Don't believe the EVO/AUTOCAR HYPE
Discussion
The big corporate magazines have told its readers for years and years that steering feel (and we who drive the cars agree) was one of the most important aspects of any performance car, and now these magazines have given up! They don't make anything of the fact that most cars now are going to electric steering, including their favorite the 911. How sad and how corporate of them not to upset their boss's.
Even though most cars are NOW getting feel-less electric steering- due to spurious claims by lazy makers and editors, that it improves fuel economy, it will not be reported that companies like Mercedes have worked on and are now implementing steering WITH FEEL- YES real hydraulic steering, that also is efficient with regard to fuel saving.
From MB/AMG...
"The AMG speed-sensitive sports steering with a direct ratio (13.5 : 1) has a redesigned power-steering pump which contributes to reduced fuel consumption. This new pump only requires energy when the driver is actually making steering movements."
Lets all not let the auto-press fold like pzzies. Tell the public yes BMW is switching to all electric steering which is much worse than previous cars, and that this sucks; and tell them to bring it back or keep it like Lotus do like Mercedes do, like Aston do, like Jaguar do. j
Even though most cars are NOW getting feel-less electric steering- due to spurious claims by lazy makers and editors, that it improves fuel economy, it will not be reported that companies like Mercedes have worked on and are now implementing steering WITH FEEL- YES real hydraulic steering, that also is efficient with regard to fuel saving.
From MB/AMG...
"The AMG speed-sensitive sports steering with a direct ratio (13.5 : 1) has a redesigned power-steering pump which contributes to reduced fuel consumption. This new pump only requires energy when the driver is actually making steering movements."
Lets all not let the auto-press fold like pzzies. Tell the public yes BMW is switching to all electric steering which is much worse than previous cars, and that this sucks; and tell them to bring it back or keep it like Lotus do like Mercedes do, like Aston do, like Jaguar do. j
AnotherClarkey said:
Go back a few years and you would read exactly the same thing about power steering vs. unassisted. Things move on.
What sort of logic do you use to make that true? How so will electric steering being a better option for most people? Again Mercedes have shown that they can make hydraulic steering energy efficient as well. thanks, jj123 said:
What sort of logic do you use to make that true? How so will electric steering being a better option for most people? Again Mercedes have shown that they can make hydraulic steering energy efficient as well. thanks, j
I didn't say there was logic in it, I just said it is what will happen. Unassisted steering is generally much better and more feelsome than power but the world moved on and barely anyone cares anymore.If you want a car with great steering feel you need it to be a light car with no power-assistance. Most people care more about other aspects of cars though. I certainly don't care much about steering feel in our daily driver. It's much more important to me in the fun car, but that's not much use for carting the family around.
j123 said:
AnotherClarkey said:
Go back a few years and you would read exactly the same thing about power steering vs. unassisted. Things move on.
What sort of logic do you use to make that true? How so will electric steering being a better option for most people? Again Mercedes have shown that they can make hydraulic steering energy efficient as well. thanks, jElectric systems have several distict advantages:
- they're much simpler than hydraulic systems with less parts and things to wear out. Yypically just a force multiplier motor directly driving the steering column/rack.
- the amount of assistance is entirely programmable so it can be tailored to exactly how you like.
- when coupled with advanced stability control systems, they can automatically perform "a dab of oppo" and can greatly assist with successfully performing evasive manouvers without loosing vehicle control.
- they will allow future generations of cruise control systems to incorporate steering function
- can save fuel
- They will only get better with time
Why are any of the above a bad things?
The steering on my 650 is for want of a better word s
t!
So much so I don't enjoy driving it, it's just a device to get from A to B.
Yes it will go round a corner quickly, but as soon as I get in it I just dont feel in control. So I just take the shortest way to where ever B is.
Such a shame as the engine wants to GO.
t! So much so I don't enjoy driving it, it's just a device to get from A to B.
Yes it will go round a corner quickly, but as soon as I get in it I just dont feel in control. So I just take the shortest way to where ever B is.
Such a shame as the engine wants to GO.
Major Fallout said:
The steering on my 650 is for want of a better word st!
So much so I don't enjoy driving it, it's just a device to get from A to B.
Yes it will go round a corner quickly, but as soon as I get in it I just dont feel in control. So I just take the shortest way to where ever B is.
Such a shame as the engine wants to GO.
Yes, even Bmw cannot do it right. Such companies should have left hydraulic steering, and if I remember in the middle of its lifetime they changed to electric in current 3-series? Could only get worse.t! So much so I don't enjoy driving it, it's just a device to get from A to B.
Yes it will go round a corner quickly, but as soon as I get in it I just dont feel in control. So I just take the shortest way to where ever B is.
Such a shame as the engine wants to GO.
hotmelt said:
Yes, even Bmw cannot do it right. Such companies should have left hydraulic steering, and if I remember in the middle of its lifetime they changed to electric in current 3-series? Could only get worse.
Even they know electric stuff isn't good for driving, as the ///M division like to rip it out and put hydraulics in.j123 said:
This new pump only requires energy when the driver is actually making steering movements.
MB are pimping this like it's new and exciting.Vauxhall had the same system since 1998 in the Mk4 Astra, and every model since. Ford use it in the Mk2 Focus (depending on model) and the Mk4 Mondeo. I'm sure there's lots of others that have left hydraulic PAS long behind, too.
Rarefied Brains said:
Give the tech a break, it's obviously still in its infancy.
On the one hand, this is true.On the other, they should get the tech right before fostering it onto the public. They have test/development drivers, it's not the sort of thing they only "realise" when people complain about it (unless they have really rubbish test/dev drivers of course
)Scuffers said:
and what's so wrong with electric PS?
yes, there are some bad ones, but there are also some really good ones, in fact, much the same as old hydraulic PS.
(oh, and PS, elec PS saves significantly on CO2 in the std Euro drive test)
Wife's Mini has an early generation electric assistance system that is actually pretty good, though a little light for my liking. I did an extended test drive on a Megane a few years ago - the electric system in that was utterly shocking for its lack of feel, artificial centering and overall crapness.yes, there are some bad ones, but there are also some really good ones, in fact, much the same as old hydraulic PS.
(oh, and PS, elec PS saves significantly on CO2 in the std Euro drive test)
Long may manufacturers have access to technologies that allow them to build cars how they want. Some will want hydraulic systems, some will want electric, some even want no assistance at all. Long may it continue. And yes, manufacturers will lax lyrical about the benefits of their technology - its call marketing!
In the case of Evo and Autocar, they are somewhat at a loss to actually test a lot of this anyway. Do we expect our car magazines to subject each and every car (and revision) to lab quality tests for reported gains of 5% on fuel saving? Or do we take a lot of this as read and move on to the actual driving.....?
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