VW Passat rear lights really mess with my eyes. Anyone else?
Discussion
aw51 121565 said:
It's when you move your eyes - when you look elsewhere?
Guess you're not the only one
- I think it's LED rear lights per se that have this effect...
It's all the time. Can be cruising down the motorway, pass fifty cars, and as I approach the fifty first from some distance back I see the lights flickering and I know it's a Passat.Guess you're not the only one
- I think it's LED rear lights per se that have this effect...I'm sure it's to do with the LED lights, but there must be more to it than that, lots of cars have them now, only Passats mess with my eyes.
Yes, it's PWM. Goodness knows why they are bothering to use a complex and expensive PWM unit instead of a simple cheap resistor, it's not like there's any need to economise on the power consumption.
I've seen the same thing at a light-controlled T-junction where the lights on the leg of the T have a pelican crossing on them and the button box is mounted where you can see the lights on it from the driver's seat. The red man on the button box is illuminated with PWM-driven LEDs. When I move my eyes to check to the side the thing leaves a trail of ghost images all the way from in front round to the side and it's really disconcerting.
I've seen the same thing at a light-controlled T-junction where the lights on the leg of the T have a pelican crossing on them and the button box is mounted where you can see the lights on it from the driver's seat. The red man on the button box is illuminated with PWM-driven LEDs. When I move my eyes to check to the side the thing leaves a trail of ghost images all the way from in front round to the side and it's really disconcerting.
hora said:
I noticed this on a newshape astra- I assumed there was a fault (prob is)
I saw this too on a newshape Astra, and just like you I thought the car had dodgy electrics.I also think the rear light setup on the Mk5 Golf is terrible too, particularly when you have falling rain or fog. More than once I have been following one and thinking "Is he indicating? Is that light flashing? Are my eyes deceiving me?". The small indicator is just totally obscured by the ring of light around it.
.There is a set of traffic lights in Norwich which were installed a few years ago (presumably as a pilot) with led RAG - they do the same thing as the vw rear light and mess with your eyes - I presume feedback wasn't good and I haven't seen another set anywhere else although they are still there
Ari said:
If I'm on a motorway at night VW Passat rear lights in front strobe randomly.
I can actually spot a Passat from about 50 car lengths back, way before there's any chance of recognising it any other way because the rear lights flicker and dance.
Is it just me..?
If you have a camera trained on them they flash just like police lights on the video [/randomfact]I can actually spot a Passat from about 50 car lengths back, way before there's any chance of recognising it any other way because the rear lights flicker and dance.
Is it just me..?
HellDiver said:
Those saying about the new Astra - it is a fault on those, and totally different issue to what the OP is talking about.
The OP is talking about a slight strobing effect, similar to the effect you get off a CRT TV if you waggle your fingers between the screen and your eyes.
How many people do you think are now sat at their computer waving their fingers frantically at it The OP is talking about a slight strobing effect, similar to the effect you get off a CRT TV if you waggle your fingers between the screen and your eyes.
Yes its down to PWM control of the LEDs.
They don't use a resistor because an LED wouldn't dim in the the same way as filament.
You notice it more out of the corner of your eye rather than middle of vision because we have evolved to notice things "appearing" and motion (predators sneaking up) in our peripheral vision more. Well.. I believe we have evolved, others think this behaviour was designed - feel free to make you own mind up.
Reason - rods!:
How the LED lights got type approved, I don't know because they are sometimes distracting.
They don't use a resistor because an LED wouldn't dim in the the same way as filament.
You notice it more out of the corner of your eye rather than middle of vision because we have evolved to notice things "appearing" and motion (predators sneaking up) in our peripheral vision more. Well.. I believe we have evolved, others think this behaviour was designed - feel free to make you own mind up.
Reason - rods!:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/rodcone.html said:
The retina contains two types of photoreceptors, rods and cones. The rods are more numerous, some 120 million, and are more sensitive than the cones. However, they are not sensitive to color. The 6 to 7 million cones provide the eye's color sensitivity and they are much more concentrated in the central yellow spot known as the macula.
............
Measured density curves for the rods and cones on the retina show an enormous density of cones in the fovea centralis. To them is attributed both color vision and the highest visual acuity. Visual examination of small detail involves focusing light from that detail onto the fovea centralis. On the other hand, the rods are absent from the fovea. At a few degrees away from it their density rises to a high value and spreads over a large area of the retina. These rods are responsible for night vision, our most sensitive motion detection, and our peripheral vision.
SO there's more rods in the eye (do motion detection) than cones (detail & colour) & cones have greater desnity in the centre for forward vision. Hence peripheral vision is done by all those motion sensitive rods, which are fast enough to pick up the flickering of the LEDs.............
Measured density curves for the rods and cones on the retina show an enormous density of cones in the fovea centralis. To them is attributed both color vision and the highest visual acuity. Visual examination of small detail involves focusing light from that detail onto the fovea centralis. On the other hand, the rods are absent from the fovea. At a few degrees away from it their density rises to a high value and spreads over a large area of the retina. These rods are responsible for night vision, our most sensitive motion detection, and our peripheral vision.
How the LED lights got type approved, I don't know because they are sometimes distracting.
Edited by was8v on Friday 4th February 09:55
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