Why no love for the Europa?
Discussion
Moving on from the "Are Lotus still selling cars" thread. It got me wondering why there seems so little love, and even so much hate for the Europa S? 
As so few people claim to have actually seen one I logically assume very view people have driven or owned one. Or at least far less than those that seem to not like it.
To me this means 99% of people who talk about them evidently know nothing about them.
So to further investigate and read up I did some Googling, seems there are very few reviews for it and what I did read seemed at odds IMO. No love again and largely repetition, as in each review seems to be an almost carbon copy of the others, as if each journalist decided to write about someone else's views rather than review the car.
I will admit I too haven't driven or even sat in a Europa S. But this is at least my take on it.
It looks flippin great!!
Not as cheeky as an S1 Elise, not as edgy and fussy as an S2 Elise and not as angular as a VX220. But I like it, I think it looks like a more expensive car, more sleek and sophisticated. And having seen a couple in the flesh they look even better in person.
At any rate, nobody in their right mind could call it ugly.
As for the interior, well I like that too. To me it's how a car should look inside, clean uncluttered, interesting and functional.
So that's the looks taken care of. I admit for some a removable roof might be a want, personally I prefer the looks of a coupe, so I don't see why such a car as this should get marked down for this.
Performance, several reviews I read seemed to claim the performance was "un-Lotus like" and "the performance isn't in line with the Elise or Exige". - is anyone able to explain these to me? maybe someone who's driven one?
Because looking at the stats I surely don't understand it.
Weight wise, ok it's a tad heavier. But lets keep this real and on planet Earth shall we. It still weighs less than a tonne, so that's lighter than an MX-5 and vastly lighter than any Porsche offering.
In fact, it's within a whisker of the highly rated Vauxhall VX220 turbo or an Elise/Exige S!
If competing in a race series, then ok it's extra weight might be an issue compared to the Exige. But its a road car and still a "lightweight" road car.
Acceleration seems on par with the competition, 200hp and over 200bhp/tonne would seem to offer up performance stats nicely between an Elise and an Exige. And that's ignoring the evident easy tuning potential of a 2.0 litre turbocharged motor, 220, 240, 300bhp anyone...
And as the Europa S uses the same longer VX220 chassis and I suspect suspension, it baffles me that it doesn't handle well or isn't fun to drive. As some of the reviews would seem to have you believing.
So again, how is it un-Lotus?
In truth I personally suspect the Europa might be the ideal petrol heads car. All the benefits of an Elise, in a better looking body but with enough creature comforts to make it truly tenable as a daily. I suspect it'll offer up 98% of the Elise driving thrills with 98% of the practicality most enthusiasts could easily live with.
As so few people claim to have actually seen one I logically assume very view people have driven or owned one. Or at least far less than those that seem to not like it.
To me this means 99% of people who talk about them evidently know nothing about them.
So to further investigate and read up I did some Googling, seems there are very few reviews for it and what I did read seemed at odds IMO. No love again and largely repetition, as in each review seems to be an almost carbon copy of the others, as if each journalist decided to write about someone else's views rather than review the car.
I will admit I too haven't driven or even sat in a Europa S. But this is at least my take on it.
It looks flippin great!!
Not as cheeky as an S1 Elise, not as edgy and fussy as an S2 Elise and not as angular as a VX220. But I like it, I think it looks like a more expensive car, more sleek and sophisticated. And having seen a couple in the flesh they look even better in person.
At any rate, nobody in their right mind could call it ugly.
As for the interior, well I like that too. To me it's how a car should look inside, clean uncluttered, interesting and functional.
So that's the looks taken care of. I admit for some a removable roof might be a want, personally I prefer the looks of a coupe, so I don't see why such a car as this should get marked down for this.
Performance, several reviews I read seemed to claim the performance was "un-Lotus like" and "the performance isn't in line with the Elise or Exige". - is anyone able to explain these to me?
maybe someone who's driven one?Because looking at the stats I surely don't understand it.
Weight wise, ok it's a tad heavier. But lets keep this real and on planet Earth shall we. It still weighs less than a tonne, so that's lighter than an MX-5 and vastly lighter than any Porsche offering.
In fact, it's within a whisker of the highly rated Vauxhall VX220 turbo or an Elise/Exige S!
| Europa S | 995kg |
| VX220 VXR | 930kg |
| Elise SC | 903kg |
| Exige S | 935kg |
| MX-5 Coupe | 1192kg |
| Boxster | 1305kg |
If competing in a race series, then ok it's extra weight might be an issue compared to the Exige. But its a road car and still a "lightweight" road car.
Acceleration seems on par with the competition, 200hp and over 200bhp/tonne would seem to offer up performance stats nicely between an Elise and an Exige. And that's ignoring the evident easy tuning potential of a 2.0 litre turbocharged motor, 220, 240, 300bhp anyone...
And as the Europa S uses the same longer VX220 chassis and I suspect suspension, it baffles me that it doesn't handle well or isn't fun to drive. As some of the reviews would seem to have you believing.
So again, how is it un-Lotus?
- I have to admit, I'm totally gobsmacked at such comments
In truth I personally suspect the Europa might be the ideal petrol heads car. All the benefits of an Elise, in a better looking body but with enough creature comforts to make it truly tenable as a daily. I suspect it'll offer up 98% of the Elise driving thrills with 98% of the practicality most enthusiasts could easily live with.
It's a good car (although the initial throttle map was rubbish), but it wasn't what Lotus marketed (and priced) it as. They basically tried to claim it was a Cayman competitor and priced it against the Cayman. Had they marketed and priced it as a more comfortable Elise/Exige, I think it might have sold quite well.
The initial interior also wasn't much good. The one you've posted a picture of was a later options pack, I think.
The initial interior also wasn't much good. The one you've posted a picture of was a later options pack, I think.
kambites said:
It's a good car (although the initial throttle map was rubbish), but it wasn't what Lotus marketed (and priced) it as. They basically tried to claim it was a Cayman competitor and priced it against the Cayman. Had they marketed and priced it as a more comfortable Elise/Exige, I think it might have sold quite well.
The initial interior also wasn't much good. The one you've posted a picture of was a later options pack, I think.
Yeah I read the map was a bit dodgy, was it a different map to a VX220T?The initial interior also wasn't much good. The one you've posted a picture of was a later options pack, I think.
Price wise, Wikipeida says £33k (although no idea how accurate this is). But to me that doesn't seem that much more pricey than an Elise or Exige. Certainly a sensible gap for a "model up".
And more of a question, did Lotus actually claim it as a Cayman rival or was that media hype/mistake?
I think it makes sense second hand but not new (as was the vx220).
I had a vx220 turbo a few years ago and looking at those pictures I am surprised at just how similar the Europa interior is to the vx - the difference being its got a padded leather interior, thats not going to fool anyone into parting with a huge amount of cash for a new is it?
I had a vx220 turbo a few years ago and looking at those pictures I am surprised at just how similar the Europa interior is to the vx - the difference being its got a padded leather interior, thats not going to fool anyone into parting with a huge amount of cash for a new is it?
300bhp/ton said:
Yeah I read the map was a bit dodgy, was it a different map to a VX220T?
Price wise, Wikipeida says £33k (although no idea how accurate this is). But to me that doesn't seem that much more pricey than an Elise or Exige. Certainly a sensible gap for a "model up".
And more of a question, did Lotus actually claim it as a Cayman rival or was that media hype/mistake?
I think my point was that it wasn't a "model up" from the Elise/Exige, it was simply a sideways step and should have been priced as such - around the same as an Exige. And it should have had that interior that you picture as standard for that price. If that really wasn't possible, then there simply wasn't a market for the car, IMO. Price wise, Wikipeida says £33k (although no idea how accurate this is). But to me that doesn't seem that much more pricey than an Elise or Exige. Certainly a sensible gap for a "model up".
And more of a question, did Lotus actually claim it as a Cayman rival or was that media hype/mistake?
Lotus claimed it was a "GT", which it clearly wasn't. I never actually heard Lotus directly compare it to the Cayman, but the entire motoring press certainly did.
The car had 2 problems on release:
It was marketed and aimed at being a GT and so aimed at the Cayman.
The throttle mapping was downright attrocious. Right smack bang in the middle of the range where you want the grunt as you went up through 2nd to 4th when you changed gear they dropped you into a hole. You could drive around it, but only by buggering about.
These 2 aspects buggered it from the start. Lotus sorted the mapping 2nd time around, but by then the damage was done to the cars rep as a tool for use and the market never trusted Lotus trying to flog a tarted up Vx220 with a relatively low grade interior to take on the Cayman. Of course 2nd hand and with the fettling that can be found, these things make a cracking motor.
It was marketed and aimed at being a GT and so aimed at the Cayman.
The throttle mapping was downright attrocious. Right smack bang in the middle of the range where you want the grunt as you went up through 2nd to 4th when you changed gear they dropped you into a hole. You could drive around it, but only by buggering about.
These 2 aspects buggered it from the start. Lotus sorted the mapping 2nd time around, but by then the damage was done to the cars rep as a tool for use and the market never trusted Lotus trying to flog a tarted up Vx220 with a relatively low grade interior to take on the Cayman. Of course 2nd hand and with the fettling that can be found, these things make a cracking motor.
rallycross said:
I think it makes sense second hand but not new (as was the vx220).
I had a vx220 turbo a few years ago and looking at those pictures I am surprised at just how similar the Europa interior is to the vx - the difference being its got a padded leather interior, thats not going to fool anyone into parting with a huge amount of cash for a new is it?
I'm not really in a position to say as I've never had that sort of cash. But why not? I think the Lotus interior (probably even the standard one) looks way nicer than a Boxsters or even a 996's.I had a vx220 turbo a few years ago and looking at those pictures I am surprised at just how similar the Europa interior is to the vx - the difference being its got a padded leather interior, thats not going to fool anyone into parting with a huge amount of cash for a new is it?
Just curious and sort of playing off of your comment above. But for the same or less money what would you suggest was a better bet than the Europa S?
I'd have one- I think they're attractive and probably more usable as a daily driver. Having said that though I can understand why they weren't a hit- they're still pretty tight to get into and once you are in I'm sure you don't get that feeling of solidity you do in a Porsche, or even a 350Z for that matter. In all honesty the people that are prepared to make the sacrifices in space and refinement to buy one of these are probably happy to make a little more sacrifice and get an Exige.
I love the look of the Europa, but with roof permently in place too difficult to get in and out of. That feature on elises, exiges, vx220 isn't s deal breaker as the cars are mostly bought as weekend toys where a bit a compromise like that is acceptable. For all year round daily driver, for drivers of all sizes and ages it's still to impractical.
Fittster said:
Most buyer of cars, including supposed enthusiast are badge snobs. Lotus can't compete with the German brands regardless of the quality of their products.
Maybe it depends on your age but to me Lotus holds much more cache thanBMW, Porsche etc
But I was bought up with Esprits rather than Elises
redgriff500 said:
Fittster said:
Most buyer of cars, including supposed enthusiast are badge snobs. Lotus can't compete with the German brands regardless of the quality of their products.
Maybe it depends on your age but to me Lotus holds much more cache thanBMW, Porsche etc
But I was bought up with Esprits rather than Elises
I went to a Lotus dealer on a day off last year and started talking to one of the sales guys. He told me that they weren't big fans of the Europa and if they got one as a trade in they would rather pass it on than put it on the forecourt. So if even the dealers didn't want it it's not suprising that it was a small seller.
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