Hard to get excited ...
Discussion
these days,
most cars are oversytled, highly fashion concious, sporty looking with performance pretensions, or designed with a high level of modernity etc..
when you look at something like an evora or a 997, it doesn't really look that much different to say some swoopy curvacious Ford MPV
take the range rover sport... it might not be to your taste but check out all the detailing, its a very impressive blingy thing
all cars need to look special and bling these days to sell ... even a honda accord has 'flame surfacing' and a nose reminiscent of something out of battlestar gallactica
whereas in the 1990's, the 1980's, sports cars were always totally different and very very special looking compared to all other cars ... there was a distinct and very wide gap IMO
there was nothing remotely like the Lotus M100 Elan for example
when I had mine it looked like something from the future and people used to gloat
even a mazda MX5 looked a bit special, i remember seeing one for the first time and I was truly excited about it
I remember driving along in my esprit S4 and it was like aliens had landed
'normal' cars of that age were just boxes with a boot one end and a bonnet the other whereas nowadays, all cars are performance cars almost
this brings me to me general Meh-ness about cars these days
that said, classic cars aside, from the cars that might be in reach this year, I would certainly make room for:
1. 996 RS
2. 360 Challenge Stradale
3. Elise S2 111s
4. 3.2 Supersport
not interested in much else though
most cars are oversytled, highly fashion concious, sporty looking with performance pretensions, or designed with a high level of modernity etc..
when you look at something like an evora or a 997, it doesn't really look that much different to say some swoopy curvacious Ford MPV
take the range rover sport... it might not be to your taste but check out all the detailing, its a very impressive blingy thing
all cars need to look special and bling these days to sell ... even a honda accord has 'flame surfacing' and a nose reminiscent of something out of battlestar gallactica
whereas in the 1990's, the 1980's, sports cars were always totally different and very very special looking compared to all other cars ... there was a distinct and very wide gap IMO
there was nothing remotely like the Lotus M100 Elan for example
when I had mine it looked like something from the future and people used to gloat
even a mazda MX5 looked a bit special, i remember seeing one for the first time and I was truly excited about it
I remember driving along in my esprit S4 and it was like aliens had landed
'normal' cars of that age were just boxes with a boot one end and a bonnet the other whereas nowadays, all cars are performance cars almost
this brings me to me general Meh-ness about cars these days
that said, classic cars aside, from the cars that might be in reach this year, I would certainly make room for:
1. 996 RS
2. 360 Challenge Stradale
3. Elise S2 111s
4. 3.2 Supersport
not interested in much else though
i realise that most people wouldn't bat an eyelid at my 993.. its all so subjective
but to me
when i get home to it after test driving some modern metal
well, to me it looks totally incredible
the simple shape
the smallness
the purity
the lack of mass production techniques
like multi platform concessions to light housings, tailgates etc..
free from legislation and rules
its a timeless, bespoke, handbuilt beautiful antique to me
its something i want to keep forever and never let go of
it makes you feel that way
the problem is
any car i spend ££££ on i want it to have that same appeal and anything made recently just doesn't have it and by comparison is completely throwaway
but to me
when i get home to it after test driving some modern metal
well, to me it looks totally incredible
the simple shape
the smallness
the purity
the lack of mass production techniques
like multi platform concessions to light housings, tailgates etc..
free from legislation and rules
its a timeless, bespoke, handbuilt beautiful antique to me
its something i want to keep forever and never let go of
it makes you feel that way
the problem is
any car i spend ££££ on i want it to have that same appeal and anything made recently just doesn't have it and by comparison is completely throwaway
Edited by jackal on Wednesday 26th January 14:24
I wandered out of the supermarket the other night and I thought I had spotted a new Audi RS-3 parked up - in red with big wheels, deep grille, fancy headlamps etc.
"Bit of a scoop, I'll have a photo of that for the PH boys" I thought to myself.
Only on (very) close inspection did I realise that it was a TDi.
...edited to add, I agree with you entirely about the 993 and feel the same way about mine.
"Bit of a scoop, I'll have a photo of that for the PH boys" I thought to myself.
Only on (very) close inspection did I realise that it was a TDi.
...edited to add, I agree with you entirely about the 993 and feel the same way about mine.
Edited by adycav on Wednesday 26th January 14:25
adycav said:
I wandered out of the supermarket the other night and I thought I had spotted a new Audi RS-3 parked up - in red with big wheels, deep grille, fancy headlamps etc.
"Bit of a scoop, I'll have a photo of that for the PH boys" I thought to myself.
Only on (very) close inspection did I realise that it was a TDi.
that's a good point"Bit of a scoop, I'll have a photo of that for the PH boys" I thought to myself.
Only on (very) close inspection did I realise that it was a TDi.
as porsche realised decades back with the 3.2 supersport .... you can offer a 'lookalike' for a lot less money and make tons of cash
so many cars have all the visual spec but not the stuff underneath
pilchardthecat said:
I don't agree that back in the 80s there was a just big difference between ordinary cars and sports cars - there were much bigger design differences between all kinds of cars. Compare ordinary Fords with ordinary Citroens. Cars are just more 'samey' these days.
I kind of agree.. ther was more diversity thenbut the normal cars didn't look that special and didn't try to look sporty or fast
nowadays everything seems to look like its performance orientated, bling and fast whether its a ferrari or a 900cc daewoo
as a race, we have all become a lot more OBSESSED with LOOKS and FASHION
Can you get excited about going out for fun drives/road-trips rather than the styling/looks of the cars on offer?
The Caterham is by no means a beautiful car but I still get excited with the (all too rare nowadays) prospect of a blat in it.
For me, it's about the driving, not the car.
The Caterham is by no means a beautiful car but I still get excited with the (all too rare nowadays) prospect of a blat in it.
For me, it's about the driving, not the car.
Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 26th January 14:30
The thing is, the classics are mostly still out there and are just as good as they always were (at least if you can find one which hasn't rusted away) so if you really prefer old sports cars, you can just buy and run an old sports car (as, indeed, you did by the looks of it).
I find modern cars interesting at a technical level but there are very few that I have any wish to actually own. If I ever do feel the need to replace or complement the Elise, I suspect it'll be with something substantially older. Having said that, for me the problem isn't what modern cars look like, which doesn't particularly bother me, but how they drive.
I find modern cars interesting at a technical level but there are very few that I have any wish to actually own. If I ever do feel the need to replace or complement the Elise, I suspect it'll be with something substantially older. Having said that, for me the problem isn't what modern cars look like, which doesn't particularly bother me, but how they drive.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 26th January 14:35
jackal said:
when you look at something like an evora or a 997, it doesn't really look that much different to say some swoopy curvacious Ford MPV
whereas in the 1990's, the 1980's, sports cars were always totally different and very very special looking compared to all other cars ... there was a distinct and very wide gap IMO
there was nothing remotely like the Lotus M100 Elan for example. I remember driving along in my esprit S4 and it was like aliens had landed(
Totally agree. In particular, how Lotus went from Esprit to M100 to Elise (all good so far) but then "embraced dullness" for the Europa and especially Evora just beggars belief. And I would cheerfully add the hideously overpriced Noble M600 to that list of dullards.whereas in the 1990's, the 1980's, sports cars were always totally different and very very special looking compared to all other cars ... there was a distinct and very wide gap IMO
there was nothing remotely like the Lotus M100 Elan for example. I remember driving along in my esprit S4 and it was like aliens had landed(
IMO the only sportscar with really good styling right now is the F458.
KTM X-bow was a brave effort but you really do shoot yourself in the foot (both feet) when you build a road car with no windscreen and no roof.
edo said:
jackal said:
when you look at something like an evora or a 997, it doesn't really look that much different to say some swoopy curvacious Ford MPV
Agree with some of your points, but this is a point too far IMHO!of course they don't look anything alike
but there just isn't such a wide gap
i sat in some ford mpv the other day, not sure what it was, but it was a very futuristic looking thing and quite impressive looking, lots of little styling details, a very shallow rake on the windscreen, a sculpted front skirt and bumper, some meaty side skirts ....
in fact if you squashed it down and rounded off the back a bit, yes, it wouldn't be that dissimilar to an evora in terms of its overall shape, its aspirations and what its trying to do
Basically the point about an evora is I went to see one the other day and yeah, it looked good but really not that great, not that special compared to everything else ... and bear in mind its one of the few modern cars i like the look of at the moment.
Cast your mind back to the club lotus meet in 1995 at Donnington when they had two Esprit S4S's on show and they just looked incredible, like nothing else on earth.
Or the time I first saw an F355 parked up casually in coldharbour in dorking. It was the week they were launched and there was this gorgeous lump of rosso corsa seemingly abandoned down a country lane. My god it looked absolutely mind blowing.
Cast your mind back to the club lotus meet in 1995 at Donnington when they had two Esprit S4S's on show and they just looked incredible, like nothing else on earth.
Or the time I first saw an F355 parked up casually in coldharbour in dorking. It was the week they were launched and there was this gorgeous lump of rosso corsa seemingly abandoned down a country lane. My god it looked absolutely mind blowing.
I've only ever bought one new car-the megane r26.r & that was for exactly the same reason-the detailing, the making of a true hardcore track special out of a family hatch-I loved that car.
The only other new car I've considered has been the boxster spyder, I genuinly love the look & feel of them things-the only car that Porsche make today that appeals.
The only other new car I've considered has been the boxster spyder, I genuinly love the look & feel of them things-the only car that Porsche make today that appeals.
Have to say (flame suit on), I think it's pure Rose Tint. We forget about all the old bland, boxy tat that spans the depths of each decade, and the only cars that stick in our minds are the ones that provoke an emotional response. Did any of us really pick up Autocar to read about such automotive delights as the mk5 Escort, the first Vectra, the Renault 25, etc etc.
F355 is quite a good example actually, everyone raves about it being a pretty car (and I agree), but in fact it's quite flat and plain when you look at it. You could level the same criticism that it bears those common basic styling elements as the contemporary MR2 (which predated it), or even something like a 106 or Espace. Broad, flat surfaces across the centreline, rounded sides with a low waistline compared to the glasshouse, large radiused bumpers and squared off corners.
But in reality, I got the same Wow factor when I first saw an F355, when I first saw a 360, an Enzo, and even most recently a 458.
I think the fact is that generally we like to think that whatever we grew up with is the prettiest or best. I'm the same with Music, I can't listen to anything that was produced beyond about 2004.
F355 is quite a good example actually, everyone raves about it being a pretty car (and I agree), but in fact it's quite flat and plain when you look at it. You could level the same criticism that it bears those common basic styling elements as the contemporary MR2 (which predated it), or even something like a 106 or Espace. Broad, flat surfaces across the centreline, rounded sides with a low waistline compared to the glasshouse, large radiused bumpers and squared off corners.
But in reality, I got the same Wow factor when I first saw an F355, when I first saw a 360, an Enzo, and even most recently a 458.
I think the fact is that generally we like to think that whatever we grew up with is the prettiest or best. I'm the same with Music, I can't listen to anything that was produced beyond about 2004.
I think the key point is that the definition of a sports car has changed in some people's minds. Whereas once it might have been a bespoke two-seater RWD convertible, the term is now more generic and is applied to all manner of things from hatchbacks to saloons.
It's hardly a new trend though - the Lotus Cortina springs to mind as an example of this blurring of the definition of a sports car.
A couple of people have mentioned the Esprit as an example of a design that was radically removed from the contemporary shopping car but let's be honest, the Esprit was what we'd now class as a junior supercar. Its equivalent today might be something like a Gallardo, which (outside of the big cities) would still turn heads in the same way the Esprit did.
In some respects it seems perverse to criticise modern cars for having levels of quality and impressive design features that were once the preserve of high-end sports cars. Surely it's a good thing? I realise there's also a lot of platform/parts sharing going on these days but, in part, that's how the build quality has been brought up to current levels.
It's hardly a new trend though - the Lotus Cortina springs to mind as an example of this blurring of the definition of a sports car.
A couple of people have mentioned the Esprit as an example of a design that was radically removed from the contemporary shopping car but let's be honest, the Esprit was what we'd now class as a junior supercar. Its equivalent today might be something like a Gallardo, which (outside of the big cities) would still turn heads in the same way the Esprit did.
In some respects it seems perverse to criticise modern cars for having levels of quality and impressive design features that were once the preserve of high-end sports cars. Surely it's a good thing? I realise there's also a lot of platform/parts sharing going on these days but, in part, that's how the build quality has been brought up to current levels.
Edited by Risotto on Wednesday 26th January 16:15
The Crack Fox said:
ewenm said:
For me, it's about the driving, not the car.
I realised exactly this some time ago. That's why yesterday I was up the Duke's Pass in the Trossachs ragging the arse off a rented Corsa, instead of 'detailing' an ever depreciating asset I daren't leave in Tescos. 
baz1985 said:
The Crack Fox said:
ewenm said:
For me, it's about the driving, not the car.
I realised exactly this some time ago. That's why yesterday I was up the Duke's Pass in the Trossachs ragging the arse off a rented Corsa, instead of 'detailing' an ever depreciating asset I daren't leave in Tescos. Driving .... Yeah, for sure i love driving amything and if you can lean on a car then even a boggo 1.6 golf will cover ground very very quickly, but im talking about owning nice cars, cars of your dreams, cherishing them, cleaning, fixing and upgrading them .... Car ownership ha so much depth, its so much more than just driving them
And .... My r500 caterham looked fabulous to me, still miss it
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