991.2 GTS Turbo Failure Issue
Discussion
bosshog said:
My 991.2 S had both turbos replaced at 11k and 20k.
I wouldn’t own this gen without a warranty - it’s not expensive anyhow and for me is a no brainier on the modern cars.
As above there are updated design to try and stop it - I’ve only heard of a couple of 992 go this far so it seems to be less prone but high corrosion will effect eventually I suppose
Wow! Twice - did they mention anything after the first time about any changes or not to stop it happening at all or is it just with 992 that's properly been improved? But yes corrosions seems common on all due to the placement.I wouldn’t own this gen without a warranty - it’s not expensive anyhow and for me is a no brainier on the modern cars.
As above there are updated design to try and stop it - I’ve only heard of a couple of 992 go this far so it seems to be less prone but high corrosion will effect eventually I suppose
I am definitely learning always have a warranty. I purchased from an independent Porsche specialist this time around, never again if I even stick with the brand
Grantstown said:
I would agree that the warranty is a good idea, unless you're in the situation where you wish to make the car much better than it was at the time of delivery, in which case they'll no longer be happy to issue a warranty.
I've found the parts for the new pressure lines. Nice and cheap, but OPC suggests engine out! I suspect this is because of steel meeting aluminium and causing them to seize. I'll see what Ninemeister's opinion is on Monday. Generally they have solutions that are impossible to OPCs, who always replace everything in the most expensive way possible. And why not I guess if you get paid to do it by the warranty underwriters.
I spoke with Ninemeister myself, as they are very local to me alongside Weissach. Ninemeister they are definitely good for thinking outside the box, when you aren't worried about getting so much to Porsche standards or official parts. I was trying to stay to Porsche standards if the warranty was to be renewed by a future customer or myself. The seizing is an issue and hence why my engine is being taken out, depends on the situation of the car individually I guess. My turbos were sent off for refurb but were too rusty and damaged inside which Ninemeister initially suggested. I've found the parts for the new pressure lines. Nice and cheap, but OPC suggests engine out! I suspect this is because of steel meeting aluminium and causing them to seize. I'll see what Ninemeister's opinion is on Monday. Generally they have solutions that are impossible to OPCs, who always replace everything in the most expensive way possible. And why not I guess if you get paid to do it by the warranty underwriters.
But yes its a lazy way of not actually fixing a problem just send off to the insurance putting prices up for all in the long term
Grantstown said:
I’ve come across this as a potential easy device to decrease the risk of the issue oil building up in the turbos.
https://www.vektorperformance.com/shop/vektor-perf...
Saw this and the Litchfield version, I was thinking of adding it in but the specialist told me this was to do with another oil issue on the car not related to what happened to mine but anything to prevent is good I guess. https://www.vektorperformance.com/shop/vektor-perf...
My only concern would be how often it would need to be emptied or keeping an eye on it..
Grantstown said:
When I enquired at Litchfield motors, the quoted cost was 9293 to have my turbos swapped out and to be refitted with GTS turbos and then to be retuned again. They said that this could go up a little if it needed new oil lines, which I think are a must, or if the bolts holding the turbos to the manifolds had seized. The power gain would have modest over my current 506bhp, so I left it for now as it’s plenty really. They do the turbos on an exchange basis. Turbos they remove are stripped and rebuilt with parts that are of a much higher standard of production.
I’m at 34K, so my clutch may go soon as mine is a manual. My next drivetrain upgrade would then be to get a lightweight flywheel when the clutch is replaced.
I think the oil lines improve things as you say. I say mine were done several years ago by Porsche and I still have the issue. £9293 sounds about right including the labour etc. Mine is also a manual and at 57k and my clutch is still original.. Are these known to fail quite early as well do you know?I’m at 34K, so my clutch may go soon as mine is a manual. My next drivetrain upgrade would then be to get a lightweight flywheel when the clutch is replaced.
c3m said:
I'm wondering if I'm the only one surprised by how common the issue seems to be, pointing to a design flaw.
I wouldn't expect relatively new, expensive cars to be having such serious issues - surely the answer should be "Porsche should fix the design flaw/recall" rather than "Don't run a 991.2+ turbo car without a warranty because turbos will almost certainly go pop"?
I absolutely agree with you. I mean they still sell these within their Approved Used so they are clearly a modern model even to them. I don't hear of many other cars having such massive inherent problems and people just say you need a warranty even ones which are way cheaper. Had I known I would have never touched it to be honest. Had a cayman from new for 4 years with 0 issues, expected the same thing with a 911. I mean 50k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing - never mind one that costs this much As another poster said if the manufacturer was British you would hear about it and they would sort it out with customers I'm sure. I steered away from AML thinking Porsche would be more reliable & stand by their productI wouldn't expect relatively new, expensive cars to be having such serious issues - surely the answer should be "Porsche should fix the design flaw/recall" rather than "Don't run a 991.2+ turbo car without a warranty because turbos will almost certainly go pop"?
Cheib said:
Recall’s mean you have to admit something serious is wrong with a car and also have to be informed to shareholders if significant. Neither of which Porsche will be keen to do….never mind the logistics of all 991.2’s needing workshop time which as we know is a nightmare at most OPC’s.
I can absolutely see why they don't want to do it but even with a warranty I would find it very difficult to have in the back of my mind especially on a nice European trip or long distance that the turbos might go, sort of ruins the fun. Even retaining loyalty to Porsche and getting a newer car say to fix the problem for example a 992 but according to Ninemeister and others online they have the same issues such not as prevalent yet. What seems strange though is the 911 'Turbo' and 'Turbo S' don't seem to have as many issues - I know different engine but still..
Has anyone considered moving away from Porsche? I'm contemplating a Lexus LC500.. I looked at it before this 991.2 GTS and wish I had gone ahead. I know many people who have dealt with Toyota / Lexus even at 100k miles with certain issues and they have sorted it out no questions asked. Even the GR Yaris has a 10 year no quibbles warranty for a fraction of the price of a 911. If Porsche believe they offer the same engineering, It make me wonder - why don't they offer it?
c3m said:
Yeah, exactly, imagine paying £100k for a 911 and being stranded on the road when the car is 2–3-4yrs old. Absolutely ridiculous.
It is insane, I cannot believe it's not a recall but I guess time with show as with the 997 Bore scoring and it will become more widely known about. You might see my later posts regarding Toyota / Lexus. I know many people who have had issues with these at 100k and they just sort it out. For way less of a purchase price than any Porsche most of the time - have the customer and loyalty to the brand at heart. I feel very shortchanged, wish I had gotten another Cayman originally and not scratched the 911 itch! Only reason I changed originally was because my 718 was written off by a drunk driver!
Grantstown said:
The Lexus isn’t comparable as a drivers car, but no doubt a lovely place to sit.
Definitely not in the driving sense but still really good for an everyday road car & with that V8 noise. The interior is impeccable that's for sure and a rare sight which is a big plus in my opinion Grantstown said:
Ninemeister felt the catch can was a really good idea, but Litchfield don’t sell me one, as they’re concerned that it will be copied. Pretty laughable really, but I’ll find something similar. A proper clean under the car and treatment with lanoguard should help keep things in as good an order as possible.
That's interesting, I was actually thinking of doing the same and getting Weissach to put it in as they said they would after discussing on the phone. I will phone Litchfield tomorrow myself re this issue and see if they have any other ideas as I haven't had time thus far. There is another available from the US, linked earlier in this forum as well. Strange they won't sell it direct though even though its on their website and could be removed anyway.. The lanoguard is an option for sure, If I decide to keep it, maybe I'll have to invest in a car stacker or scissor lift to check it out underneath every few weeks
They are great cars and I love driving it, like the more classic look, drive and pre OPF, plus the more analogue feel compared to the 992 but honestly if Porsche could come up with a permanent solution or recall for this it would be perfect and would honestly keep for many, many years.
Grantstown said:
I think you should embrace improvement and get the car sorted out. Weissach is quite new. They’re probably great, but personally I’d have my car trailered to Litchfield for this job if I was you.
Porsche won’t come up with a solution for this I suspect, but the independent sector will.
I spoke with Litchfield this week. They dont' have a proper fix for it at all, they are making a manifold but nothing turbo related at all. I wish they would do though it would give so much peace of mind. Porsche won’t come up with a solution for this I suspect, but the independent sector will.
They said reasons that cause it:
Seal Gap on the turbo failing
Exposed turbos being near to the ground
OIl return line clogging up
Back pressure from the exhaust.
But I think in a majority of cases it's the oil return lines. They have a oil catch can which can help but doesn't fully resolve it
I've finally got my car back after 3 months this weekend. Drives much better than I previously remember! Does anybody know what is involved in a 111 point check and getting a warranty put back onto it & the costs involved?
Also if anyone is interested the link below sends you to the Service Bulletin & repair method by Porsche OPC's for this issue:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0f0OdUrzJtN2iTt...
Also if anyone is interested the link below sends you to the Service Bulletin & repair method by Porsche OPC's for this issue:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0f0OdUrzJtN2iTt...
Old Trout said:
Ugh - I am glad I discovered this thread. I had narrowed down my 911 buying choice to a 991.2 GTS.
Back to the drawing board.
They are absolutely awesome cars but you just need the Porsche OPC warranty. For an update to the Forum I started. I got the car back after 2-3 months, had an issue with a gearbox connection so it was trailered again and then a month ago a coil pack failed. It sat on my drive for 3 weeks & It's been back at the garage for 2 weeks for all new 6x coils & sparks so I've been without another month or more! The coils have corroded inside and a new screw insert has had to be done but there is still issues regarding misfiring. Hoping to collect this week. Not sure if this is mileage related or what but I'm pretty sure my GTS must be one of the highest mileages in the country as I and previous owners have basically driven daily.Back to the drawing board.
I think I will possibly be selling mine when I get it repaired and once I'm sure it's working properly after a fair few miles. It's a GT Silver Metallic with the very rare manual box. I've spent around £16k since February having purchase the car for £72k last May from a little known dealership in Bishops Stortford.. Not sure if anyone else has dealt with them specialists in Porsche? Its sad as I planned having bought high mileage to use the car for everything including trips down to Portugal and all the countries along the way.
As I said on my previous posts I'm shocked with the complications and build quality of Porsche as I previously loved them (one having saved my life) but going by mine at 50k miles - I feel like the best way to go with them is to buy one from a Porsche OPC (which is under 1-2 years old if you plan to keep for a couple of years) or with warranty - I wouldn't sway away from the 991.2 GTS as I dont' believe its any worse than any 992 generation. Had I known I would have had to spend massively on maintenance I would have just gone for the 997 GT3!
Grantstown said:
Glad you've got the car back on the road. You can put it behind you now and enjoy it. I've got hold of the Vektor performance oil/air separator catch can and I'm going to have it fitted this week along with the annual maintenance list planned. It should make the oil line less likely to clog up and my exhaust definitely has much less back pressure than the OEM set up. Any 911 with turbos can have issues with seals and being exposed, so always potentially vulnerable. I'm having a full clean up and lanoguard as well, so that should help with the protection issue.
As per my previous comment I've had massive issues with coil packs failing and now they are apparently corroded so they need a thread repair. One had failed after driving through heavy rain but clearly they were bad before. So I would watch out of for these issues as well with yours or speak to Weissach as I'm sure they have gained a lot of expertise after dealing with mine. How is the Vekor catch can with your car? Out of interest after my car being at Weissach they are able to offer a comprehensive warranty the same as Porsche OPC's but clearly you need to be in Cheshire or local to the county.What guys are you using for your lanoguard? I'm thinking that might be a good option for me and also if I've done it for future owners of the car.
Sukh13 said:
All ok if you pay for the warranty though...
Looks like 997.2 and 991.1 are the sweet spot for reliability.
I would agree 997.2 or .1 as you expect it with the age in a way or the 991.1 without the turbos would mitigate my issue! I avoided them because I presumed newer would be better but I'm learning a lot with Porsche having got into the 911 world after having had a 718 from pretty much new!Looks like 997.2 and 991.1 are the sweet spot for reliability.
Sukh13 said:
All for the low price of £1k per year and having to keep servicing the car at OPC prices (for all practical purposes)....
Having known I would have done this from the offset - I just assumed Porsche reliability and build quality meant there was some leeway. Honestly owning a 911 or other 1k is a small price compared to the £16k I've had to spend on this 991.2 GTS. Sukh13 said:
Is there a proven method to solve the turbo issues? The oil catch cans from Litchfield appear to be half the solution, but the turbos etc still sit exposed to the elements?
They are not a proper solution to be honest. That has to come from Porsche and for some reason they don't want to recall even though to be honest they are still pretty low numbers generally (their biggest market is the SUV's, Tacans and Panamera's).. The turbos are so so exposed (see attached picture) Old Trout said:
I would go for a GT4 or otherwise a daily - I think they would be more reliable or even your current Cayman R!! Or just get a new 992 base spec as to be honest think on the road as a daily these are as good as my GTS and I would have been happy with one so I'm sure others and online on YouTube such as Seen through glass feel the same as a tourer which is what the 911 (unless a GT3) basically is..
Edited by rjh_36093 on Thursday 20th June 00:42
PetrolTed said:
I’ve had rusty coil packs too.
My smoke issue seems to have returned too. Not sure how that can happen.
Dealer won’t do anything until I can video “plumes” of smoke. Puffs are not enough.
Interesting you've had the rusty coil pack as well. I'm surprised they also had failed. What mileage were you on with the coil pack replacement? I decided to go with a major service with the sparks as well (made sense) even though not due for another year for the benefit of me and the possible future owner (test drove a Giulia QV today and was quite impressed).. My smoke issue seems to have returned too. Not sure how that can happen.
Dealer won’t do anything until I can video “plumes” of smoke. Puffs are not enough.
Fair play to the specialist I took it to, they had mentioned for me to change them during the first visit but having had the shock of the cost of the turbo repair I turned it down. Had it back a week and all seems good, driven a few hundred miles and been driving daily for everything.
How long ago has it been since your original turbo replacement or are you on the originals with the altered oil lines?
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