Making your own Bio Diesel
Discussion
Does anybody on here do it ? What are the approximate total costs per litre.
What equipment do you use ?
How easy is it ?
Was looking at something like this...
http://www.onestopbioshop.co.uk/biodiesel-processo...
Have a look at the forums at www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk everything you need to know is there.
Commmercial processors tend to be a bit crap, often expensive, dangerous or just poorly designed.
There are huge problems getting used veg oil now - it's all been baggsied long ago and the paperwork is a b
h. There are big players in operation as well who have areas well sewn up.
You will have to pay for the waste oil, the caustic, methanol and the equipment (quite a lot). Its good fun for backyard bucket chemistry, with the chance of explosion, fire, madness, blindness and death but as a money saving technique it will probably fail to deliver. Its also exceedinly dirty, sticky and smelly, takes up a lot of space and is genuinely tricky to master, with production of anything worthy of being a motor fuel being far from simple.
Commmercial processors tend to be a bit crap, often expensive, dangerous or just poorly designed.
There are huge problems getting used veg oil now - it's all been baggsied long ago and the paperwork is a b
h. There are big players in operation as well who have areas well sewn up. You will have to pay for the waste oil, the caustic, methanol and the equipment (quite a lot). Its good fun for backyard bucket chemistry, with the chance of explosion, fire, madness, blindness and death but as a money saving technique it will probably fail to deliver. Its also exceedinly dirty, sticky and smelly, takes up a lot of space and is genuinely tricky to master, with production of anything worthy of being a motor fuel being far from simple.
As above really....99% of all the Restaurants / Chippies etc, etc.....now realise the worth in waste oil and charge the earth for it. Most of the big players have tied anyone with significant supply into contracts for years.
If you can get your hands on regular quality supply, then go for it, if not, I would suggest these days it is just a pain in the asre.
If you can get your hands on regular quality supply, then go for it, if not, I would suggest these days it is just a pain in the asre.
I thought as much scdan4, but just looking at ways of saving a few pennies here and there, and paying a little less tax to the thieving scum !!!
I see new veggie oil is £1 a litre anyway, and using used oil would make a messy process even messier.
Oh well, back to the drawing board. !
I see new veggie oil is £1 a litre anyway, and using used oil would make a messy process even messier.
Oh well, back to the drawing board. !
Looked into this a few years ago and agree with everything above.
Plus you are left with LARGE QUANTITY of byproducts (worse are from filtering the waste oil) that are PIA to dispose as cann't go to council tip so you have to pay at private site.
My advise is run on fresh veg oil from supermarkets / cash-n-carry mixed with dino diesel - lot less hassle in long run.
BTW council don't like you processing bio diesel on domestic premises so don't ever contact them about it nor let nosey neighbours see what you are doing if there is any chance they might report you.
Paul H
Plus you are left with LARGE QUANTITY of byproducts (worse are from filtering the waste oil) that are PIA to dispose as cann't go to council tip so you have to pay at private site.
My advise is run on fresh veg oil from supermarkets / cash-n-carry mixed with dino diesel - lot less hassle in long run.
BTW council don't like you processing bio diesel on domestic premises so don't ever contact them about it nor let nosey neighbours see what you are doing if there is any chance they might report you.
Paul H
I know someone who does it.
They don't have any trouble getting free used oil and the paperwork isn't that much of a pain.
However, it is very messy and time consuming. They also use a fair bit of electricity and expensive chemicals in the process. Pumps don't seem to last long either as ones designed to be chemically resistant are very expensive.
If you can weld (lots of plumbing and barrel shaping, as ideally you want a cone on the end) and have the time and space its probably just about worth it.
Bosch fuel pump models of Peugeots (guess als Citroen) have a good reputation for being happy on bio.
They don't have any trouble getting free used oil and the paperwork isn't that much of a pain.
However, it is very messy and time consuming. They also use a fair bit of electricity and expensive chemicals in the process. Pumps don't seem to last long either as ones designed to be chemically resistant are very expensive.
If you can weld (lots of plumbing and barrel shaping, as ideally you want a cone on the end) and have the time and space its probably just about worth it.
Bosch fuel pump models of Peugeots (guess als Citroen) have a good reputation for being happy on bio.
Engineer1 said:
Does anyone know a definitive list of vehicles/ engines that are ok with Biodiesel/ SVO? I own a diesel PT Cruiser and have yet to find an answer either way, the engine is a Merc 2.2 diesel if that helps anyone.
Use the vegoildiesel website above, it really is very good.DO NOT use straight veggie oil in anything that is direct injection (normally means post 2000). It WILL screw it up. (ring gumming)
DO NOT use svo in anything with a lucas CAV style injection pump. It WILL screw it up. (sheared inj pump)
DO NOT use white spirit or additives that claim to thin veg, (or even perform a 1-stage conversion to bio-diesel), they will NOT work (snake oil), and will possibly land an angry HMRC on/in your ass.
Remember that veg oil is sold vat free as a food product. As soon as you pour it into your tank angry HMRC guy will be expecting his VAT...
Indirect bosch pumped diesels will cope ok, but with current prices of SVO will mean that any small savings are more than swallowed up by the cost of replacing a few fuel filters as the veg oil cleans the dino gunk from the tank and lines. Veg oil is heavy and viscous in comparison to lovely runny dino diesel; leaks will spring, seals and lift pumps will fail, filters will block and engines will suffer fuel starvation. Preheating the fuel is the answer but a whole new can of worms.
Usual candidates for veg oiling are early PD vags, peugeot 405/406 pre hdi, s
troen zx's, merc W124's etc. If you can get a shed then it may well be worth pouring some veg in, but don't expect it to be problem free.melhookv12 said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Use straight veg oil. £1.06 in Lidl, in boxes of 12 handy 1 litre bottles.
I'm sure that price can be bettered.
Straight Veg oil in a modern( ish ) diesel engine. i.e Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDDi, or maybe mixe it 50/50....25/75 ??I'm sure that price can be bettered.
Older, simpler, tougher engines only, I believe.
No tdci, cdi, tddi, cdti, or other sexy modern kit.
scdan4 said:
Remember that veg oil is sold vat free as a food product. As soon as you pour it into your tank angry HMRC guy will be expecting his VAT...
Although I havent got a deisel, I've often thought surely if you get caught using veg oil and havent paid tax on it, isnt it the same as getting caught using red deisel? Maybe its a lot easier to get caught using red deisel?
Not that I'm saying I would ever do this but theoretically instead of faffing about with veg oil, wouldnt it be easier to put another tank in the boot to use with red deisel?
I watched in awe a couple of months ago as a guy in a dirty beige coloured van (possibly a Fiat?) poured two 20 litre containers of vege oil into his tank outside my local Costco (he'd just loaded the rest of the pallet into the back...).
The reek that came out of the thing when he started it...
The reek that came out of the thing when he started it...
grimfandango said:
Although I havent got a deisel, I've often thought surely if you get caught using veg oil and havent paid tax on it, isnt it the same as getting caught using red deisel?
Maybe its a lot easier to get caught using red deisel?
Not that I'm saying I would ever do this but theoretically instead of faffing about with veg oil, wouldnt it be easier to put another tank in the boot to use with red deisel?
you are allowed 2500 ltrs of bio before duty need ne payed Maybe its a lot easier to get caught using red deisel?
Not that I'm saying I would ever do this but theoretically instead of faffing about with veg oil, wouldnt it be easier to put another tank in the boot to use with red deisel?
you have to keep receipts to prove how much you have used if requested to do so by an official, so just throw away the oldest receipts
Fuel duty exemption (2500 ltrs/yr) is different from vat. Basic food products are zero vat rated, fuels and fuel additives are not.
If you buy any product to use unmodified as fuel, it is due vat. If you buy svo from lidl, then legally you have to pay vat on it to hmrc before you pour it into your tank. If you buy and use more then 2500 litres of it in a year then you will have to pay vat and fuel duty on it before you pour it into your tank.
2500 litres of fuel does get you a very long way and is used to differentiate between commercial and domestic users.
hth
If you buy any product to use unmodified as fuel, it is due vat. If you buy svo from lidl, then legally you have to pay vat on it to hmrc before you pour it into your tank. If you buy and use more then 2500 litres of it in a year then you will have to pay vat and fuel duty on it before you pour it into your tank.
2500 litres of fuel does get you a very long way and is used to differentiate between commercial and domestic users.
hth
Toffer said:
Why? 
Why? What?Food product (non vat) versus Fuel product (vatable) I guess. All was vatable and dutyable until gordan introduced the 2500 limit. Not sure at what level the vat is applied either as I always used processed old stuff.
Not really sure - but thats definately as I understand it and another reason to use old cooking oil rather than new supermarket stuff.
hth (?)
scdan4 said:
Fuel duty exemption (2500 ltrs/yr) is different from vat. Basic food products are zero vat rated, fuels and fuel additives are not.
If you buy any product to use unmodified as fuel, it is due vat. If you buy svo from lidl, then legally you have to pay vat on it to hmrc before you pour it into your tank. If you buy and use more then 2500 litres of it in a year then you will have to pay vat and fuel duty on it before you pour it into your tank.
2500 litres of fuel does get you a very long way and is used to differentiate between commercial and domestic users.
hth
Please check this, I think you're mistaken. If you're an 'exempt producer' (as normal gen public would be) your only obligation is to keep simple records to demonstrate that your consumption is under 2500 litres a year.If you buy any product to use unmodified as fuel, it is due vat. If you buy svo from lidl, then legally you have to pay vat on it to hmrc before you pour it into your tank. If you buy and use more then 2500 litres of it in a year then you will have to pay vat and fuel duty on it before you pour it into your tank.
2500 litres of fuel does get you a very long way and is used to differentiate between commercial and domestic users.
hth
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/ch...
Guy in work has a W124 diesel running on veg oil. Believe he aquired a large amount a while ago and has storage for it. The car has a full fuel pre heat system and he's run it with various types of filter to get it perfect.
Now runs on veg oil all year round and saves a fortune on his commute.
Now runs on veg oil all year round and saves a fortune on his commute.
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