Are all cheap car dealers rip-offs?
Discussion
I recently needed to find a small car for my son as his first car, and he was pretty specific about what he wanted, and I couldn't find a private sale anywhere, so I decided to try a user car dealer.
Now, I have always thought of such dealers as rip-offs, and have never considered buying a car from such a place, but as we couldn't find a private car, I decided to visit a cheap (£1000) used car dealer in Portsmouth.
The car was advertised in Auto Trader, with years tax, MOT and full service history, and it looked fine and seemed tidy enough so we bought it. Four days after taking delivery, the clutch failed, much to my son's disappointment.
Luckily, the dealer honoured the advertised 30 day warranty and replaced the clutch, but the following day my son called me complaining that the car wouldn't start, the battery was dead, and that "hair" was coming out of the exhaust. Also, the radio was asking for a keycode. He managed to get the car jump-started and drove it for 30 minutes on my advice, to get some power in the battery, but it again failed the next time he tried to start it.
So, now we are arranging for a new battery, and I am assuming we will also need a new exhaust back-box, as I imagine the "hair" from the exhaust is glass fibre silencing material.
I wasn't present when my son collected the car originally, and I am now finding out, when getting him to check through the paperwork that came with the car to get the radio keycode, that there is nothing, no service history whatsoever.
So, are these just teething problems, and the car will be okay in the end, or are these dealers just complete rip-offs, and always sell you a dud car?
I would be most interested in opinions on all this.
Cheers,
Steve
Now, I have always thought of such dealers as rip-offs, and have never considered buying a car from such a place, but as we couldn't find a private car, I decided to visit a cheap (£1000) used car dealer in Portsmouth.
The car was advertised in Auto Trader, with years tax, MOT and full service history, and it looked fine and seemed tidy enough so we bought it. Four days after taking delivery, the clutch failed, much to my son's disappointment.
Luckily, the dealer honoured the advertised 30 day warranty and replaced the clutch, but the following day my son called me complaining that the car wouldn't start, the battery was dead, and that "hair" was coming out of the exhaust. Also, the radio was asking for a keycode. He managed to get the car jump-started and drove it for 30 minutes on my advice, to get some power in the battery, but it again failed the next time he tried to start it.
So, now we are arranging for a new battery, and I am assuming we will also need a new exhaust back-box, as I imagine the "hair" from the exhaust is glass fibre silencing material.
I wasn't present when my son collected the car originally, and I am now finding out, when getting him to check through the paperwork that came with the car to get the radio keycode, that there is nothing, no service history whatsoever.
So, are these just teething problems, and the car will be okay in the end, or are these dealers just complete rip-offs, and always sell you a dud car?
I would be most interested in opinions on all this.
Cheers,
Steve
I think this is just a general issue with cheap cars, especially ones which have just been p/ex'd. WOuld you put a new battery & exhaust on a car worth a few hundred pounds which you were due to get rid of?
Another point is that if you run £1000 bangers and all is well then you'll probably hang onto it?
Another point is that if you run £1000 bangers and all is well then you'll probably hang onto it?
In your very own words it was "cheap". Small cheap cars are in high demand and you've already admitted you had trouble finding one.
Unfortunately people are very out of touch with cheap cars - anything small with an MOT is worth £500 in the trade. The days of picking up something with MOT and tax for £300 which isn't a 5 litre V8 are long, long gone.
Frankly, at the price of the car you were lucky to get the clutch done, most dealers wouldn't and wouldn't have been obliged to.
A duff battery and dodgy exhaust is just one of those things with £1k cars. To be brutally frank, if you wanted better, you needed to pay more.
Unfortunately people are very out of touch with cheap cars - anything small with an MOT is worth £500 in the trade. The days of picking up something with MOT and tax for £300 which isn't a 5 litre V8 are long, long gone.
Frankly, at the price of the car you were lucky to get the clutch done, most dealers wouldn't and wouldn't have been obliged to.
A duff battery and dodgy exhaust is just one of those things with £1k cars. To be brutally frank, if you wanted better, you needed to pay more.
To be fair, if the clutch was fine before he bought it, and there was no evidence of the silencer falling apart, then how could the dealer have known?
I think you've done well to get the clutch replaced (dealer could have argued that your son spent the last 4 days doing traffic light grand prix), and a silencer should cost less than £100.
I think when buying a car at that price, you've got to be careful. There's some great bargains to be had, but plenty of money pits at the same time.
As for service history and keycode, you really should check before you buy.
I think you've done well to get the clutch replaced (dealer could have argued that your son spent the last 4 days doing traffic light grand prix), and a silencer should cost less than £100.
I think when buying a car at that price, you've got to be careful. There's some great bargains to be had, but plenty of money pits at the same time.
As for service history and keycode, you really should check before you buy.
[quote=smartie]... snip ... WOuld you put a new battery & exhaust on a car worth a few hundred pounds which you were due to get rid of?
quote]
This is something I thought too, the answer is no. So, I guess you should expect that you might need to get consumable type items like tyres, exhaust, battery..
quote]
This is something I thought too, the answer is no. So, I guess you should expect that you might need to get consumable type items like tyres, exhaust, battery..
mnkiboy said:
To be fair, if the clutch was fine before he bought it, and there was no evidence of the silencer falling apart, then how could the dealer have known?
I think you've done well to get the clutch replaced (dealer could have argued that your son spent the last 4 days doing traffic light grand prix), and a silencer should cost less than £100.
I think when buying a car at that price, you've got to be careful. There's some great bargains to be had, but plenty of money pits at the same time.
As for service history and keycode, you really should check before you buy.
Yes, the clutch and also the exhaust both seemed fine when the car was picked up, my thought was whether the dealer had somehow managed to mask these problems, but in reality this seems unlikely, especially as they replaced the clutch under warranty. I appreciate this was good service, so perhaps I am being overly harsh to suspect a rip-off..?I think you've done well to get the clutch replaced (dealer could have argued that your son spent the last 4 days doing traffic light grand prix), and a silencer should cost less than £100.
I think when buying a car at that price, you've got to be careful. There's some great bargains to be had, but plenty of money pits at the same time.
As for service history and keycode, you really should check before you buy.
There are few true "bargains" to be had amongst smaller cars in that price range because demand is very high. Amongst larger, more expensive to insure models then yes, but there are loads of drivers looking for something cheap to buy, run and insure.
On the face of it, to get something which can be made vaguely decent in that price range and a new clutch to boot you appear to have done rather well and far from being ripped off. The dealer is most probably already in loss (margins on these cars are tiny), had you bought privately then the clutch would have been completely down to you.
On the face of it, to get something which can be made vaguely decent in that price range and a new clutch to boot you appear to have done rather well and far from being ripped off. The dealer is most probably already in loss (margins on these cars are tiny), had you bought privately then the clutch would have been completely down to you.
We get asked almost daily for small cars under £1000 with MOT and tax....I dont sell them, for two reasons...A They are very hard to buy at the right price to enable a profit. B. They are often bought by people who are very short of money, thus they are back constantly expecting small faults to be rectified months down the line.
Old trade saying "there is money in Sh*t if you can stnd the smell"
(not too sure about the money bit)
t out of luck if they need the radio code as I found it in an old wallet a few weeks back, the car manual and radio codes get taken out of the car at some point and they don't make it back. If you didn't notice anything funny about the clutch or the exhaust blowing/rattling when you test drove it (I'm assuming you did test drive it?) then the dealer probably wouldn't have known either, if he hasn't had it long he may hardly have driven it. The battery is probably just bad luck if the car has been stood at the dealer/prev owners house, especially through the winter. Guess if you think of it as a £1140 car (inc battery/exhaust) then it probably still isn't such a bad deal?
The lack of FSH is naughty though and something you're entitled to follow up (might be sat in the dealers drawer) - the fact it doesn't exist means you didn't even think to ask to see the FSH before you bought the car? Schoolboy error, especially on an older banger - the history book tends to go astray for bad reasons, covering up the fact it hasnt had a service in years or has been clocked. Have you checked the MOT history of the car?
On the wider subject, it's very hit and miss with used car dealers, some are absolute crooks who would happily sell a deathtrap and deny anything was wrong with it. Others pride themselves on selling only clean, honest cars which gains them customers for the future and a good reputation. Sadly its bloody difficult to tell between the two on first inspection, although when the dealer is blatantly telling fibs, has an array of crap on the forecourt or his office looks like the cab of a builders transit - all are pointers to walk away IMO.
The lack of FSH is naughty though and something you're entitled to follow up (might be sat in the dealers drawer) - the fact it doesn't exist means you didn't even think to ask to see the FSH before you bought the car? Schoolboy error, especially on an older banger - the history book tends to go astray for bad reasons, covering up the fact it hasnt had a service in years or has been clocked. Have you checked the MOT history of the car?
On the wider subject, it's very hit and miss with used car dealers, some are absolute crooks who would happily sell a deathtrap and deny anything was wrong with it. Others pride themselves on selling only clean, honest cars which gains them customers for the future and a good reputation. Sadly its bloody difficult to tell between the two on first inspection, although when the dealer is blatantly telling fibs, has an array of crap on the forecourt or his office looks like the cab of a builders transit - all are pointers to walk away IMO.
POORCARDEALER said:
We get asked almost daily for small cars under £1000 with MOT and tax....I dont sell them, for two reasons...A They are very hard to buy at the right price to enable a profit. B. They are often bought by people who are very short of money, thus they are back constantly expecting small faults to be rectified months down the line.
Old trade saying "there is money in Sh*t if you can stnd the smell"
(not too sure about the money bit)
Quite agree. My worst nightmare customer was one who bought a £1000 cheap px I'd had in (a Fabia) which I knocked out at virtually no profit to clear (I knew it was a mistake when I handed them the keys). They had it six months, didn't miss a beat and did 10,000 miles. I then got a phone call from them screaming blue murder that it had passed an MOT with an advisory on a split CV gator and if I didn't do something they'd sue, trading standards etc.Old trade saying "there is money in Sh*t if you can stnd the smell"
(not too sure about the money bit)
Completely and utterly bonkers. I then said, well if you don't like it, bring it back for a refund (used values had gone up). They then bareface said "no, because we'll never find one as good at that price".
Around a grand is completely rock bottom banger lucky if it doesn't kill you on the first corner range for small MOT'd cars. If you get anything which vaguely works at that price you have done very, very well.
duckson said:
Are you sure the car you (or your son) actually picked up is the same car the dealer showed you when you visited and placed a deposit?
I have to be honest, I have yet to see the car again after checking it over on the forecourt, as I do not live with my son and haven't had the opportunity to go and see him since he took delivery of the car. He has insured the car based on the number plate that was on the car I saw, so I hope it is the same one! I am planning to visit him this weekend, so I can check then.Sounds like your son has been banging it off the rev limiter!
Thats exactly what happens to exhausts when you rev limit them for any length of time & as for the clutch.... are the tyres looking a bit lower than you bought them a few days ago
Tell you what post up an image of the front tyres for all to be revealed
Thats exactly what happens to exhausts when you rev limit them for any length of time & as for the clutch.... are the tyres looking a bit lower than you bought them a few days ago
Tell you what post up an image of the front tyres for all to be revealed
geeteeaye said:
If you didn't notice anything funny about the clutch or the exhaust blowing/rattling when you test drove it (I'm assuming you did test drive it?) then the dealer probably wouldn't have known either, if he hasn't had it long he may hardly have driven it. The battery is probably just bad luck if the car has been stood at the dealer/prev owners house, especially through the winter. Guess if you think of it as a £1140 car (inc battery/exhaust) then it probably still isn't such a bad deal?
The car appeared fine on the test drive, by my son just prior to accepting delivery. I regret not being with him to collect the car, I had planned to, but circumstances meant I could not be there.geeteeaye said:
The lack of FSH is naughty though and something you're entitled to follow up (might be sat in the dealers drawer) - the fact it doesn't exist means you didn't even think to ask to see the FSH before you bought the car? Schoolboy error, especially on an older banger - the history book tends to go astray for bad reasons, covering up the fact it hasnt had a service in years or has been clocked. Have you checked the MOT history of the car?
Again, I regret not being with my son when he collected the car. I told him to get the service history, and hence my surprise to discover he does not have it. When I checked the car, the registration document showed that it had only had a single owner from new, and I saw several MOT certificates, which all looked fine and the mileages correspond to the current mileage (approx 90k). With all the other hassle, I have not spoken to the dealer regarding the service history, so it could be that it is in a drawer somewhere. The little documentation I did see seemed to point to the car being genuine, though the salesman did say the rest of the service history was "tucked away somewhere, but would be there when we collect the car". I took him at his word.geeteeaye said:
On the wider subject, it's very hit and miss with used car dealers, some are absolute crooks who would happily sell a deathtrap and deny anything was wrong with it. Others pride themselves on selling only clean, honest cars which gains them customers for the future and a good reputation. Sadly its bloody difficult to tell between the two on first inspection, although when the dealer is blatantly telling fibs, has an array of crap on the forecourt or his office looks like the cab of a builders transit - all are pointers to walk away IMO.
It is good to hear that there are some good dealers out there, so perhaps we have just been slightly unlucky, and things will smooth themselves out once there problems are sorted.Thanks to everyone for commenting on this thread. It is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Steve
POORCARDEALER said:
We get asked almost daily for small cars under £1000 with MOT and tax....I dont sell them, for two reasons...A They are very hard to buy at the right price to enable a profit. B. They are often bought by people who are very short of money, thus they are back constantly expecting small faults to be rectified months down the line.
^^^^^^^^ This.Realistically there is no viable market at that price point.
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