The 997 Appreciation Thread

[PGNSagaris]

First time driving a 997 Cup car. Proper thing

[bobthemonkey]

The air con on my 997.2 has disgraced itself again today.

It did something similar a year ago, and before it got put away for winter my local OPC replaced both condensers.

She of being unlucky puncturing another condenser, is there anything else I should be looking at before booking it in.

[FMOB]

Joscal said:

KittyLitter said:

This one is relisted - I swear this has been for sale for 4 years or more

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/9453843

It has! I remember its being advertised when I got my C4S X51 in 2019.

An acquired taste. The X51 is superb though!

RE: The interior, CSI called and wanted their crime scene back.

[Discombobulate]

bobthemonkey said:

The air con on my 997.2 has disgraced itself again today.

It did something similar a year ago, and before it got put away for winter my local OPC replaced both condensers.

She of being unlucky puncturing another condenser, is there anything else I should be looking at before booking it in.

One reason why mine now has front grills. Was it filled with fluorescent dye at the last fill?
If so a black / UV light will help you track the leak. Front condensers first place I would look (oily stain often evident too), then the area around the fill and expansion valves above the frunk, then the joint in the pipes under the driver's door. If no joy with any of these, it could be anywhere...
Good luck.

[Filibuster]

braddo said:

maz8062 said:

Question for the TIP owners out there: are there any tips and tricks on how to drive the thing? After my initial warm feelings towards the C2S Cab Tip, I’m feeling somewhat underwhelmed by the experience of this car compared to my base coupe manual and dare I say it, my dearly departed SLK 55 AMG.

I'd suggest it's simply a case of selecting gears manually, particularly to ensure the car sets off in 1st gear. If you leave it in D it's always going to feel sluggish and I think they set off in 2nd gear unless you really boot it.

Select gears like a manual (1st to start, mostly 2nd around town) and it will feel better, especially once the torque converter locks at around 3-4k rpm after which the throttle and the rear wheels are properly connected.

(ex-AMG and Cayenne owner in London)

What he said. Also there are several conversions for proper shift paddles that can be added to the steering wheel, or even a swap for a Macan sports wheel with paddles.

[Ed.Neumann]

Filibuster said:

braddo said:

maz8062 said:

Question for the TIP owners out there: are there any tips and tricks on how to drive the thing? After my initial warm feelings towards the C2S Cab Tip, I’m feeling somewhat underwhelmed by the experience of this car compared to my base coupe manual and dare I say it, my dearly departed SLK 55 AMG.

I'd suggest it's simply a case of selecting gears manually, particularly to ensure the car sets off in 1st gear. If you leave it in D it's always going to feel sluggish and I think they set off in 2nd gear unless you really boot it.

Select gears like a manual (1st to start, mostly 2nd around town) and it will feel better, especially once the torque converter locks at around 3-4k rpm after which the throttle and the rear wheels are properly connected.

(ex-AMG and Cayenne owner in London)

What he said. Also there are several conversions for proper shift paddles that can be added to the steering wheel, or even a swap for a Macan sports wheel with paddles.

You can also flash the gearbox with new software which increases the speed at which the gears shift, very noticeable, and also locks up the torque converter far quicker too, which all modern autos do. When these came out it was just normal to try and keep them as smooth as possible, so slower changes and more slip on the torque converter to achieve that result, but they can be flashed to feel far more like a much more modern gearbox.

A few people do them, and I am sure someone was offering one which would allow you to chose speed of change, what revs it changes up in sport mode etc. in an app, but can't find it now. Maybe it never came out, I only looked as I was offered a 997.1 tip really cheap a couple of years back, and thought that would be the first thing I would do.

A mate flashed his with the JFA software and said it was night and day. I do wonder sometimes if half of it is resetting the adaptations? Are these not using the Merc 722.6 gearboxes? I know for a fact that new transmission fluid and resetting the adaptations can make a huge difference.


This is the JFA flash.....


https://jfautomotive.co.uk/product/auto-gearbox-tu...

[KittyLitter]

Ed.Neumann said:

You can also flash the gearbox with new software which increases the speed at which the gears shift, very noticeable, and also locks up the torque converter far quicker too, which all modern autos do. When these came out it was just normal to try and keep them as smooth as possible, so slower changes and more slip on the torque converter to achieve that result, but they can be flashed to feel far more like a much more modern gearbox.

A few people do them, and I am sure someone was offering one which would allow you to chose speed of change, what revs it changes up in sport mode etc. in an app, but can't find it now. Maybe it never came out, I only looked as I was offered a 997.1 tip really cheap a couple of years back, and thought that would be the first thing I would do.

A mate flashed his with the JFA software and said it was night and day. I do wonder sometimes if half of it is resetting the adaptations? Are these not using the Merc 722.6 gearboxes? I know for a fact that new transmission fluid and resetting the adaptations can make a huge difference.


This is the JFA flash.....


https://jfautomotive.co.uk/product/auto-gearbox-tu...

In car insurance terms, remapping is considered a car modification, even if it’s one you can’t actually see.

You need to tell your insurance provider if your car engine has been remapped. If you don’t inform them, it could invalidate your insurance policy.

Car engine remapping could mean an increase in the cost of your car insurance premium. And even though remapping is increasingly common, there are some insurance providers who won’t cover your car if it’s been remapped.

[Ed.Neumann]

Yeah, of course.

However, if they scanned for an engine tune they wouldn't find it, and I doubt if any insurer would take the gearbox ecu and see if it has been modified.

They do mention that the main engine ECU counter is not effected at all.

But I would always speak to my insurer.

[KittyLitter]

KittyLitter said:

This is a stunner 997 RUF

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16711164

Edited by KittyLitter on Tuesday 14th May 14:19

Now going up for auction. Will be interesting to see what it fetches

https://carhuna.com/auctions/vehicle/preview/g9djj...

[FMOB]

KittyLitter said:

Ed.Neumann said:

You can also flash the gearbox with new software which increases the speed at which the gears shift, very noticeable, and also locks up the torque converter far quicker too, which all modern autos do. When these came out it was just normal to try and keep them as smooth as possible, so slower changes and more slip on the torque converter to achieve that result, but they can be flashed to feel far more like a much more modern gearbox.

A few people do them, and I am sure someone was offering one which would allow you to chose speed of change, what revs it changes up in sport mode etc. in an app, but can't find it now. Maybe it never came out, I only looked as I was offered a 997.1 tip really cheap a couple of years back, and thought that would be the first thing I would do.

A mate flashed his with the JFA software and said it was night and day. I do wonder sometimes if half of it is resetting the adaptations? Are these not using the Merc 722.6 gearboxes? I know for a fact that new transmission fluid and resetting the adaptations can make a huge difference.


This is the JFA flash.....


https://jfautomotive.co.uk/product/auto-gearbox-tu...

In car insurance terms, remapping is considered a car modification, even if it’s one you can’t actually see.

You need to tell your insurance provider if your car engine has been remapped. If you don’t inform them, it could invalidate your insurance policy.

Car engine remapping could mean an increase in the cost of your car insurance premium. And even though remapping is increasingly common, there are some insurance providers who won’t cover your car if it’s been remapped.

I asked my insurer about a gearbox remap, appparently the engine and gearbox are treated as single unit so a remap to either is a modification. I know in my car the engine and gearbox are controlled as a system.

[Terry Winks]

Talking of Maps.

I have seen plenty of videos online that the mods of Performance Air Filters, Bigger Plenum and GT3 Throttle Body make no gains and are not worth the investment. But is this dependent on the map? I already have a Top Gear valved exhaust and their 200 Cel cats of which I need to get the post CAT O2 Sensors mapped out as the constant engine warning messages get tiresome.

But with a new map, could they get some benefit? I am not expecting night and day, but they seem like some mods that make it a bit more mine and get a bit more response, or power, or whatever. Things have moved on a lot since 2004.

[RemarkLima]

Terry Winks said:

Talking of Maps.

I have seen plenty of videos online that the mods of Performance Air Filters, Bigger Plenum and GT3 Throttle Body make no gains and are not worth the investment. But is this dependent on the map? I already have a Top Gear valved exhaust and their 200 Cel cats of which I need to get the post CAT O2 Sensors mapped out as the constant engine warning messages get tiresome.

But with a new map, could they get some benefit? I am not expecting night and day, but they seem like some mods that make it a bit more mine and get a bit more response, or power, or whatever. Things have moved on a lot since 2004.

I get the impression that the intake is generally limited by the heads - so without porting the intake valves (mega expensive) there's not a lot of gain to be had. The X51 kit has different heads which make the most of the intake and exhaust updates.

Even the Hartech 4.1 upgrade doesn't give a "massive" power hike, I think about 385bhp - tasty, but the most gains are all in the mid range and the "area under the graph" of general grunt, which means you're a gear higher than usual But it seems that the ceiling of power was due to the heads rather than the intake and exhaust itself.

Interestingly, with the same exhaust setup I get the occasional CEL, usually when around a steady 2000rpm - which I was thinking a remap may just sort the emissions and fueling with the freeer flowing cats.

[Discombobulate]

RemarkLima said:

I get the impression that the intake is generally limited by the heads - so without porting the intake valves (mega expensive) there's not a lot of gain to be had. The X51 kit has different heads which make the most of the intake and exhaust updates.

Even the Hartech 4.1 upgrade doesn't give a "massive" power hike, I think about 385bhp - tasty, but the most gains are all in the mid range and the "area under the graph" of general grunt, which means you're a gear higher than usual But it seems that the ceiling of power was due to the heads rather than the intake and exhaust itself.

Interestingly, with the same exhaust setup I get the occasional CEL, usually when around a steady 2000rpm - which I was thinking a remap may just sort the emissions and fueling with the freeer flowing cats.

This. I have a freshly built 4.1 with heads refurbished and new everything, plus Topgear 200 cell cats and manifold with PSE, and a custom map by Wayne Schofield and we couldn't get more than 385bhp. Masses of torque though and feels much more powerful.

[RemarkLima]

Discombobulate said:

This. I have a freshly built 4.1 with heads refurbished and new everything, plus Topgear 200 cell cats and manifold with PSE, and a custom map by Wayne Schofield and we couldn't get more than 385bhp. Masses of torque though and feels much more powerful.

It'll be the area under the power curve that's much greater, so will be significantly quicker all round! I'm trying to man maths the 4.1 but struggling

[Slippydiff]

Louis Balfour said:

KittyLitter said:

997 Sports Classic on a budget cabriolet version

If the coupe didn't do it for you, hows about this...

https://rindtvehicledesign.com/car-sales/porsche-9...

What search terms are you using to find all this st?

[Ed.Neumann]

FMOB said:

I asked my insurer about a gearbox remap, appparently the engine and gearbox are treated as single unit so a remap to either is a modification. I know in my car the engine and gearbox are controlled as a system.

Yeah they are both modifications, but one is to enhance the performance and can 'possibly' change the performance figures, while the other doesn't.

There is a separate gearbox and engine ECU on a 997.


I think for anyone with a Porsche tiptronic gearbox this is definitely worth considering.


Let's not forget that Porsche offered very similar with the Sport button option, which also sped up shift times, pulled away in 1st but also held onto the gears much longer even if under a light load, which isn't always ideal.

Even in manual mode the shifts with the sport button pressed are considerably quicker.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Tuesday 25th June 18:22

[FMOB]

Ed.Neumann said:

FMOB said:

I asked my insurer about a gearbox remap, appparently the engine and gearbox are treated as single unit so a remap to either is a modification. I know in my car the engine and gearbox are controlled as a system.

Yeah they are both modifications, but one is to enhance the performance and can 'possibly' change the performance figures, while the other doesn't.

There is a separate gearbox and engine ECU on a 997.

Well on more modern machinery there is direct linkage between engine and transmission so the two work together, I think you would have an uphill task persuading the insurance underwriters they are separate in a particular car and one has no impact on the other.

[Ed.Neumann]

Yeah I'm sure some insurers would just give a blanket no.

But not sure why we are discussing insurers to be honest? Well because Kittylitter mentioned it. Haha

I think we all know we have to inform insurers of mods.


Someone was saying that the tiptronic is underwhelming and spoiling the enjoyment of their car, I was simply pointing out that you can change the software, either via Porsche (if they still offer the sport button as a retrofit?) or from third parties who will do a custom set up where you get the much quicker shifts of the Porsche "sport" mode without it holding onto the gears too long while cruising around.



That 722.6 transmission got software updates from Mercedes on certain models like the ML back in the day, mainly because customers moaned that the gearbox seemed like it was slipping. It wasn't slipping at all, well it was, but by design, it was just programmed to allow allow a lot of torque slip, it never full locked up to give as smooth a ride as possible.
But they later changed this so it would lock up at higher, steadier speeds. I think it became more of an issue as they got older, so they changed the software a bit.
They were known for being a bit clunky going into 2nd and 3rd, hence more slip added on cars like the ML originally.





I do think that fresh fluid and resetting the adaptations, and then going for a spirited run would make a hell of a difference as these cars get to 15 years old or more.

[freedman]

FMOB said:

Well on more modern machinery there is direct linkage between engine and transmission so the two work together, I think you would have an uphill task persuading the insurance underwriters they are separate in a particular car and one has no impact on the other.

What chance do you think there is that an insurer would ever know or have need to know if your gearbox had been mapped, on a 997 tip?

And as said above, remapping your gearbox is not a performance mod, as such, the car will still produce exactly the same figures it did from the factory

[PRO5T]

Ho would the insurers know about a gearbox remap My car has a Manthey 3.9 engine conversion-you think in the event of an accident they're stripping down the engine to check if it's in factory tolerances?