The 997 Appreciation Thread
Discussion
ATM said:
RATATTAK said:
It's a shame you have only bought the rears. Will you be buying the matching fronts next month?
KittyLitter said:
Looks fantastic - you must be delighted. Big difference up close between these and the other ones you had?
Not really, big difference in price yes but really nothing noticeable in quality. (the Chinese are becoming very good at copying) It's just nice to know you've got the genuine article. (and they'll always have a value)PS The Genuine Porsche Sport Classic wheels are actually made in Italy.
Louis Balfour said:
I don’t really see a comparison between the 7.1 engine and the 7.2 PDK. The engine was poor, the box wasn’t. It’s just seems a bit slow by today’s standards. Still a nice thing to drive and if you’ve only 997 money and the requirement to drive a lot in town the PDK wins IMHO.
The PDK generally can only be fixed by Porsche and I understand its a bill not far off the engine on the .1. Not saying PDKs are falling left right and centre, just that its the weakest link, if any, in the .2. As you say, the tech never ages so so well, not unlike the F355 "F1" or the E46 SMGs, the appeal is more in the manual for a "fun" car.
But yes, for same-ish money you'd likely go .2 PDK over .1 manual!
RiccardoG said:
Louis Balfour said:
I don’t really see a comparison between the 7.1 engine and the 7.2 PDK. The engine was poor, the box wasn’t. It’s just seems a bit slow by today’s standards. Still a nice thing to drive and if you’ve only 997 money and the requirement to drive a lot in town the PDK wins IMHO.
The PDK generally can only be fixed by Porsche and I understand its a bill not far off the engine on the .1. Not saying PDKs are falling left right and centre, just that its the weakest link, if any, in the .2. As you say, the tech never ages so so well, not unlike the F355 "F1" or the E46 SMGs, the appeal is more in the manual for a "fun" car.
But yes, for same-ish money you'd likely go .2 PDK over .1 manual!
Louis Balfour said:
My 7.2 was always under warranty and I didn’t have any ‘box issues. I would be surprised however if Porsche were the only repairers, given also that it is not a Porsche ‘box afaik. There is always someone prepared to wrench some work away from Porsche at lower labour rates.
I believe that the issue is getting hold of the parts (gears, cogs, what have you....).RiccardoG said:
The PDK generally can only be fixed by Porsche and I understand its a bill not far off the engine on the .1. Not saying PDKs are falling left right and centre, just that its the weakest link, if any, in the .2.
I dont think PDK is a weak link. I know there are a very low percentage of failures. But I understand it is a potential failure point so I am not outright disagreeing with You. You can make the same argument for the engines - they are a potential weak link also.Moving on....
I asked Porsche about a repair for the PDK box in my 981. So I have first hand knowledge here. I was told they can not be repaired. They can be replaced on an exchange basis. So the cost isn't quite as eye watering. For comparison there is no exchange option on 996 manual gearboxes. The old box needs to pass a visual inspection only - nothing obviously cracked or a piece snapped off. This sounded like a tick box exercise if you ask Me. My car was crash damaged so maybe this is why the Porsche tech stressed this point to Me. Either way I think it would be hard to damage the outer casing of a PDK box and the car still be in a usable state so it seems unlikely your old one would be rejected. But again a very very low percentage possibility. I was told the cost for this was 6250 or 6850 + VAT - cant quite remember. This was 2019.
I then managed to get the PDK box in my car fixed but it only needed some replacement seals. So the box wasn't opened. It was just removed, seals changed and put back in.
I called a few gearbox specialists to discuss this and none were even willing to look at the car. I also called a few Porsche specialists and they were all equally uninterested. The reason given seemed to be that Porsche dont sell any spares for these. Therefore it is basically impossible to fix one.
Slippydiff - recommended the gearbox place who did fix my car. Without this referral I would have been snookered. It was a 250 mile drive - each way. The phone call was very short. I have this car and its leaking oil - fine just bring it in.
In my view that this is deliberate by Porsche so any and all failures go back to Porsche themselves, so they can see why they failed, effectively testing in the field and it also prevents any 3rd parties getting involved. Not exactly good form.
Finally I think it is worth mentioning the benefits of buying a PDK car over a manual. There is a long list of bits and pieces which will start to age or tire on a manual car and therefore might need replacing at some point - below. I've been through this dance on my 996 and it adds up quickly. I'd say it can be 3 grand all in - maybe more. I did this 6 or 7 years ago on my 1998 car and I am seeing similar failures on my 2001 car. None of these exist on the PDK cars so you just need to keep up with fluid changes and that's that. A 997 with a tired clutch and sloppy gear lever isnt the best in terms of driving experience. A PDK just works, always, unless it breaks.
Clutch
Flywheel
Slave Cylinder
Master Cylinder
Clutch pipe - rigid
Clutch pipe - flexi
Gear lever mechanism
Gear lever to gearbox cables
RiccardoG said:
Louis Balfour said:
My 7.2 was always under warranty and I didn’t have any ‘box issues. I would be surprised however if Porsche were the only repairers, given also that it is not a Porsche ‘box afaik. There is always someone prepared to wrench some work away from Porsche at lower labour rates.
I believe that the issue is getting hold of the parts (gears, cogs, what have you....).Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
Louis Balfour said:
RiccardoG said:
Louis Balfour said:
My 7.2 was always under warranty and I didn’t have any ‘box issues. I would be surprised however if Porsche were the only repairers, given also that it is not a Porsche ‘box afaik. There is always someone prepared to wrench some work away from Porsche at lower labour rates.
I believe that the issue is getting hold of the parts (gears, cogs, what have you....).Gixer968CS said:
Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
OPC?Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
Louis Balfour said:
The poster above me has just confirmed what you said!
ATM definitely has the experience, so I bow to his superiod knowledge! Thanks for the explanation ATM!Either way, an 80k mile £29k 997.2 remains a great bargain and I think its definitely worth it. If I didn't love my 997.1 so much having owned it 12 years and kept it ti top I'd be severely tempted myself.
ATM said:
OPC?
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
£1k for cooalnt engine over pipes is about right. Had confirmation of this last weekend from my specialist. Also same price quoted by Friends of Green. 2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
MUst be able to be done cheaper. Aren't 911 engines supposed to be easy to drop? Or was that just the air-cooled ones? I recall something about 20 minutes to drop for an experrienced mech?
ATM said:
Gixer968CS said:
Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
OPC?Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
Gixer968CS said:
ATM said:
Gixer968CS said:
Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
OPC?Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
RiccardoG said:
ATM said:
OPC?
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
£1k for cooalnt engine over pipes is about right. Had confirmation of this last weekend from my specialist. Also same price quoted by Friends of Green. 2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
MUst be able to be done cheaper. Aren't 911 engines supposed to be easy to drop? Or was that just the air-cooled ones? I recall something about 20 minutes to drop for an experrienced mech?
Edited by Gixer968CS on Wednesday 19th June 15:14
Gixer968CS said:
ATM said:
Gixer968CS said:
Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
OPC?Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
This is mine from 2022 - I will not get into a conversation about inflation
These boys had the job done in 6 hours. If you assume an hour to fiddle with the gearbox then its only a 5 hour job to get it out and back in. I'd like to say 4 hours but you can drawer your own collusion - deliberate typo.
Then you are saying many many hours to change a coolant pipe, drain and refill coolant. Sounds punchy to Me.
EDITED TO ADD - OOPS sorry
I thought we were talking gearbox removal not engine. Ok maybe thats a different kettle of fish.
ATM said:
Gixer968CS said:
ATM said:
Gixer968CS said:
Car went in for a routine "B" service and the guys sent me this:
Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
OPC?Unfortunately, that's the one that runs down the side of the gearbox and so ....... engine out to replace a £100 coolant pipe. That's the second time that's happened to me - the first time was to replace a broken piece of loom, which also cost less than £100. So that's about £2k to replace a £100 part
It aint cheap running a 997!
2k for that sounds very steep to Me. I had my PDK gearbox removed and seals replaced for half that.
This is mine from 2022 - I will not get into a conversation about inflation
These boys had the job done in 6 hours. If you assume an hour to fiddle with the gearbox then its only a 5 hour job to get it out and back in. I'd like to say 4 hours but you can drawer your own collusion - deliberate typo.
Then you are saying many many hours to change a coolant pipe, drain and refill coolant. Sounds punchy to Me.
EDITED TO ADD - OOPS sorry
I thought we were talking gearbox removal not engine. Ok maybe thats a different kettle of fish.
KittyLitter said:
This one is relisted - I swear this has been for sale for 4 years or more
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/9453843
It has! I remember its being advertised when I got my C4S X51 in 2019. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/9453843
An acquired taste. The X51 is superb though!
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