Had a bump - other party not playing ball
Discussion
I was unlucky enough to have a small bump on Christmas Eve - a woman in a Focus failed to give way at a crossroads and shot straight across in front of me. There was snow on the road so there was no way I could stop in time. I slid gently into the side of the her car (I'd only been doing about 15mph or so), but it proceeded to scrape right across the front of mine ripping my numberplate off and leaving black rubber marks all over my bumper.
She jumped out of the car and insisted that it was my fault and that I should have given way. It was only when she was shown the junction markings and a chap who witnessed it backed me up that she relented and offered me a fiver for my numberplate. I refused this and said I would obtain a written bill and send it to her for payment. She agreed.
After Christmas I washed all the salt and s
te off the front of the car and discovered that what I thought were rubber marks were actually areas where the paint has been scraped off (the bumper is black plastic underneath). I acquired an estimate for the paintwork which came to around £200 and had a new numberplate put on for about twenty quid. I sent the bill and the estimate to her just after new year and have not had any response.
Thanks to the joys of living in a small town where everyone knows everyone else, I have found out within the last couple of days that the name she gave at the scene is false (although the address was correct
), and I have good reason to believe that she is not going to pay for the damage.
The Police have said it is too late for them to get involved and that I should pursue the matter through my insurers. I'm reluctant to do this as my excess is twice the cost of the damage (the joys of being 20). That, coupled with the inevitable increase in premiums, makes it impossible to justify taking that approach.
What I need to know is whether I could approach her insurers (if I can find out who they are) independently without involving my own insurance company? I have an independent witness who has been great and is producing a written statement and diagram of the accident this weekend despite being on night shift.
If that isn't possible I think I'm just going to have to put this down to experience - I'd be grateful for any help the brains of PH could offer.
She jumped out of the car and insisted that it was my fault and that I should have given way. It was only when she was shown the junction markings and a chap who witnessed it backed me up that she relented and offered me a fiver for my numberplate. I refused this and said I would obtain a written bill and send it to her for payment. She agreed.
After Christmas I washed all the salt and s
te off the front of the car and discovered that what I thought were rubber marks were actually areas where the paint has been scraped off (the bumper is black plastic underneath). I acquired an estimate for the paintwork which came to around £200 and had a new numberplate put on for about twenty quid. I sent the bill and the estimate to her just after new year and have not had any response.Thanks to the joys of living in a small town where everyone knows everyone else, I have found out within the last couple of days that the name she gave at the scene is false (although the address was correct
), and I have good reason to believe that she is not going to pay for the damage.The Police have said it is too late for them to get involved and that I should pursue the matter through my insurers. I'm reluctant to do this as my excess is twice the cost of the damage (the joys of being 20). That, coupled with the inevitable increase in premiums, makes it impossible to justify taking that approach.
What I need to know is whether I could approach her insurers (if I can find out who they are) independently without involving my own insurance company? I have an independent witness who has been great and is producing a written statement and diagram of the accident this weekend despite being on night shift.
If that isn't possible I think I'm just going to have to put this down to experience - I'd be grateful for any help the brains of PH could offer.
I would imagine a visit to the address she gave you would be the first step if you don't want to involve the insurers. Although unlikely, she may simply not have received the estimate.
Failing that I guess you have to try the insurance route. If they find in your favour then your premiums may not increase that much, and if it's all got a bit vindictive then I suppose you have the satisfaction of knowing that her premiums will have gone up more...
Failing that I guess you have to try the insurance route. If they find in your favour then your premiums may not increase that much, and if it's all got a bit vindictive then I suppose you have the satisfaction of knowing that her premiums will have gone up more...
You can;t claim on your insurance, as the value of the claim is below your excess. You can't use an Accident Management Company, as there's no money in it for them, as you'v already completed the repairs. You could approach her insurers, but how do you propose to find that information out?
You could go to Court, although Courts are getting a bit fed up with people using them far too readily and might not award you costs, even if you win.
Ah, the joys of doing it yourself to avoid the ever-increasing cost of insurance premiums, only to find out later that you don't know what you're doing. Quite a bit like me and car servicing, or any form of DIY.
Effectively you're buggered. So my suggetion would be to knock on her door, ask if she'll play ball. If nt send a registered letter once a week for a month or two, then head off to court. At least that way, the court will see that you've tried (unsuccessfully) to resolve it first. Of course this does assume that you know how to issue proceedings and comply with the technicalities of our Legal system.
You could go to Court, although Courts are getting a bit fed up with people using them far too readily and might not award you costs, even if you win.
Ah, the joys of doing it yourself to avoid the ever-increasing cost of insurance premiums, only to find out later that you don't know what you're doing. Quite a bit like me and car servicing, or any form of DIY.
Effectively you're buggered. So my suggetion would be to knock on her door, ask if she'll play ball. If nt send a registered letter once a week for a month or two, then head off to court. At least that way, the court will see that you've tried (unsuccessfully) to resolve it first. Of course this does assume that you know how to issue proceedings and comply with the technicalities of our Legal system.
Tsippy said:
I would have thought the police could do something about her giving false details at the scene of an accident?
Absolutely - the Police are fobbing him off because they can't be bothered. She's committing at least a couple of offences and probably gave the name of someone who is actually insured to drive the car.
Go round to her address with your most sincere face on and lie.
"I'm sorry but I really can't afford to pay for the damage YOU caused. If you don't pay up then I will be forced to contact the police and your insurance company."
Throw in some bull about her leaving the scene of an accident, giving false details, possible prison sentence, how much her insurance will go up.
"I'm sorry but I really can't afford to pay for the damage YOU caused. If you don't pay up then I will be forced to contact the police and your insurance company."
Throw in some bull about her leaving the scene of an accident, giving false details, possible prison sentence, how much her insurance will go up.
inform your insurer. take full pics of the scene and relate the full story. with a corroborating witness you will win.
had a similar small bump last yr and ran a thread on it, maybe september time? she agreed to pay then tried to bargain me down from the £280 repair cost to her 'final offer' of £200. I'd already told my broker what happened and they'd note it but not act unless needed.
her insurers ended up paying nearly £600 for an approved repair plus a week's car hire.
had a similar small bump last yr and ran a thread on it, maybe september time? she agreed to pay then tried to bargain me down from the £280 repair cost to her 'final offer' of £200. I'd already told my broker what happened and they'd note it but not act unless needed.
her insurers ended up paying nearly £600 for an approved repair plus a week's car hire.
IMHO don't involve your insurer for something that cost you £200. Your premium rise will wipe this out.
As others have said - a polite request in person for your costs or you will report her to the police for giving false information at the scene of an accident. Remind her you have a independent witness.
Disappointing that the police aren't interested.
As others have said - a polite request in person for your costs or you will report her to the police for giving false information at the scene of an accident. Remind her you have a independent witness.
Disappointing that the police aren't interested.
I had a feeling the only way of sorting it would be to see her in person. Once I have the written statement I shall pay a visit - as you say, the fact that I could report her is a good bargaining tool.
I know the address is correct as I have seen the car parked there on a few diffferent occasions. That makes it all the more difficult to understand why she would give a false name.
Thank you all for your help - i'll keep the thread updated with what happens. :-)
I know the address is correct as I have seen the car parked there on a few diffferent occasions. That makes it all the more difficult to understand why she would give a false name.
Thank you all for your help - i'll keep the thread updated with what happens. :-)
False name, don't put it past her not being insured. Just a thought that you might want to plug the details into www.askmid.com to check.
Under the strict t&c's of your INS you are obliged to inform them of every incident even if you are not going to claim for the damage or that you ate paying for it personally.
Ihad a rear ender previously they tried the route of can we go outside of INS?? Um there is zero benefit to me just to them - as such I said it's a comp car I have no choice but to go through the INS turns out he thought the damage was a few hundred quid ... Sadly for his INS co it was £1k for hire car two weeks plus £2k parts plus labour ... Plus damage to his vehicle. Frankly I'd say you'd be a muppet to go any way but through your INS with an accident. It could turn nasty etc just let them deal with it. I know I don't have time during the working day to deal with this sort of thing frankly one a bi weekly call to my INS co was far too much time wasted IMHO.
To highlight if anyone has an accident with me even family it will be INS route far easier and that way no relationship is harmed and really that's never on the table as it's INS to INS discussions
Ihad a rear ender previously they tried the route of can we go outside of INS?? Um there is zero benefit to me just to them - as such I said it's a comp car I have no choice but to go through the INS turns out he thought the damage was a few hundred quid ... Sadly for his INS co it was £1k for hire car two weeks plus £2k parts plus labour ... Plus damage to his vehicle. Frankly I'd say you'd be a muppet to go any way but through your INS with an accident. It could turn nasty etc just let them deal with it. I know I don't have time during the working day to deal with this sort of thing frankly one a bi weekly call to my INS co was far too much time wasted IMHO.
To highlight if anyone has an accident with me even family it will be INS route far easier and that way no relationship is harmed and really that's never on the table as it's INS to INS discussions
Welshbeef said:
Under the strict t&c's of your INS you are obliged to inform them of every incident even if you are not going to claim for the damage or that you ate paying for it personally.
Ihad a rear ender previously they tried the route of can we go outside of INS?? Um there is zero benefit to me just to them - as such I said it's a comp car I have no choice but to go through the INS turns out he thought the damage was a few hundred quid ... Sadly for his INS co it was £1k for hire car two weeks plus £2k parts plus labour ... Plus damage to his vehicle. Frankly I'd say you'd be a muppet to go any way but through your INS with an accident. It could turn nasty etc just let them deal with it. I know I don't have time during the working day to deal with this sort of thing frankly one a bi weekly call to my INS co was far too much time wasted IMHO.
To highlight if anyone has an accident with me even family it will be INS route far easier and that way no relationship is harmed and really that's never on the table as it's INS to INS discussions
The damage is less than his excess, therefore not covered by his insurance. They won't intervene on a risk they aren't liable for.Ihad a rear ender previously they tried the route of can we go outside of INS?? Um there is zero benefit to me just to them - as such I said it's a comp car I have no choice but to go through the INS turns out he thought the damage was a few hundred quid ... Sadly for his INS co it was £1k for hire car two weeks plus £2k parts plus labour ... Plus damage to his vehicle. Frankly I'd say you'd be a muppet to go any way but through your INS with an accident. It could turn nasty etc just let them deal with it. I know I don't have time during the working day to deal with this sort of thing frankly one a bi weekly call to my INS co was far too much time wasted IMHO.
To highlight if anyone has an accident with me even family it will be INS route far easier and that way no relationship is harmed and really that's never on the table as it's INS to INS discussions
Not 100% legal not to disclose this to insurers.
But Welshbeef, be honest, there is plenty of benefit to him sorting it privately as well. Even a non-fault claim will load his insurance, a simple example on Confused.com etc with a change of just adding a non-fault claim will show you as much. Imo, whilst insurance is risk and profile based, I don't think it is morally right to load premiums for non fault incidents.
OP, I'd go round her house with the statement, ask her to cough up there and then or you'd report her for false details etc etc.
But Welshbeef, be honest, there is plenty of benefit to him sorting it privately as well. Even a non-fault claim will load his insurance, a simple example on Confused.com etc with a change of just adding a non-fault claim will show you as much. Imo, whilst insurance is risk and profile based, I don't think it is morally right to load premiums for non fault incidents.
OP, I'd go round her house with the statement, ask her to cough up there and then or you'd report her for false details etc etc.
You would be a lot better of paying for the damage yourself. Even if you do claim and you eventually win the case or even if she admits liability straight away; your insurance will still go up to a point where you will end up spending more money than what it would cost to fix the bumper yourself.
The likely-hood is, she will not accept liability. You will find yourself not being able to use any "no claims bonus's" from the point you start the claim to the point it ends. From my expeirence of 3 non fault crash's within as many years, the insurance company's will probably take well over a year to come to a conclusion (and that's if your lucky!).
I currently have a insurance dispute which has been going on for over 2 years now. A women reversed without looking from her driveway into the side of my stationary car. I had two witnesses which saw the accident, she admited liability which the witnesses also heard. She then changed her mind deciding it wasn't her fault a month later and here I am, over 2 years down the line still waiting for my no claim's to be reistablished.
Take my advice.
The likely-hood is, she will not accept liability. You will find yourself not being able to use any "no claims bonus's" from the point you start the claim to the point it ends. From my expeirence of 3 non fault crash's within as many years, the insurance company's will probably take well over a year to come to a conclusion (and that's if your lucky!).
I currently have a insurance dispute which has been going on for over 2 years now. A women reversed without looking from her driveway into the side of my stationary car. I had two witnesses which saw the accident, she admited liability which the witnesses also heard. She then changed her mind deciding it wasn't her fault a month later and here I am, over 2 years down the line still waiting for my no claim's to be reistablished.
Take my advice.
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