Gearboxes and clutches on high mileage cars
Discussion
I am considering buying a MKII Golf GTI, most of which have some pretty serious miles on them, upwards of 150,000 in most cases. This morning, I had a chance to sit in a friends MK3 Golf GTI and have a poke around, get a feel for the line, as I've never sat in the driver seat of a VW before. What struck me on his car, with 120,000 miles on it, was that clutch felt like it was attached to a pulley with a lead weight on the end. The gearbox was terrible, you needed to be He-man to change gear and the thing would absolutely not be rushed at all, we are talking upwars of 2 seconds to change a gear, which is old skool auto territory speed! The car I sat in today, despite being a newer Mark3, is not a "cared for" example, so could well be on a gear box and clutch combo that has done 120,000 miles without refreshment.
Now what I'm thinking is, this would spoil a good driving experience every time I got in the car. I'm wondering, since VW are famed for their "Bolt action gear changes" that are supposed to be gloriously satisfying, is my friend's car a duffer, or just a good example of an old fashioned Golf? I know the MK2s I'm looking at are knocking on, or over, 20 years old and they are old fashioned cars now, would one of them feel the same if it had an old clutch and gear box? Would a recently refreshed example feel a world better?
A lot of the good examples of MK2s are a quite a drive away from me. I don't want to drive 150 miles to look at what appears to be a great example only to find it has a gearbox that feels like opening a portcullis and a clutch that has to be pressed in so hard, it feels like your foot will go through the bulkhead, because I'd end up with a wasted day and a petrol bill to show for it!
Now what I'm thinking is, this would spoil a good driving experience every time I got in the car. I'm wondering, since VW are famed for their "Bolt action gear changes" that are supposed to be gloriously satisfying, is my friend's car a duffer, or just a good example of an old fashioned Golf? I know the MK2s I'm looking at are knocking on, or over, 20 years old and they are old fashioned cars now, would one of them feel the same if it had an old clutch and gear box? Would a recently refreshed example feel a world better?
A lot of the good examples of MK2s are a quite a drive away from me. I don't want to drive 150 miles to look at what appears to be a great example only to find it has a gearbox that feels like opening a portcullis and a clutch that has to be pressed in so hard, it feels like your foot will go through the bulkhead, because I'd end up with a wasted day and a petrol bill to show for it!
The mk3 gearbox will be an 02A 'box which has a cable linkage rather than the rod linkage on the 020 you get in a mk2. The cable change isn't as nice as the rod, but the 020 gearbox is not a strong component. That said, mine had a refurbished 'box at 50000 miles and is now on 193000.
Any wear on the bushes in the linkage will make the rod linkage feel imprecise and slow, but a new set of bushes will only cost ~£12 and is simple to do if you're happy to get your spanners out.
I've now got a set of adjustable rods with ball joints in my linkage which feels brilliant and eliminates the need of a couple of the bushes (there are about 8 between the gear stick and the gearbox).
Any wear on the bushes in the linkage will make the rod linkage feel imprecise and slow, but a new set of bushes will only cost ~£12 and is simple to do if you're happy to get your spanners out.
I've now got a set of adjustable rods with ball joints in my linkage which feels brilliant and eliminates the need of a couple of the bushes (there are about 8 between the gear stick and the gearbox).
Edited by Dubious Spoon on Tuesday 1st February 17:31
[quote=Dubious Spoon]The mk3 gearbox will be an 02A 'box which has a cable linkage rather than the rod linkage on the 020 you get in a mk2.[quote]
Only the VR6 (and possibly some 16v) had the O2A boxes, the rest are O2O on the Mk3's.
The gearbox sounds knackered to me. My Mk3 gti has a very quick and responsive shift and is approaching 100k. Clutch is solid too. Really does sound like you have been sat in a ropey one, dont let it put you off.
Only the VR6 (and possibly some 16v) had the O2A boxes, the rest are O2O on the Mk3's.
The gearbox sounds knackered to me. My Mk3 gti has a very quick and responsive shift and is approaching 100k. Clutch is solid too. Really does sound like you have been sat in a ropey one, dont let it put you off.
It's been 7 years since I traded my 8v Golf Gti in (and I rue that day, still miss it now 
).
I owned it from 70k up to 110k miles, and did my own repairs/servicing. They are simple to work on by the way. Anyway, the engine, clutch and gearbox were still going strong and still felt and performed as if it had covered way less mileage than that.
Ok, I'm not one for rushing through gears and prefer to ease the lever into every gear. The box on that Golf was absolutely perfect and had many, many more miles left in it. So no, I wouldn't worry about it to much on the whole....
ETA: Oops, missed the most relevent part! It was a mkII.
).I owned it from 70k up to 110k miles, and did my own repairs/servicing. They are simple to work on by the way. Anyway, the engine, clutch and gearbox were still going strong and still felt and performed as if it had covered way less mileage than that.
Ok, I'm not one for rushing through gears and prefer to ease the lever into every gear. The box on that Golf was absolutely perfect and had many, many more miles left in it. So no, I wouldn't worry about it to much on the whole....
ETA: Oops, missed the most relevent part! It was a mkII.
Edited by Baz Tench on Tuesday 1st February 17:57
Baz Tench said:
Just to add, why not stick to the classifieds on enthusiast sites? You're almost guaranteed to find one that's been very well looked after, and will be worth the trip to view.
This is what I'm planning to do, I want an enthusiant's car, not something that has been ragged around supermarket car parks it's whole life. My concern was, having not sat in the driving seat of anything as old as the car I'm planning to buy, I may simply be to used to more modern gear shifts and expecting too much. Thank god, the car I sat in today sounds to have been a duffer.I'm going into this with open eyes and trying to learn as much as I can. "Old car grumbles" like rattly interiors, frosting over inside etc may annoy but not deter me, it's nothing I have not lived with before on newer cars!
Baz Tench said:
Just to add, why not stick to the classifieds on enthusiast sites? You're almost guaranteed to find one that's been very well looked after, and will be worth the trip to view.
This is what I'm planning to do, I want an enthusiant's car, not something that has been ragged around supermarket car parks it's whole life. My concern was, having not sat in the driving seat of anything as old as the car I'm planning to buy, I may simply be to used to more modern gear shifts and expecting too much. Thank god, the car I sat in today sounds to have been a duffer.I'm going into this with open eyes and trying to learn as much as I can. "Old car grumbles" like rattly interiors, frosting over inside etc may annoy but not deter me, it's nothing I have not lived with before on newer cars!
Ok, I mis-understood slightly.
The gearbox on a good MkII should have a lovely smooth but feelsome shift. I can't remember too much about the clutch feel, but I'd imagine it will be slightly heavier than modern set-ups.
They are lovely cars though and you'll know when a good one comes along. One passed me yesterday actually. The driver was on the over-run as he slowed while approaching a junction. I've always loved that deep sounding 4 pot.
The gearbox on a good MkII should have a lovely smooth but feelsome shift. I can't remember too much about the clutch feel, but I'd imagine it will be slightly heavier than modern set-ups.
They are lovely cars though and you'll know when a good one comes along. One passed me yesterday actually. The driver was on the over-run as he slowed while approaching a junction. I've always loved that deep sounding 4 pot.
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