996-997 wet-sump engine reliability: enter your stats here!
Discussion
tonikaram said:
All,
Let's establish a ratio. All those who owned a 996 non GT3/GT2, please just reply to this thread with the year model, how many years of ownership, and whether the engine failed.
I'm getting to the bottom of this!
Kay
Three 996 engine failures to add to the list (see below). There's one more I know about (also reported on this forum) but I cannot recall enough to find it. Let's establish a ratio. All those who owned a 996 non GT3/GT2, please just reply to this thread with the year model, how many years of ownership, and whether the engine failed.
I'm getting to the bottom of this!
Kay
hussar10a – 996 C4S Tip,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“three years old, 25k miles”. “Intermediate shaft failure !!!!!”
Rossfitz: 996 – 1999, 75K miles
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“complete engine failure. In for RMS and discovered an intermediate shaft was worn and about to fail”
xTVR – 2002, 36k mile 996 c2 in for 48k mile service
”Informed yesterday that RMS needs replacing. Then told today that intermediate shaft bearing slightly worn so engine needs rebuild”.
If you're interested, I'd also report a friend's 2002 986S which has 29k miles and has been trouble free (owned since new).
Here's hoping we can keep this thread firmly on topic.
996 3.4 1998. Owned 2 years, from 2004-06. Put 40k miles on it. Replacement RMS fitted prior to purchase, plus another later (72 k service I think). Sold it with 96k on the clock for a 996 TT. No other engine problems except oil filler coming loose.
Other problems to watch for - radiators tend to go around 60-65k miles and are expensive to replace.
Oil linkage also tends to fail around 60k (has happenend on both my 996 and the 996tt). Due to low cost plastic part it appears.
If you can get Porsche warrantee it's a bargain at £895 a year including Euro breakdown cover as it will pay for itself it you get any kind of a problem during the year.
996tt uses different and much more robust engine based on Le Mans 98 design (as does GT3 and GT2)so does not suffer the RMS premature problem associated with the 996 3.4 and 3.6.
Other problems to watch for - radiators tend to go around 60-65k miles and are expensive to replace.
Oil linkage also tends to fail around 60k (has happenend on both my 996 and the 996tt). Due to low cost plastic part it appears.
If you can get Porsche warrantee it's a bargain at £895 a year including Euro breakdown cover as it will pay for itself it you get any kind of a problem during the year.
996tt uses different and much more robust engine based on Le Mans 98 design (as does GT3 and GT2)so does not suffer the RMS premature problem associated with the 996 3.4 and 3.6.
Current stats:
Out of 68 996's:
- 14.7% or 10 engine failures (six 3.4 and four 3.6)
- 54% or 37 cases have had RMS. When you have it, you get it on average 1.3 times.
- 38% or 26 cases have had none of these two problems (fifteen 3.4s, ten 3.6, one unspecified).
In the survey, there are twenty-eight 3,6s, thirty-six 3.4s, and four unspecified
I do think that even if the actual percentage was much less, say 1/4th of this percentage, it is still rather concerning. I am surprised.
RMS distribution:
1998 5 RMS out of 7 cars in survey
1999 7 RMS out of 12 cars in survey
2000 3 RMS out of 9 cars in survey
2001 4 RMS out of 6 cars in survey
2002 7 RMS out of 11 cars in survey
2003 6 RMS out of 9 cars in survey
2004 0 RMS out of 4 cars in survey
10 entries in the stats didn't specify the year. 5 were affected by RMS.
engine failure distribution:
1998 2 failures out of 7 cars in survey
1999 3 failures out of 12 cars in survey
2000 0 failures out of 9 cars in survey
2001 1 failures out of 6 cars in survey
2002 2 failures out of 11 cars in survey
2003 0 failures out of 9 cars in survey
2004 1 failure out 4 cars in survey
10 entries didn't specify the year, 1 with a failure.
[i]Dataset:
ID enginefailure failuremileage rms rmsmileage currentmileage enginesize year username
1 1 failure 3 RMS 36 3.6 2002 xTVR
2 1 failure no RMS 48 3.4 1998 siko
3 no failure 1 RMS 55 3.6 2001 Wetwipe
4 no failure no RMS Bumcrack
5 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
6 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
7 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
8 no failure 1 RMS 18 30 3.6 2002 steve996
9 no failure 1 RMS 55 64 3.4 1998 jonny996
10 no failure 1 RMS 53 56 3.4 1999 Ballcock
11 no failure 1 RMS 26 3.4 2001 2something
12 1 failure 10 1 RMS 50 3.4 1999 fastfreddy
13 1 failure 25 No RMS 25 3.6 2004 hussar10a
14 no failure 3 RMS 25 3.6 2003 Dreammeister
15 no failure 1 RMS 3.6 Geneve
16 no failure no RMS 3.4 Geneve
17 no failure 2 RMS 3.6 2002 whoami
18 no failure no RMS 11 3.6 2004 C4SCAB
19 no failure 1 RMS 62 3.4 1999 HONEYMON57ER
20 no failure no RMS 7 3.4 2000 mbutchers
21 no failure no RMS 5 3.6 2003 mbutchers
22 no failure 1 RMS 18 3.6 2003 mbutchers
23 no failure 1 RMS 40 60 3.4 1999 nbetts
24 no failure no RMS 25 3.6 2003 nbetts
25 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2000 R1_JON
26 no failure no RMS 3.4 Homer J
27 no failure 2 RMS 35 3.6 2003 deevee
28 1 failure 29 1 RMS 29 3.6 2002 joelasagna
29 no failure 1 RMS 48 3.6 2002 baptistsan
30 no failure no RMS 55 3.4 1999 The Griffalo
31 no failure no RMS 19 3.4 2000 Ir Baboon
32 no failure 1 RMS 30 68 3.4 2000 Vesuvius 996
33 no failure 1 RMS 42 3.4 DucatiGary
34 no failure no RMS 24 3.6 2004 andrew!
35 no failure no RMS 66 3.4 1998 EVO575
36 no failure no RMS 95 3.4 1999 Ogiii
37 no failure 3 RMS 45 3.6 2001 thepilsbury
38 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 wadfa
39 no failure no RMS 67 3.4 1999 LeeME3
40 no failure no RMS 17 3.6 2004 widebody
41 1 failure 86 no RMS 3.4 1999 italiansummer
42 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.6 2003 alxce
43 1 failure 70 1 RMS 3.4 1998 TheMonster
44 no failure 1 RMS 15 3.6 2003 fulham911club
45 no failure 1 RMS 11 3.4 1999 Jessica_Wabbit
46 no failure 1 RMS 4 3.6 2003 Jessica_Wabbit
47 no failure no RMS 52 3.4 2000 tracer.smart
48 no failure 1 RMS 52 3.6 2002 Spid
49 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 2001 Neilpeel59
50 no failure 2 RMS 80 3.6 2002 flow99
51 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 Fabster
52 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.4 2000 Ragtop
53 no failure no RMS 12 3.6 2002 Ragtop
54 no failure no RMS 49 3.4 2000 Diesel130
55 no failure no RMS 56 3.6 2002 nxi20
56 no failure no RMS 9 3.6 2003 C4S 3.6
57 1 failure 75 3 RMS 65 3.4 1999 rossfitz
58 1 failure 15 no RMS 18 3.6 headlesshorseman
59 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 1999 richardb.jones
60 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 1998 gfreeman
61 1 failure 63 no RMS 63 3.4 2001 g_j_d
62 no failure 1 RMS 44 3.4 2001 welshnobby
63 no failure 1 RMS 86 3.4 1999 kVA
64 no failure no RMS 40 3.4 2000 GMMK
65 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 bigsi
66 no failure no RMS 3.4 2000 gmk666
67 no failure 2 RMS 72 96 3.4 1998 Stew The Bench
68 no failure 1 RMS 54 62 3.4 1998 mikeo996
[/i]
Kay
Out of 68 996's:
- 14.7% or 10 engine failures (six 3.4 and four 3.6)
- 54% or 37 cases have had RMS. When you have it, you get it on average 1.3 times.
- 38% or 26 cases have had none of these two problems (fifteen 3.4s, ten 3.6, one unspecified).
In the survey, there are twenty-eight 3,6s, thirty-six 3.4s, and four unspecified
I do think that even if the actual percentage was much less, say 1/4th of this percentage, it is still rather concerning. I am surprised.
RMS distribution:
1998 5 RMS out of 7 cars in survey
1999 7 RMS out of 12 cars in survey
2000 3 RMS out of 9 cars in survey
2001 4 RMS out of 6 cars in survey
2002 7 RMS out of 11 cars in survey
2003 6 RMS out of 9 cars in survey
2004 0 RMS out of 4 cars in survey
10 entries in the stats didn't specify the year. 5 were affected by RMS.
engine failure distribution:
1998 2 failures out of 7 cars in survey
1999 3 failures out of 12 cars in survey
2000 0 failures out of 9 cars in survey
2001 1 failures out of 6 cars in survey
2002 2 failures out of 11 cars in survey
2003 0 failures out of 9 cars in survey
2004 1 failure out 4 cars in survey
10 entries didn't specify the year, 1 with a failure.
[i]Dataset:
ID enginefailure failuremileage rms rmsmileage currentmileage enginesize year username
1 1 failure 3 RMS 36 3.6 2002 xTVR
2 1 failure no RMS 48 3.4 1998 siko
3 no failure 1 RMS 55 3.6 2001 Wetwipe
4 no failure no RMS Bumcrack
5 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
6 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
7 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
8 no failure 1 RMS 18 30 3.6 2002 steve996
9 no failure 1 RMS 55 64 3.4 1998 jonny996
10 no failure 1 RMS 53 56 3.4 1999 Ballcock
11 no failure 1 RMS 26 3.4 2001 2something
12 1 failure 10 1 RMS 50 3.4 1999 fastfreddy
13 1 failure 25 No RMS 25 3.6 2004 hussar10a
14 no failure 3 RMS 25 3.6 2003 Dreammeister
15 no failure 1 RMS 3.6 Geneve
16 no failure no RMS 3.4 Geneve
17 no failure 2 RMS 3.6 2002 whoami
18 no failure no RMS 11 3.6 2004 C4SCAB
19 no failure 1 RMS 62 3.4 1999 HONEYMON57ER
20 no failure no RMS 7 3.4 2000 mbutchers
21 no failure no RMS 5 3.6 2003 mbutchers
22 no failure 1 RMS 18 3.6 2003 mbutchers
23 no failure 1 RMS 40 60 3.4 1999 nbetts
24 no failure no RMS 25 3.6 2003 nbetts
25 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2000 R1_JON
26 no failure no RMS 3.4 Homer J
27 no failure 2 RMS 35 3.6 2003 deevee
28 1 failure 29 1 RMS 29 3.6 2002 joelasagna
29 no failure 1 RMS 48 3.6 2002 baptistsan
30 no failure no RMS 55 3.4 1999 The Griffalo
31 no failure no RMS 19 3.4 2000 Ir Baboon
32 no failure 1 RMS 30 68 3.4 2000 Vesuvius 996
33 no failure 1 RMS 42 3.4 DucatiGary
34 no failure no RMS 24 3.6 2004 andrew!
35 no failure no RMS 66 3.4 1998 EVO575
36 no failure no RMS 95 3.4 1999 Ogiii
37 no failure 3 RMS 45 3.6 2001 thepilsbury
38 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 wadfa
39 no failure no RMS 67 3.4 1999 LeeME3
40 no failure no RMS 17 3.6 2004 widebody
41 1 failure 86 no RMS 3.4 1999 italiansummer
42 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.6 2003 alxce
43 1 failure 70 1 RMS 3.4 1998 TheMonster
44 no failure 1 RMS 15 3.6 2003 fulham911club
45 no failure 1 RMS 11 3.4 1999 Jessica_Wabbit
46 no failure 1 RMS 4 3.6 2003 Jessica_Wabbit
47 no failure no RMS 52 3.4 2000 tracer.smart
48 no failure 1 RMS 52 3.6 2002 Spid
49 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 2001 Neilpeel59
50 no failure 2 RMS 80 3.6 2002 flow99
51 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 Fabster
52 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.4 2000 Ragtop
53 no failure no RMS 12 3.6 2002 Ragtop
54 no failure no RMS 49 3.4 2000 Diesel130
55 no failure no RMS 56 3.6 2002 nxi20
56 no failure no RMS 9 3.6 2003 C4S 3.6
57 1 failure 75 3 RMS 65 3.4 1999 rossfitz
58 1 failure 15 no RMS 18 3.6 headlesshorseman
59 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 1999 richardb.jones
60 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 1998 gfreeman
61 1 failure 63 no RMS 63 3.4 2001 g_j_d
62 no failure 1 RMS 44 3.4 2001 welshnobby
63 no failure 1 RMS 86 3.4 1999 kVA
64 no failure no RMS 40 3.4 2000 GMMK
65 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 bigsi
66 no failure no RMS 3.4 2000 gmk666
67 no failure 2 RMS 72 96 3.4 1998 Stew The Bench
68 no failure 1 RMS 54 62 3.4 1998 mikeo996
[/i]
bcnrml said:
Three 996 engine failures to add to the list (see below).
hussar10a – 996 C4S Tip,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“three years old, 25k miles”. “Intermediate shaft failure !!!!!”
Rossfitz: 996 – 1999, 75K miles
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“complete engine failure. In for RMS and discovered an intermediate shaft was worn and about to fail”
xTVR – 2002, 36k mile 996 c2 in for 48k mile service
”Informed yesterday that RMS needs replacing. Then told today that intermediate shaft bearing slightly worn so engine needs rebuild”.
bcnrml, all three cases above have written their entries earlier on themselves. This db is carrying a large number of people. hussar10a – 996 C4S Tip,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“three years old, 25k miles”. “Intermediate shaft failure !!!!!”
Rossfitz: 996 – 1999, 75K miles
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
“complete engine failure. In for RMS and discovered an intermediate shaft was worn and about to fail”
xTVR – 2002, 36k mile 996 c2 in for 48k mile service
”Informed yesterday that RMS needs replacing. Then told today that intermediate shaft bearing slightly worn so engine needs rebuild”.
Kay
Edited by tonikaram on Tuesday 14th August 16:36
Over half of all 996’s had RMS (54%) and 14% of 996’s engine failed. Completely skewed data isn’t a help to anyone.
Don’t which is more unbelievable, the 14% engine failure rate or RMS affecting half the cars sold.
Forgot to mention, I've had 3 Porsche and none had any engine probs, only mentioned my 996 originally, don't know if you want to to include this
Wonder what the real rates are?
Don’t which is more unbelievable, the 14% engine failure rate or RMS affecting half the cars sold.
Forgot to mention, I've had 3 Porsche and none had any engine probs, only mentioned my 996 originally, don't know if you want to to include this
Wonder what the real rates are?
Thanks Kay - useful stats. The stats appear to support the info coming from friends in Germany. Interesting comments you also made earlier with respect to Austrian data trends. Forums here (in Spain) appear to assuage concerns by referring to the wealth of common 996 problems already posted in the US. I'd hoped the rate would be circa 5% or less, but like you I am surprised. Dunit's postings have been equally informative (thanks Dunit for the erudition!).
With respect to our friends in denial, that is a psychological issue best served by another forum, so no further commentary is necessary.
As for me, I'm no psychologist, so I'm off to the beach instead!
Happy holidays folks!
With respect to our friends in denial, that is a psychological issue best served by another forum, so no further commentary is necessary.
As for me, I'm no psychologist, so I'm off to the beach instead!
Happy holidays folks!
tonikaram said:
Bumcrack said:
Don’t which is more unbelievable, the 14% engine failure rate or RMS affecting half the cars sold.
Over half the cars sold being affected by RMS is surprising? Didn't think so at all, judging from the owners here I've talked to.Kay
Keep smiling!
Edited by bcnrml on Tuesday 14th August 18:40
bcnrml said:
tonikaram said:
Bumcrack said:
Don’t which is more unbelievable, the 14% engine failure rate or RMS affecting half the cars sold.
Over half the cars sold being affected by RMS is surprising? Didn't think so at all, judging from the owners here I've talked to.Kay
Keep smiling!
Edited by bcnrml on Tuesday 14th August 18:40
Yes of course I’m in denial, what a laugh
Well I'm going to stick my neck out at this stage and say that though the data/thread is well worth a read , I still believe that folk are more inclined to answer this thread if they've had an engine failure , so the data is skewed imho.
I'm guessing the engine failure rate is more like something between 2 and 5%..
Still unacceptably high , I might add...
I'm guessing the engine failure rate is more like something between 2 and 5%..
Still unacceptably high , I might add...
tonikaram said:
there are 10 registered users here who had a blown 996 engine.
Well here's an interesting stat on the 10 registered users ..Half of them have posted on PH 30 times or less..
themonster .......... 29 posts
headlesshorseman .... 26 posts
italiansummer ....... 1 post
joelasagna .......... 1 post
g j d ............... 1 post
And remember , the no. of posts under the name is a running total , so three of the five 'registered users' have only made one contribution to PH ... Ever.
Ballcock - I doubt I will ever post here but this one time, but I wanted to add to the stats for Kay (tonikaram). This is the only reason I registered. I hope that my information is still of value. 
I just registered on this site. I recently bought a 996 knowing about the RMS issue with the model. I think the RMS issue and water cooling stigma are the only reasons this used car was in my price range.
I bought a 1999 C2 with 59000 miles on the odometer. It has never suffered from the RMS issue. It has full service records and I had a top local independent Porsche service center I have used for my other cars inspect it prior to purchase.
The car is VIN WPOAA299XXS62ABCD (where ABCD is MINE).
Thanks to sites like yours and rennlist I was made aware of this issue as a used car buyer and able to do the best I could to avoid a car with a recurring issue. Just to be safe I have purcahsed a 4 year / 40,000 mile powertrain warranty for the first time...
Count my car as no problems and I will be sure to update you if I have any issues.
Thanks for trying to put together some stats!
Jason
1978 928
1982 931
1986 951
1999 996
I just registered on this site. I recently bought a 996 knowing about the RMS issue with the model. I think the RMS issue and water cooling stigma are the only reasons this used car was in my price range.
I bought a 1999 C2 with 59000 miles on the odometer. It has never suffered from the RMS issue. It has full service records and I had a top local independent Porsche service center I have used for my other cars inspect it prior to purchase.
The car is VIN WPOAA299XXS62ABCD (where ABCD is MINE).
Thanks to sites like yours and rennlist I was made aware of this issue as a used car buyer and able to do the best I could to avoid a car with a recurring issue. Just to be safe I have purcahsed a 4 year / 40,000 mile powertrain warranty for the first time...
Count my car as no problems and I will be sure to update you if I have any issues.
Thanks for trying to put together some stats!
Jason
1978 928
1982 931
1986 951
1999 996
Edited by jjester on Sunday 19th August 19:19
Edited by jjester on Sunday 19th August 19:19
Edited by jjester on Sunday 19th August 19:20
Thanks for helping to even the score Jester!!
Btw , it might be a good idea to delete your vin number from the post in case someone decides they'd like to use it on their 'recently acquired' 996..
I know it's visable in the windscreen anyway , but best not make things too easy for em.
Btw , it might be a good idea to delete your vin number from the post in case someone decides they'd like to use it on their 'recently acquired' 996..
I know it's visable in the windscreen anyway , but best not make things too easy for em.
As one of the few Porsche Specialists who has all of his cars main dealer serviced and puts an OPC warranty on all cars under 9 years old ( This is not a free ad please read to the end)
All my cars have to have a dry RMS in order to qualify for the warranty, I very rarely buy a car with more than 20,000 miles on it
My own experience is that 60% of the cars i buy need the RMS changing, Ok I'm not one of the larger volume specialists i sell 40/50 cars a year
I've had 4 997's this year 3 needed the rms doing
I ve had one 3,000 miles 996 C2 3.4 that was on its 3 rms and the car was 5 years old
An OPC will give a goodwill contribution towards an owner subject to mileage, OPC servicing, age of car, and Porsche ownership history, this is administred by the OPC not Porsche Gb HQ,
But alas the trade receive no treatment
I had a 997 2 years and 2 weeks old serviced 3 weeks prior to purchase
RMS gone cost me £650 and the servicing OPC said the car was dry 60 miles agao when they serviced it,
Not had much customer feed back re engine rebuilds but i'll only sell a car with an OPC warranty, (theres no way i can factor into business plan £10K warranty claims and what warranty co other than porsche will pay out 10K for a new engine car Care Plan ? I suspect not) How other specialists look after their customers amazes me but that isnt the topic in point here
I am told but its too new recent to know that post may 05 997 have the 7th redesigned RM Seal which will not leak, I am told that they have yet to have one of these leak but i am watching that space!!
All my cars have to have a dry RMS in order to qualify for the warranty, I very rarely buy a car with more than 20,000 miles on it
My own experience is that 60% of the cars i buy need the RMS changing, Ok I'm not one of the larger volume specialists i sell 40/50 cars a year
I've had 4 997's this year 3 needed the rms doing
I ve had one 3,000 miles 996 C2 3.4 that was on its 3 rms and the car was 5 years old
An OPC will give a goodwill contribution towards an owner subject to mileage, OPC servicing, age of car, and Porsche ownership history, this is administred by the OPC not Porsche Gb HQ,
But alas the trade receive no treatment
I had a 997 2 years and 2 weeks old serviced 3 weeks prior to purchase
RMS gone cost me £650 and the servicing OPC said the car was dry 60 miles agao when they serviced it,
Not had much customer feed back re engine rebuilds but i'll only sell a car with an OPC warranty, (theres no way i can factor into business plan £10K warranty claims and what warranty co other than porsche will pay out 10K for a new engine car Care Plan ? I suspect not) How other specialists look after their customers amazes me but that isnt the topic in point here
I am told but its too new recent to know that post may 05 997 have the 7th redesigned RM Seal which will not leak, I am told that they have yet to have one of these leak but i am watching that space!!
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