Do car makers buy rival's cars to test and disassemble?
Discussion
I've often wondered if big car manufacturers secretly buy their rivals cars, test to destruction and dissassemble to find out what makes them tick? I'm sure the likes of Honda and Toyota test their respective hatchbacks to compare ride quality, fuel economy etc but im more interested in the exotics.
Surely Ferrari has already put a deposit down on an MP4-12C under the name L. Montezemolo, F. Alonso or most likely J. Smith lol I'd imagine companies can learn alot about their rivals cars/techniques/sollutions etc by dissecting and even reverse engineering a few things too.
Having a pretty uneventful day today so sorry for the pointless thread
Surely Ferrari has already put a deposit down on an MP4-12C under the name L. Montezemolo, F. Alonso or most likely J. Smith lol I'd imagine companies can learn alot about their rivals cars/techniques/sollutions etc by dissecting and even reverse engineering a few things too.
Having a pretty uneventful day today so sorry for the pointless thread
weyland yutani said:
I've often wondered if big car manufacturers secretly buy their rivals cars, test to destruction and dissassemble to find out what makes them tick? I'm sure the likes of Honda and Toyota test their respective hatchbacks to compare ride quality, fuel economy etc but im more interested in the exotics.
Surely Ferrari has already put a deposit down on an MP4-12C under the name L. Montezemolo, F. Alonso or most likely J. Smith lol I'd imagine companies can learn alot about their rivals cars/techniques/sollutions etc by dissecting and even reverse engineering a few things too.
Having a pretty uneventful day today so sorry for the pointless thread
I remember reading in Autocar back in the 90s that the German car makers have an informal arrangement where shortly before a new car goes on sale a production model is supplied to their competitors for analysis. No idea if this still goes on today.Surely Ferrari has already put a deposit down on an MP4-12C under the name L. Montezemolo, F. Alonso or most likely J. Smith lol I'd imagine companies can learn alot about their rivals cars/techniques/sollutions etc by dissecting and even reverse engineering a few things too.
Having a pretty uneventful day today so sorry for the pointless thread
Who knows, maybe even Ferrari and McLaren have agreed to a similar arrangement? It might sound doubtful but in recent years Ferrari and McLaren have agreed to co-operate when it is in both their interests (e.g. FOTA and I know there is an agreement over GT racing).
Absolutely. When I was doing my Masters we went on a trip to Ford at Dunton, and they had a whole reverse engineering department.
Once the cars had been stripped the major components were measured, tested, and then attached to a large board with the measured data next to it which was then slotted into the world's largest filing cabinet.
At the time they had a Merc Sprinter (I think) in bits, and were boasting that they'd save a few dollars per van by copying the way that the Merc's floorpans had been pressed by reducing the number of welds.
ETA - I believe nowadays not all manufacturers do it themselves, there is a large metrology company in Europe that dismantles the cars and measures every precise detail, and then sells any bit of data that another manufacturer asks for.
Once the cars had been stripped the major components were measured, tested, and then attached to a large board with the measured data next to it which was then slotted into the world's largest filing cabinet.
At the time they had a Merc Sprinter (I think) in bits, and were boasting that they'd save a few dollars per van by copying the way that the Merc's floorpans had been pressed by reducing the number of welds.
ETA - I believe nowadays not all manufacturers do it themselves, there is a large metrology company in Europe that dismantles the cars and measures every precise detail, and then sells any bit of data that another manufacturer asks for.
Having worked for a mainstream manufacturer, I was responsible for sourcing competitor models to test.
There's a certain amount of mutual "back scratching" that goes on, e.g. you can borrow an XXX if we can have a YYY for a week.
This was in marketing though, so no disassembling, but based on this knowledge I wouldn't be surprised if they gave models out close to release...
There's a certain amount of mutual "back scratching" that goes on, e.g. you can borrow an XXX if we can have a YYY for a week.
This was in marketing though, so no disassembling, but based on this knowledge I wouldn't be surprised if they gave models out close to release...
As mentioned, Ford at Dunton have done this for years. I had my first ever ride in a Delta Intergrale and Nissan Skyline whilst on work experience. This was when they were developing the Escort Cosworth. I don't think they dismantled those, but ther certainly did with more !run of the mill' competitor cars.
The Wookie said:
Absolutely. When I was doing my Masters we went on a trip to Ford at Dunton, and they had a whole reverse engineering department.
Once the cars had been stripped the major components were measured, tested, and then attached to a large board with the measured data next to it which was then slotted into the world's largest filing cabinet.
yep, that's still there Once the cars had been stripped the major components were measured, tested, and then attached to a large board with the measured data next to it which was then slotted into the world's largest filing cabinet.
Usually get an email each month inviting us to look at the latest tear-down
When the LS400 was first launched there was an review in CAR from I think a department of one of the competition who had it stripped to component parts.
Highlighted points such as the internal seat frame was not painted. Never affected the final product perceived quality and strength but allowed Toyota to save a few pennies to deliver the finished product at less cost than their competition.
Highlighted points such as the internal seat frame was not painted. Never affected the final product perceived quality and strength but allowed Toyota to save a few pennies to deliver the finished product at less cost than their competition.
Baron Von Alders said:
yep, that's still there
Usually get an email each month inviting us to look at the latest tear-down
Cool! The only e-mails we get around here like that are to ask if anyone's got a particular vehicle that the workshop boys can rip to pieces to look at something and then more or less put it back together so we don't have to buy one Usually get an email each month inviting us to look at the latest tear-down
Land rover at Gaydon used to have an Audi A2 mounted to the wall in a relatively public corridor. (beyond normal security but not in the super secure design area) They were not shy about their reverse engineering department and said they were incredibly impressed with the new manufacturing ideas they had seen in the Audi and would incorporate them in their models.
They said the manufacturers have a deal to supply cars to each other free or little cost. It came about because they used to all do it in "secrete" but everyone knew so a few years ago they just agreed to help each other out. It is seen as a way of boasting about your design when you send the car on and if you don't supply a car the competitors think it must be crap.
They said the manufacturers have a deal to supply cars to each other free or little cost. It came about because they used to all do it in "secrete" but everyone knew so a few years ago they just agreed to help each other out. It is seen as a way of boasting about your design when you send the car on and if you don't supply a car the competitors think it must be crap.
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