar geo,they still look good.
Isaldri has put better shocks on his 4.0 and reckons there’s a definite improvement.Hi LaSource, thanks for posting!
Would be great to know when you had the car and for how long and if you know any of the other owner's. Feel free to message me if easier.
My point re the service records is that there is no paperwork accompanying the stamps so I can’t see what was done/replaced in addition to the normal service to build that view of history. I had a manual 430 a while back which was similar but had comfort through buying via a Ferrari dealer with 2 year warranty. I then spent some time calling around to get copies of its history sent to me.
Would be great to know when you had the car and for how long and if you know any of the other owner's. Feel free to message me if easier.
My point re the service records is that there is no paperwork accompanying the stamps so I can’t see what was done/replaced in addition to the normal service to build that view of history. I had a manual 430 a while back which was similar but had comfort through buying via a Ferrari dealer with 2 year warranty. I then spent some time calling around to get copies of its history sent to me.
Yellow491 said:
That bean can was one of the best cars i have ever just jumped into and drove when we were on that lemans track day,steering and feel was wicked,where has it all gone wrong!
Digga i think that is a good starter for 10,i never modified mine at all bar geo,they still look good.
Digga i think that is a good starter for 10,i never modified mine at all bar geo,they still look good.
If anyone sees me at a track and wants a go, pop over and say hello-everyone should experience it once
As above, Manthey 3.9 engine, JRZ remote dampers, Geo to PARR Nürburgring set up, Cup final drive, Cup diff, 4.0 clutch and Cup lightweight flywheel, Cup gearshift cables, Cup aero (body and underneath), solid engine and gearbox mounts, performance friction steel brake conversion, the list goes on…
It’s currently stripped out with full cage (factory Clubsport originally) but I’m half in the mind to put the carpets back in this winter when it’s off the road and do an interior restoration-get rid of the tinted rear windows etc.
It’ll still be light, all the airbags, stereo and speakers are removed and it’s just running a carbon Cup footwell board.
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