What do you daily drive? ICE vs. hybrid vs. PHEV vs. EV
Discussion
Just curious on this, as we just replaced our family vehicle (a diesel Grand Voyager that we owned for 8 years) and ultimately decided to stick with a petrol ICE vehicle (Mazda CX5). However, I know a few people with EVs/hybrids/PHEVs, some have had EVs and gone back to ICE and others say that they would never go back. The hybrid/PHEV drivers seem more neutral and would either consider another hybrid/ICE or go full EV.
Our car is probably quite a rare spec. The diesel might seem to be the one to have but we plan to keep it a while, so I wanted to “futureproof” as much as I could against future ULEZ zones and Mazda diesels don’t have the best rep for reliability. It’s the 2.5 petrol automatic with AWD. We didn’t necessarily need AWD but I prefer to have it in that style of vehicle and whereas the 2.5 is hardly brisk, it’s perfectly adequate in a family vehicle and I thought that the smaller petrol engines might feel somewhat underpowered. This is our first “crossover” and I’ve been a bit of a sceptic but actually I really like it. It feels more spacious and compliant than our other car (a mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI Estate), quality feels nice, I like the way it looks (top spec model) , it’s just a pleasant comfy drive but the steering is actually pretty sharp and accurate and it seemed to represent pretty good value in the marketplace (2021 vehicle).
We had also considered a Honda CRV but I wanted the latest model and it was over budget and the latest Kia Sorento, which retains the extra seats that we had in our Grand Voyager (a useful bonus) but again for a comparable age/mileage would have been significantly more. Could have looked at a Qashqai as well I suppose (and looking now, they’re comparable money) but I liked that the Mazda was a bit different and less ubiquitous. The Mazda dealership is also very local to us, has a good reputation for service and has had the franchise for 20+ years. That being said, we had a few niggles with the Mazda post-delivery that they currently have it in to address and I am confident that they will return it to our satisfaction but whilst they have it, they lent us a new Honda CRV Hybrid (as they also have a Honda franchise on the same site).
If I’m honest, it’s probably a better car than our CX5. Feels a bit more modern inside, controls a bit more intuitive and more spacious but the Mazda is prettier IMHO and a bit more fun to drive and was significantly cheaper, so I’m happy with our decision (new CRV starts at 45k+ now)! The drivetrain was of most interest to me though, as I’ve never driven an EV/hybrid vehicle before and by my understanding the ICE engine in this vehicle is not actually connected to the wheels, it just acts as a generator for the electric motor, which drives the wheels. Hence it takes off silently and relatively briskly on the battery before the engine cuts in, which mostly sits at idle, so just hums gently in the background. It lacks a little character and “punchiness” compared to my turbo Golf but it is a very refined and seamless drivetrain. Fuel consumption is a little disappointing. I’m averaging around 36mpg (I believe that Honda claim around 44mpg), which I guess is not terrible for an AWD vehicle of this style and is a little bit better than the Mazda, which averages low 30s mpg but my petrol Golf consistently averages 45-50mpg. I didn’t realise that Nissan offered a similar system (ePower?) on the Juke/Qashqai/X-Trail and I believe the claim is around 50mpg on the QQ but it’s only available with FWD. I guess that’s comparable to a diesel-powered Qashqai though, so pretty decent.
It's interesting how the Japanese car manufacturers have different powertrain strategies. Mazda have very much stuck with petrol/diesel, Toyota are still mostly hybrid and some PHEV (but their hybrid system works a bit differently to Honda’s/Nissan’s system)?, Honda are all hybrid (apart from Type R) and some PHEV/EV and Nissan have ePower, full EV and petrol/diesel?
I’m not sure what I would go with next to be honest. A full EV really appeals as a commuting tool and would save me a lot of money in fuel but the ones on my budget (eGolf, Leaf, i3 etc) have limited range, which is a PITA, as I need to do longer journeys fairly regularly too. Purchase price is also a consideration. Looking at vehicles that are available as both petrol/diesel and electric versions (Vauxhall Corsa for example), the electric version is significantly more to buy compared to the petrol (which itself is not uneconomical to run) and the petrol car can handle any journey that I want to do in it with ease. The self-sufficient hybrid (like the QQ and CRV that I am currently driving) definitely have appeal but the fuel economy gains are marginal at best on the type of driving that I do (mostly A-road/motorway), where I think a petrol/diesel car might still be King. I can see that these kind of vehicles would be more suitable for mainly urban driving though, where a petrol/diesel would use more fuel, pollute more and potentially have more reliability issues, especially diesels. The PHEV is the one that still baffles me a little. On paper, I guess it offers the best of both worlds in one vehicle but then becomes compromised both as an EV and an ICE car. The ICE engine is normally downrated vs a comparable petrol car e.g. Golf GTE vs. Golf GTI and as a result of the extra weight, the dynamics/performance of the car when the battery is depleted will inevitably suffer. An ex-colleague had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he claimed to love but he was always phoning up sports venues that he had to take his son to at the weekend for matches to see if they had anywhere for him to charge. He could do his short commute on electric alone, which was a bit of a gamechanger I guess but he had charging issues with it too and ultimately, as well as offering the best of ICE/EV, it also offers the worst of each too.
So what kind of powertrain does your current daily driver have, does it give you all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of that format and would you stick with the same type of powertrain for your next vehicle or go for something different?
Our car is probably quite a rare spec. The diesel might seem to be the one to have but we plan to keep it a while, so I wanted to “futureproof” as much as I could against future ULEZ zones and Mazda diesels don’t have the best rep for reliability. It’s the 2.5 petrol automatic with AWD. We didn’t necessarily need AWD but I prefer to have it in that style of vehicle and whereas the 2.5 is hardly brisk, it’s perfectly adequate in a family vehicle and I thought that the smaller petrol engines might feel somewhat underpowered. This is our first “crossover” and I’ve been a bit of a sceptic but actually I really like it. It feels more spacious and compliant than our other car (a mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI Estate), quality feels nice, I like the way it looks (top spec model) , it’s just a pleasant comfy drive but the steering is actually pretty sharp and accurate and it seemed to represent pretty good value in the marketplace (2021 vehicle).
We had also considered a Honda CRV but I wanted the latest model and it was over budget and the latest Kia Sorento, which retains the extra seats that we had in our Grand Voyager (a useful bonus) but again for a comparable age/mileage would have been significantly more. Could have looked at a Qashqai as well I suppose (and looking now, they’re comparable money) but I liked that the Mazda was a bit different and less ubiquitous. The Mazda dealership is also very local to us, has a good reputation for service and has had the franchise for 20+ years. That being said, we had a few niggles with the Mazda post-delivery that they currently have it in to address and I am confident that they will return it to our satisfaction but whilst they have it, they lent us a new Honda CRV Hybrid (as they also have a Honda franchise on the same site).
If I’m honest, it’s probably a better car than our CX5. Feels a bit more modern inside, controls a bit more intuitive and more spacious but the Mazda is prettier IMHO and a bit more fun to drive and was significantly cheaper, so I’m happy with our decision (new CRV starts at 45k+ now)! The drivetrain was of most interest to me though, as I’ve never driven an EV/hybrid vehicle before and by my understanding the ICE engine in this vehicle is not actually connected to the wheels, it just acts as a generator for the electric motor, which drives the wheels. Hence it takes off silently and relatively briskly on the battery before the engine cuts in, which mostly sits at idle, so just hums gently in the background. It lacks a little character and “punchiness” compared to my turbo Golf but it is a very refined and seamless drivetrain. Fuel consumption is a little disappointing. I’m averaging around 36mpg (I believe that Honda claim around 44mpg), which I guess is not terrible for an AWD vehicle of this style and is a little bit better than the Mazda, which averages low 30s mpg but my petrol Golf consistently averages 45-50mpg. I didn’t realise that Nissan offered a similar system (ePower?) on the Juke/Qashqai/X-Trail and I believe the claim is around 50mpg on the QQ but it’s only available with FWD. I guess that’s comparable to a diesel-powered Qashqai though, so pretty decent.
It's interesting how the Japanese car manufacturers have different powertrain strategies. Mazda have very much stuck with petrol/diesel, Toyota are still mostly hybrid and some PHEV (but their hybrid system works a bit differently to Honda’s/Nissan’s system)?, Honda are all hybrid (apart from Type R) and some PHEV/EV and Nissan have ePower, full EV and petrol/diesel?
I’m not sure what I would go with next to be honest. A full EV really appeals as a commuting tool and would save me a lot of money in fuel but the ones on my budget (eGolf, Leaf, i3 etc) have limited range, which is a PITA, as I need to do longer journeys fairly regularly too. Purchase price is also a consideration. Looking at vehicles that are available as both petrol/diesel and electric versions (Vauxhall Corsa for example), the electric version is significantly more to buy compared to the petrol (which itself is not uneconomical to run) and the petrol car can handle any journey that I want to do in it with ease. The self-sufficient hybrid (like the QQ and CRV that I am currently driving) definitely have appeal but the fuel economy gains are marginal at best on the type of driving that I do (mostly A-road/motorway), where I think a petrol/diesel car might still be King. I can see that these kind of vehicles would be more suitable for mainly urban driving though, where a petrol/diesel would use more fuel, pollute more and potentially have more reliability issues, especially diesels. The PHEV is the one that still baffles me a little. On paper, I guess it offers the best of both worlds in one vehicle but then becomes compromised both as an EV and an ICE car. The ICE engine is normally downrated vs a comparable petrol car e.g. Golf GTE vs. Golf GTI and as a result of the extra weight, the dynamics/performance of the car when the battery is depleted will inevitably suffer. An ex-colleague had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which he claimed to love but he was always phoning up sports venues that he had to take his son to at the weekend for matches to see if they had anywhere for him to charge. He could do his short commute on electric alone, which was a bit of a gamechanger I guess but he had charging issues with it too and ultimately, as well as offering the best of ICE/EV, it also offers the worst of each too.
So what kind of powertrain does your current daily driver have, does it give you all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of that format and would you stick with the same type of powertrain for your next vehicle or go for something different?
wyson said:
I used to have this debate with myself, but then discovered the cheap leases thread. I’d always go for the best offer at the time. I do relatively low miles 3k to 5k a year around town so diesel is out, but would consider any other power train as I have the ability to charge from home.
The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
For me, 20k per year but I mostly use the Golf (8 years old now and around 120k). Commute is typically 35 miles each way, so a sub 200 mile range EV doable but I have to travel to our other location fairly regularly, which is just over 200 miles away, so that's a little marginal. My wife (who mostly uses the Mazda) is currently doing her PGCE, so her annual mileage is still a little up in the air at the moment. Has been fairly low up to now, as she has been working locally.The cost per year of use will be the overriding calculus for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention your annual mileage as I would have thought that would be a key factor in any power train decision.
Edited by wyson on Wednesday 26th June 20:45
T_S_M said:
Got an EV as my daily driver and would never go back to an ICE car for the purpose of going to and from work. Do around 20k miles a year to and from work and generally running about. Even if it cost the same to run as a petrol/diesel I still wouldn't change back, it's just nicer/easier/more relaxing to drive.
Still have a big V8 for weekends though.
You might have hit the nail on the head there. This is the ideal scenario but if you want to do everyday useability and fun car in one package due to budgetary/space constraints, it gets trickier. Quite fancy a mk7 Fiesta ST or Toyota GR86. An EV would probably be "better" for the commute but I can't think of an EV/hybrid currently available that would offer more fun.Still have a big V8 for weekends though.
BMW i3S possibly? Probably not though and more challenging for the longer journeys that I need to do.
BikeSausage said:
Two dailies: Honda E EV for local driving c. 5k p.a.
Volvo V90 Cc diesel for most other journeys. About 25k p.a.
Nice work choosing the Mazda. Excellent cars from an interesting maker.
Thanks. That's a good combo you have there. Yeah, I think that MX5-aside, Mazdas are a little underrated. Nice quality/ergonomics, very pleasant to drive (better than a lot of "premium" stuff I think) but not that potent, which is funny as the original Mazda 3 MPS was one of the most potent hot hatches out there in its day and at one time Mazda sold 3 sports coupes (MX3/MX6/RX7) concurrently. I think there is a more potent turbocharged version of the 2.5 4 cylinder in our car available in other markets but not here sadly.Volvo V90 Cc diesel for most other journeys. About 25k p.a.
Nice work choosing the Mazda. Excellent cars from an interesting maker.
I'd driven a new Mazda 3 and a Mazda 6 fairly recently and both near the top of their respective classes I would say. Mazda 3 feels quite old-school Honda/BMW, as you sit almost MX5 low and the cockpit has a very driver-oriented feel and I would say that the Mazda 6 is a nicer car than an Audi A4 but neither were really the kind of car that we were after. I hadn't driven a CX5 before but decided to try one and we both really liked it. Not fast but then I'm finding more and more that you can still have a car that's enjoyable and comfortable to drive without it being fast and "sporty" and do you really want to be driving at 10/10 with the family on board?
I could really see a small EV working for me as a commuter and keep the CX5 for longer journeys. I have a Suzuki 1200 Bandit for fun right now but I don't get to ride it as much as I would like due to it being too wet/windy/cold and in the back of my mind, the roads around here are getting busier, poorly maintained and driver standards getting worse, so although I love it, I don't want to come a cropper and would get much more use out of a sports car (something like an MX5/370Z Roadster), as I could still use it if it was cold/windy/wet but I don't have the budget/space for that right now.
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