313mpg

[vescaegg]

Sorry if this is a repost, I couldn't find it in a search.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12281238

Obviously not going to be available any time soon, but pretty impressive!

[sebhaque]

Here I was thinking 60mpg was an achievement it's amazing how far technology has come though, I was speaking to a friend at lunch who has a Morris Minor, he can get just under 40mpg out of it on the motorway, and in the 50s that was considered amazing. Considering that's a fairly easy achievement for my VX, which wasn't built for economy, it stands to reason that in 40-50 years time our kids/grandkids will be comparing our current eco car MPGs to the sports cars of their generation.

[s3fella]

Its all made of carbon and STILL weighs 790kg!!

[Fatman2]

I've read the Autocar article covering the same car and reckon it's total bks. VAG are never going to produce a car that has an 800cc, 47bhp engine that does 300mpg (coupled to a battery or not). They claim it's half of a Polo Bluemotion engine that's modified so that it only needs 8bhp to cruise at 62mph (as opposed to 18bhp for a Golf 1.6TDI).

They calim it's not for direct production. Surprise, surprise.

I hate to be a naysayer but if VAG has the tech to produce cars that can do 300mpg then they'd put them on the market and put every single car manufacturer out of business in a day. In this current climate we'd all be queuing up for one so that it would only cost us £6 to commute to work all week LOL.

Unfortunately their Bluemotion cars can't even do 100mpg so how the hell are they going to make such a quantum leap in such short notice?

[EDLT]

Its just this thing with 200 miles worth of batteries and a "range extender" isn't it?

[v8will]

An elderly gentlemen I knew a few years back had family who worked for Ford way back. He maintained Ford had developed a carb which in the mid 1920's was capable of over 60MPG. Ford got paid to bin the idea but some of the oil companies. I always took the idea with a pinch of salt but...

Bullst or not I wonder how many developments have been scrapped due to gentle persuasion by the big oil firms?

[Fatman2]

You may have a point. VW are unveiling the car at the Qatar motor show so suspect the head of marketing will come to a sticky end after speaking to the oil chaps there.

[Wing Commander]

v8will said:

An elderly gentlemen I knew a few years back had family who worked for Ford way back. He maintained Ford had developed a carb which in the mid 1920's was capable of over 60MPG. Ford got paid to bin the idea but some of the oil companies. I always took the idea with a pinch of salt but...

Bullst or not I wonder how many developments have been scrapped due to gentle persuasion by the big oil firms?

I've heard variations on this for years - I wonder how much truth is in it. I doubt very much. This isn't directed at you in any way - just not convinced by the "cover up" theories.

[tali1]

FWIW
Peugeot have kept their 308 hdi 126mpg record rather surprisingly quiet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/motoring/peug...

[jbi]

Fatman2 said:

I've read the Autocar article covering the same car and reckon it's total bks. VAG are never going to produce a car that has an 800cc, 47bhp engine that does 300mpg (coupled to a battery or not). They claim it's half of a Polo Bluemotion engine that's modified so that it only needs 8bhp to cruise at 62mph (as opposed to 18bhp for a Golf 1.6TDI).

They calim it's not for direct production. Surprise, surprise.

I hate to be a naysayer but if VAG has the tech to produce cars that can do 300mpg then they'd put them on the market and put every single car manufacturer out of business in a day. In this current climate we'd all be queuing up for one so that it would only cost us £6 to commute to work all week LOL.

Unfortunately their Bluemotion cars can't even do 100mpg so how the hell are they going to make such a quantum leap in such short notice?

The reason it can achieve such a high mpg is because as it's a concept car which does not have to meet crash safety regulations.

I can assure you that the production variant would weigh twice as much and get less than half the economy.

[Somnophore]

They managed to produce the Lupo 3L sold in Europe which can do over 100mpg as a production car in 2003 and that's a normal car give or take so should be possible to make much more economical production cars however they cost a fair amount to produce to they are a bigger risk.

[Ephraim]

Wing Commander said:

v8will said:

An elderly gentlemen I knew a few years back had family who worked for Ford way back. He maintained Ford had developed a carb which in the mid 1920's was capable of over 60MPG. Ford got paid to bin the idea but some of the oil companies. I always took the idea with a pinch of salt but...

Bullst or not I wonder how many developments have been scrapped due to gentle persuasion by the big oil firms?

I've heard variations on this for years - I wonder how much truth is in it. I doubt very much. This isn't directed at you in any way - just not convinced by the "cover up" theories.

I know that the company that I worked for in 2001 was the first in the world to have a plant capable of mass-producing hydrogen fuel cells and was running several vehicles on hydrogen successfully (although, obviously with no infrastructure the hydrogen had to be carted out to the vehicle for refilling). That company was in some serious negotiations to have the fuel cells used commercially when it ran out of investment. The shortfall in money came because one of its major investors pulled out. That investor was a major oil firm. This killed the company and it was forced to close, with all IP reverting to its creditors.

I offer this without comment, as I couldn't possibly say what motivations drove the investor's decision making.

[anonymous-user]

I don't think "technology" has got anything to do with it really, we've been able to make high mpg cars for ages, it's just that, up till now, the customer hasn't wanted them!


seriously, ask youself, what would you buy:

CAR A: 130mph, 0-60 in <8sec, Ncap 5*, seats 5, decent boot, CD, ipod, powersteering etc, ABS brakes and stability control 100-0 in less than 5sec, looks nice on big wheels, quiet to drive at high speed, has air conditioning and comfy chairs, BUT only does 40mpg

OR,

CAR B; none of the above, but it does do 300mpg.


till literally now, no one, would have bought car B with their own money (ok, almost no one, 6 people did buy a G-whiz, but that was mainly to avoid paying the congestion tax, er, i mean charge....)

[Fatman2]

Well knowing VAG then yes, it will weigh twice as much

In the real world though I doubt it will even achieve 150mpg. The SMART fortwo CDi has an 800cc, 44bhp diesel engine and weighs roughly the same yet only manages 85mpg. So they basicaly need to double this and they're still only half way there!

[Fatman2]

Max_Torque said:

I don't think "technology" has got anything to do with it really, we've been able to make high mpg cars for ages, it's just that, up till now, the customer hasn't wanted them!


seriously, ask youself, what would you buy:

CAR A: 130mph, 0-60 in <8sec, Ncap 5*, seats 5, decent boot, CD, ipod, powersteering etc, ABS brakes and stability control 100-0 in less than 5sec, looks nice on big wheels, quiet to drive at high speed, has air conditioning and comfy chairs, BUT only does 40mpg

OR,

CAR B; none of the above, but it does do 300mpg.


till literally now, no one, would have bought car B with their own money (ok, almost no one, 6 people did buy a G-whiz, but that was mainly to avoid paying the congestion tax, er, i mean charge....)

I disagree, tech has loads to do with it.

There's only a certain amount of energy available in fuel and current engine technology is not good enough to extract more power and minimise the associated losses/inefficiencies from the combustion cycle. Of the fuel used only about 30% actually arrives at the wheels and then rolling/wind resistance kills a proportion of the rest off.

The major improvements in efficiency have been brought about by new engine technologies whilst manufacturers have kept piling on the weight.

[Kong]

Does anyone else thing the car companies are stalling for time?

If you look at the different methods to gain efficiency currently used by mainstream car companies:

- Small lightweight cars (obviously)
- Diesels
- Hybrid drive
- Regenerative brakes (KERS)
- sequential turbocharging/ variable turbine geometry

These technologies all exist yet nobody has put all these technologies in the same car. Why not produced a small lightweight car, with a tiny diesel engine with the latest turbo technology, connected to a hybrid drive with KERS?

[JonnyVTEC]

Because it wouldn't be light with all that gear, or cheap. Also i need to see a hybrid system WITHOUT KERS, oh wait....

A smart is a proverbial barn door compared to this arrow. Cruise MPG is all about the aero!

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Wednesday 26th January 00:00

[ian_touring]

Ephraim said:

Wing Commander said:

v8will said:

An elderly gentlemen I knew a few years back had family who worked for Ford way back. He maintained Ford had developed a carb which in the mid 1920's was capable of over 60MPG. Ford got paid to bin the idea but some of the oil companies. I always took the idea with a pinch of salt but...

Bullst or not I wonder how many developments have been scrapped due to gentle persuasion by the big oil firms?

I've heard variations on this for years - I wonder how much truth is in it. I doubt very much. This isn't directed at you in any way - just not convinced by the "cover up" theories.

I know that the company that I worked for in 2001 was the first in the world to have a plant capable of mass-producing hydrogen fuel cells and was running several vehicles on hydrogen successfully (although, obviously with no infrastructure the hydrogen had to be carted out to the vehicle for refilling). That company was in some serious negotiations to have the fuel cells used commercially when it ran out of investment. The shortfall in money came because one of its major investors pulled out. That investor was a major oil firm. This killed the company and it was forced to close, with all IP reverting to its creditors.

I offer this without comment, as I couldn't possibly say what motivations drove the investor's decision making.

...and if you were seriously delusional/paranoid/imaginative you could picture a situation where "oil running out" was a big hoax to fool the public to pay ever-increasing prices for oil-based products...

Apparently there is an ever-lasting lightbulb, but the bulb making industry have bought and mothballed the copyright [/internet crazies]

[Kong]

tali1 said:

FWIW
Peugeot have kept their 308 hdi 126mpg record rather surprisingly quiet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/motoring/peug...

I have been doing some googling about this story. I want to know how they managed to get a 70mpg car to do 126mpg. It makes no mention of it in the articles whatsoever.

I'm guessing they must have pumped the tyres up to have zero grip and accelerated up to the bare minimum speed without labouring the engine in 6th gear, maybe 35mph? That way theres minumum impact of air resistance and reduced losses through the drivetrain.

I do believe its possible but would like to know how they did it!

Edited by Kong on Wednesday 26th January 00:58

[glazbagun]

Max_Torque said:

I don't think "technology" has got anything to do with it really, we've been able to make high mpg cars for ages, it's just that, up till now, the customer hasn't wanted them!

seriously, ask youself, what would you buy:

CAR A: 130mph, 0-60 in <8sec, Ncap 5*, seats 5, decent boot, CD, ipod, powersteering etc, ABS brakes and stability control 100-0 in less than 5sec, looks nice on big wheels, quiet to drive at high speed, has air conditioning and comfy chairs, BUT only does 40mpg

OR,

CAR B; none of the above, but it does do 300mpg.

till literally now, no one, would have bought car B with their own money (ok, almost no one, 6 people did buy a G-whiz, but that was mainly to avoid paying the congestion tax, er, i mean charge....)

I agree. The 1908 Fritchle Model A Victoria had a 100 Mile range. 9 Miles less than the Nissan Leaf. If people were car and efficiency enthusiasts, we'd have 250MPG Westfield 11's driving around all over the shop. People don't want transport, they want peer recognition.