First cheap track car. choices choices.
Discussion
After a calling in a Llandow circuit yesterday me and a mate want to have a go at some track days. We both have performance cars (172 cup and E30 325i with suspension mods). But We both want to keep our cars in nice original condition. Mines chavvy enough without putting bucket seats and a cage in it. So were thinking of going for a cheap car to use on tracks only.
We have been looking around a bit and have seen two cars that stand out. The first is an E36 328i low mileage, nice leathers, nice car, has a noisey diff but easily replaced.
The second is a 106 xs with the 1360cc engine. looks a half tidy little car but has bunk alloys and a massive exhaust.
Seen as though the budget is low. Our mods will consist of Stripping weight out massively, everything would go. Then cage, perspex windows, racing brake pads, maybe some suspension mods, Lightweight seats. That kind of thing.
Which car would give us the most fun per pound. Were not racing drivers so were not going to be quick out there anyway so were looing for something fun and cheap. I guess cheap is the most important.
Any suggestions. Or any other obvious cars to look for.
We have been looking around a bit and have seen two cars that stand out. The first is an E36 328i low mileage, nice leathers, nice car, has a noisey diff but easily replaced.
The second is a 106 xs with the 1360cc engine. looks a half tidy little car but has bunk alloys and a massive exhaust.
Seen as though the budget is low. Our mods will consist of Stripping weight out massively, everything would go. Then cage, perspex windows, racing brake pads, maybe some suspension mods, Lightweight seats. That kind of thing.
Which car would give us the most fun per pound. Were not racing drivers so were not going to be quick out there anyway so were looing for something fun and cheap. I guess cheap is the most important.
Any suggestions. Or any other obvious cars to look for.
GravelBen said:
MX5, MR2... someone had to say it 
Ye i know. But I allready have an Mx5. What you see is what you get. Can't strip any weight from them. Part of the fun is making a car perform well with weight loss, stiffening, better brakes. Its allready done on the 5's and they only really need a better engine. I dont fancy going down that road.doogz said:
I'm a big 106 fan.
But of the 2 of them, for track giggles, i'd have the 328.
Weirdly i'm a big BMW fan, but for track use I would say the 106 - lighter, so better for consumables, nice lift-off-oversteery-goodness! I run a 330i daily (Latest in a long long line of BMW's) but track an MX5! The 330i is brilliant, but nimble it is not, the E36's were better, but still didn't compare to something light and fun!But of the 2 of them, for track giggles, i'd have the 328.
YMMV
Making the committment to buy a car specifically for the track after a little trip to an admittedly fun, but very small circuit is a big step.
I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is rhe main killer on track. Get it serviced, change oil and filters and do your brakes and then get booked in on a couple of novice days. You'll get your kicks for much less, and then if you do decide to buy a car for the task you'll have a much better idea hat you want from it.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better. A 328 is a heavycar even when stripped compared to an MX-5 or even an MR2. In a 328 I'd be budgeting a set of tyres per track day, perhaps a set of R888's might last 2 days. In an Mx-5 you would get 4 days it of a set, and being smaller they're much cheaper too.
Another problem with the 328i is brakes - They're marginal even for road use and on track I wouldn't have faiith in them beyond lap 5. I'd be looking for M3 items or else aftermarket upgrades. Also, being heavy, suspension is a problem and cheap examples do have worn suspension parts. I'd want refreshed suspension for track work - Poly bushes, new lower front arms, new springs and dampers. I'd be budgeting £1000 for suspension and £500 for brakes, plus stripping it, £100 for the 325i manifold upgrade, and another £500 on wheels and tyres. Suddenly huge spent £2k on your £1k track toy and you've not even been to a track yet. £500 would have bought you wheels and tyres and a service for the 172, and £1k could buy a tatty but serivcable MX-5....
I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is rhe main killer on track. Get it serviced, change oil and filters and do your brakes and then get booked in on a couple of novice days. You'll get your kicks for much less, and then if you do decide to buy a car for the task you'll have a much better idea hat you want from it.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better. A 328 is a heavycar even when stripped compared to an MX-5 or even an MR2. In a 328 I'd be budgeting a set of tyres per track day, perhaps a set of R888's might last 2 days. In an Mx-5 you would get 4 days it of a set, and being smaller they're much cheaper too.
Another problem with the 328i is brakes - They're marginal even for road use and on track I wouldn't have faiith in them beyond lap 5. I'd be looking for M3 items or else aftermarket upgrades. Also, being heavy, suspension is a problem and cheap examples do have worn suspension parts. I'd want refreshed suspension for track work - Poly bushes, new lower front arms, new springs and dampers. I'd be budgeting £1000 for suspension and £500 for brakes, plus stripping it, £100 for the 325i manifold upgrade, and another £500 on wheels and tyres. Suddenly huge spent £2k on your £1k track toy and you've not even been to a track yet. £500 would have bought you wheels and tyres and a service for the 172, and £1k could buy a tatty but serivcable MX-5....
Edited by WeirdNeville on Sunday 13th February 10:53
E36 ! there are so many upgrades for them that are interchangeable with higher models such as E36 M3 brakes , engine etc, I'm looking at a project E36 325i coupe to build it up as and when I break it.....with the intention of eventually installing an E36 3.2 M3 Evo engine.
Great track cars and easy to drive quickly with plenty of tail happy action on demand.
or an Mx5 woul dbe great although it won't be anywhere near the grunt and power slide factor of the BM but still a cracking track car that is more about high corner speeds than balls out power downt he straights.....I'd say try and have a drive of what ever you're thinking of purchasing.
Clio cups with cages, buckets and harnesses in arn't chavvy
Great track cars and easy to drive quickly with plenty of tail happy action on demand.
or an Mx5 woul dbe great although it won't be anywhere near the grunt and power slide factor of the BM but still a cracking track car that is more about high corner speeds than balls out power downt he straights.....I'd say try and have a drive of what ever you're thinking of purchasing.
Clio cups with cages, buckets and harnesses in arn't chavvy
WeirdNeville said:
Making the committment to buy a car specifically for the track after a little trip to an admittedly fun, but very small circuit is a big step.
I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is rhe main killer on track. Get it serviced, change oil and filters and do your brakes and then get booked in on a couple of novice days. You'll get your kicks for much less, and then if you do decide to buy a car for the task you'll have a much better idea hat you want from it.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better. A 328 is a heavycar even when stripped compared to an MX-5 or even an MR2. In a 328 I'd be budgeting a set of tyres per track day, perhaps a set of R888's might last 2 days. In an Mx-5 you would get 4 days it of a set, and being smaller they're much cheaper too.
Another problem with the 328i is brakes - They're marginal even for road use and on track I wouldn't have faiith in them beyond lap 5. I'd be looking for M3 items or else aftermarket upgrades. Also, being heavy, suspension is a problem and cheap examples do have worn suspension parts. I'd want refreshed suspension for track work - Poly bushes, new lower front arms, new springs and dampers. I'd be budgeting £1000 for suspension and £500 for brakes, plus stripping it, £100 for the 325i manifold upgrade, and another £500 on wheels and tyres. Suddenly huge spent £2k on your £1k track toy and you've not even been to a track yet. £500 would have bought you wheels and tyres and a service for the 172, and £1k could buy a tatty but serivcable MX-5....
Yes. I should actually point out that I have a bit of trackday experience. When I say experience, I mean I once took my very nice late Mk2 golf GTi 16v to a trackday at castle coombe. 3 laps in I slid off the track at high speed and rolled my golf about 3 or 4 times. I was completely un hurt but my car was completely smashed to bits. Luckily it was a fairly cheap car and I sold the bits and recovered my costs. But I promissed myself I wouldn't go near a track without a cage again. I've rolled two cars in horrific smashes and walked away unscathed. Odds suggest I won't be so lucky next time. So you'll understand me not wnting to track my clio. I cant afford to lose it and allthough a great performer, I don't think the build quality lends itself to flat out track abuse AND daily driver.I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is rhe main killer on track. Get it serviced, change oil and filters and do your brakes and then get booked in on a couple of novice days. You'll get your kicks for much less, and then if you do decide to buy a car for the task you'll have a much better idea hat you want from it.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better. A 328 is a heavycar even when stripped compared to an MX-5 or even an MR2. In a 328 I'd be budgeting a set of tyres per track day, perhaps a set of R888's might last 2 days. In an Mx-5 you would get 4 days it of a set, and being smaller they're much cheaper too.
Another problem with the 328i is brakes - They're marginal even for road use and on track I wouldn't have faiith in them beyond lap 5. I'd be looking for M3 items or else aftermarket upgrades. Also, being heavy, suspension is a problem and cheap examples do have worn suspension parts. I'd want refreshed suspension for track work - Poly bushes, new lower front arms, new springs and dampers. I'd be budgeting £1000 for suspension and £500 for brakes, plus stripping it, £100 for the 325i manifold upgrade, and another £500 on wheels and tyres. Suddenly huge spent £2k on your £1k track toy and you've not even been to a track yet. £500 would have bought you wheels and tyres and a service for the 172, and £1k could buy a tatty but serivcable MX-5....
Edited by WeirdNeville on Sunday 13th February 10:53
Very mixed views so far. Maybe a cheap MX5 would be a good bet. I guess there is still weight to be shifted and they do look awesome on track. Can you actually still get the mk1's for a grand?
Another vote for the 328i here.
Most of what wierdneville says doesn't not match with my experience. His points are valid, but the conclusions he draws are not.
Yes they are relativley heavy, but a set of tyres every 2 track days? Not unless you are entering drift competitions. I must have done 4-7 track days since I bought my car and I'm still on the original tyres.
Brakes are not marginal for the road. Depending on the track they will be OK if you take it easy on them but it is true they probably need upgrading. I fitted a set of performance frictions 'Z' pads, with new (OEM) discs/fluid and I have never had a problem, even at Brands. Cost about £200, still on the first set of pads.
Suspension. Well, the standard set up is not that bad. I haven't upgraded mine and I still have lots of fun. Could it be better? Yes, of course but it's not some roley-poley lump of jelly and doesn't need doing. Nothing you are considering has suspension that will be good on track.
I don't know why you need a manifold upgrade, my engine seems to work fine on track without one. The 328i is by far the fastest of the cars you are considering, so if that needs an upgrade the MX-5 will need a supercharger and the 106 an engine transplant.
Rollcage? Why? Less need for it in a 328i then a cabrio like the MX-5, but again same as the others. It's not something extra a 328i needs...wheels/tyres...again, why?
Everytime these threads come up people talk about roll cages, fitting polycarbonate windows, that you need R888's on a seperate set of wheels, ceramic brakes etc etc. The fact is you don't. Pick a car, make sure it's in good shape, uprate the brakes and have fun. If you want to go down the route of making a track car, then great. Some of my friends have and their cars are awesome fun but you don't need to. Other then brake pads, my car is bone stock, not even stripped and it's great fun on track.
I choose a 328i because it's a tin top (safer in a crash), it has more power then other's I was considering, and it's RWD. I can't say if a 106/MX-5 or whatever would be better but 328i's are great.
If you are very serious, you may as well just start with an M3.
ETA: 328i vs MX-5 on track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI about 1:50 in. There's a clio (I assume 172 or 182) at 4:42 as well.
Most of what wierdneville says doesn't not match with my experience. His points are valid, but the conclusions he draws are not.
Yes they are relativley heavy, but a set of tyres every 2 track days? Not unless you are entering drift competitions. I must have done 4-7 track days since I bought my car and I'm still on the original tyres.
Brakes are not marginal for the road. Depending on the track they will be OK if you take it easy on them but it is true they probably need upgrading. I fitted a set of performance frictions 'Z' pads, with new (OEM) discs/fluid and I have never had a problem, even at Brands. Cost about £200, still on the first set of pads.
Suspension. Well, the standard set up is not that bad. I haven't upgraded mine and I still have lots of fun. Could it be better? Yes, of course but it's not some roley-poley lump of jelly and doesn't need doing. Nothing you are considering has suspension that will be good on track.
I don't know why you need a manifold upgrade, my engine seems to work fine on track without one. The 328i is by far the fastest of the cars you are considering, so if that needs an upgrade the MX-5 will need a supercharger and the 106 an engine transplant.
Rollcage? Why? Less need for it in a 328i then a cabrio like the MX-5, but again same as the others. It's not something extra a 328i needs...wheels/tyres...again, why?
Everytime these threads come up people talk about roll cages, fitting polycarbonate windows, that you need R888's on a seperate set of wheels, ceramic brakes etc etc. The fact is you don't. Pick a car, make sure it's in good shape, uprate the brakes and have fun. If you want to go down the route of making a track car, then great. Some of my friends have and their cars are awesome fun but you don't need to. Other then brake pads, my car is bone stock, not even stripped and it's great fun on track.
I choose a 328i because it's a tin top (safer in a crash), it has more power then other's I was considering, and it's RWD. I can't say if a 106/MX-5 or whatever would be better but 328i's are great.
If you are very serious, you may as well just start with an M3.
ETA: 328i vs MX-5 on track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI about 1:50 in. There's a clio (I assume 172 or 182) at 4:42 as well.
Edited by varsas on Sunday 13th February 13:02
WeirdNeville said:
Making the committment to buy a car specifically for the track after a little trip to an admittedly fun, but very small circuit is a big step.
I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is the main killer on track.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better.
Yes, all this is IMO right on the button. Especially the point about weight. The heavier the car the faster it will destroy tyres and brakes.I say just buy a second set of alloys and tyres (second hand even) for the 172. They're a great car and tyre wear is the main killer on track.
If you do go for a car, the lighter the better.
One track day can easily destroy a set of tyres (and brakes). So this needs to be in your budget.
Your brakes are designed by the manufacturer as a complete system. By all means fit different pads if you want, but more braking = more heat = greater chance of destroying the discs.
Take your track wheels to the track in the car and fit them there. Otherwise you're at real risk of having nothing to drive home on.
Edited by Ozzie Osmond on Sunday 13th February 12:41
Ozzie Osmond said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I guess you just enjoy driving round slowly! 
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI
These tyres have lasted a good few track days, there were a lot of people going more slowly then me.
Edited by varsas on Sunday 13th February 13:02
328. Strip it, including all sound deadening, replace heavy leather seats with two cheap lightweight bucket seats & two 4 point harnesses.
Change suspension to cheap coil-overs.
Job Done.
With the reduction of weight the brakes are adequate for track use. Keep going until the brakes & Tires go and then uprate them. We have done that with a mates E36 325.
Change suspension to cheap coil-overs.
Job Done.
With the reduction of weight the brakes are adequate for track use. Keep going until the brakes & Tires go and then uprate them. We have done that with a mates E36 325.
I had a quick look at 924s, prices are all over the place but this one:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2468319.htm
Lacks an interior (which you don't want) and a battery. If you are going to change the brakes and suspension anyway then wear isn't a problem, and 924s have their own championship so there should be plenty of knowledgeable people about.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2468319.htm
Lacks an interior (which you don't want) and a battery. If you are going to change the brakes and suspension anyway then wear isn't a problem, and 924s have their own championship so there should be plenty of knowledgeable people about.
Depending on your disposable income / budget for running track days, then smaller and lighter is better than something more powerful but relatively heavy.
You'll easily see off a pair of tyres on a 3-series in a day at many circuits, if not a full set of tyres.
Tracking an 'executive saloon' can get very expensive, very quickly - which is why I downsized from a 3-series sized car to an AX / Saxo sized car.
Christ knows how you managed to roll a car on a track day - most organisers would have black flagged you for being a t
t way before that happened....
You'll easily see off a pair of tyres on a 3-series in a day at many circuits, if not a full set of tyres.
Tracking an 'executive saloon' can get very expensive, very quickly - which is why I downsized from a 3-series sized car to an AX / Saxo sized car.
Christ knows how you managed to roll a car on a track day - most organisers would have black flagged you for being a t
t way before that happened....Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff