Some advice on my engine project please? (pics included)D
Discussion
Long story short, 2000 Vectra with the Z22SE engine. Seller told me the head cracked about 2 years ago and he got it fixed at great expense. Anyway, the car started using coolant and there was more white stuff coming out of the back than in a sauna. He stated his mechanic confirmed with him the head had cracked again (i'll come to this in a bit).
I started it, it would idle fine, and would even be drivable (although i drove it about 100 yards). After a minute or so you could see lots of white smoke out of the back and it began to run a little lumpy when revving but nothing that noticeable.
Anyway, i stripped it down, took the head off and cant see anything wrong at all. I cant see any obvious cracks to either the block or the head itself. Theres no cracks, warps or bubbling on the gasket. I've yet to give it a full clean but cant see anything wrong. I wondered how his 'mechanic' confirmed the head was cracked again without taking it all off (and if you went to the extent of stripping it to discover this, why not just fix it?).
Im wondering if its the same mechanic is scared as he maybe bodged it last time or something similar. Im afraid i dont have any details as to what repair the head had last time, including any skimming or anything like that.
Any suggestions as to what would be the best course of action from here? I've taken some (low-res im afraid) pictures of how the car is at the moment, if that helps anyone at all.
Of note, i found a load of coolant in cylinders #2 and #3 however believe this is because i only half drained the coolant system before removing the head, as i couldnt get the bottom hose off. I've dried this up with cloth. I've also noted that all valves on #1 arent flush into the head, as are the inlet valves on #2. 3 and 4 are all nice and flush. Is this something of concern? I think i've got the timeing right, 1# appears at tdc (however #1 is about an eight of an inch below from being flush with the top of the block, is this right?)
lastly, will i do any damage cleaning the block and head using a kitchen sponge (the type with a brillow type surface on the bottom). I wont go overboard, i dont want scratches all over the surfaces. If this wont do, whats the best way of getting it all cleaned up?
Images:
Ignore spaghetti junction on the sprocket
Any help appreciated, if you spot something totally wrong or totally messed up, please let me know. Im kinda proud of myself, prior to this the most i had ever done was very basic servicing items like filters and plugs. Im sure i've probably not done things like some of the pro's on here, but for a few hundred quid, its something i've found fun.
And there's nothing like a PH'er whose kitchen is now populated by an engine
I started it, it would idle fine, and would even be drivable (although i drove it about 100 yards). After a minute or so you could see lots of white smoke out of the back and it began to run a little lumpy when revving but nothing that noticeable.
Anyway, i stripped it down, took the head off and cant see anything wrong at all. I cant see any obvious cracks to either the block or the head itself. Theres no cracks, warps or bubbling on the gasket. I've yet to give it a full clean but cant see anything wrong. I wondered how his 'mechanic' confirmed the head was cracked again without taking it all off (and if you went to the extent of stripping it to discover this, why not just fix it?).
Im wondering if its the same mechanic is scared as he maybe bodged it last time or something similar. Im afraid i dont have any details as to what repair the head had last time, including any skimming or anything like that.
Any suggestions as to what would be the best course of action from here? I've taken some (low-res im afraid) pictures of how the car is at the moment, if that helps anyone at all.
Of note, i found a load of coolant in cylinders #2 and #3 however believe this is because i only half drained the coolant system before removing the head, as i couldnt get the bottom hose off. I've dried this up with cloth. I've also noted that all valves on #1 arent flush into the head, as are the inlet valves on #2. 3 and 4 are all nice and flush. Is this something of concern? I think i've got the timeing right, 1# appears at tdc (however #1 is about an eight of an inch below from being flush with the top of the block, is this right?)
lastly, will i do any damage cleaning the block and head using a kitchen sponge (the type with a brillow type surface on the bottom). I wont go overboard, i dont want scratches all over the surfaces. If this wont do, whats the best way of getting it all cleaned up?
Images:
Ignore spaghetti junction on the sprocket
Any help appreciated, if you spot something totally wrong or totally messed up, please let me know. Im kinda proud of myself, prior to this the most i had ever done was very basic servicing items like filters and plugs. Im sure i've probably not done things like some of the pro's on here, but for a few hundred quid, its something i've found fun.
And there's nothing like a PH'er whose kitchen is now populated by an engine
Have you tried www.z22se.co.uk? Lots of knowledgeable folk on there with plenty of experience with this engine. You've done well so far though.
Places to check for cracks are each spark plug aperture, as overtightening often cracks them, but there's been a few heads I've seen go porous and leak through the walls (worth a leak test)
If the valves aren't flush they may very well be bent, which would make them appear this way, have you got a valve removal tool? These often bend valves due to the chain failures, any marks on the corresponding piston?
Places to check for cracks are each spark plug aperture, as overtightening often cracks them, but there's been a few heads I've seen go porous and leak through the walls (worth a leak test)
If the valves aren't flush they may very well be bent, which would make them appear this way, have you got a valve removal tool? These often bend valves due to the chain failures, any marks on the corresponding piston?
Edited by AndyLB on Wednesday 19th January 17:16
If the head was warped or the gasket had failed it is normally fairly obvious from the state of the gasket where a failure has occured.
It doesn't seem obvious from the pics that this is the case, although you might see something up close. Therefore it does rather imply that the casting itself has a flaw somewhere so the original mechanic may well be right.
It doesn't seem obvious from the pics that this is the case, although you might see something up close. Therefore it does rather imply that the casting itself has a flaw somewhere so the original mechanic may well be right.
davepoth said:
Looking at pic 5, which I guess is the HG, is that a blow on the 2nd piston from the left, on the upper left? There's a bit there where the copper colour is missing.
Good spot, i had a look at the gasket and it seems totally fine in terms of cracks or marks on that area.However, at the exact same spot on the head, if i run my finger slowly around the rim, it feels like theres a very slight 'dip' at the same point that copper colour is missing from. Its very very slight, and hardly noticeable with the eye. Its the same on #1 too in the exact same place but not as noticeable. Nothing apparent on 3 or 4.
Could this be the area(s) of old repair that have maybe failed?
Acheron said:
davepoth said:
Looking at pic 5, which I guess is the HG, is that a blow on the 2nd piston from the left, on the upper left? There's a bit there where the copper colour is missing.
Good spot, i had a look at the gasket and it seems totally fine in terms of cracks or marks on that area.However, at the exact same spot on the head, if i run my finger slowly around the rim, it feels like theres a very slight 'dip' at the same point that copper colour is missing from. Its very very slight, and hardly noticeable with the eye. Its the same on #1 too in the exact same place but not as noticeable. Nothing apparent on 3 or 4.
Could this be the area(s) of old repair that have maybe failed?
Ok, took the head to my uncle who runs a garage. Had a proper good look at the gasket and the head and confirm no visual cracks or dents. When he asked about how it came off, i had to admit that some of the head bolts seemed to come a bit easier than others. He suggested the previous repair may not have torqued the bolts correctly?
Trying to clean it and under the crap i cant see any marks or dents but the signs of skimming previously are there.
Im struggling a bit getting the carbon off the valves and the area around the valves. At the moment im using a (soft) scourer that you might clean the dishes with, and warm water. Im being careful not to put any scratches or grooves on the head, bits of gasket have scratched off with a small flat head screwdriver.
Anyone else got any input?
Trying to clean it and under the crap i cant see any marks or dents but the signs of skimming previously are there.
Im struggling a bit getting the carbon off the valves and the area around the valves. At the moment im using a (soft) scourer that you might clean the dishes with, and warm water. Im being careful not to put any scratches or grooves on the head, bits of gasket have scratched off with a small flat head screwdriver.
Anyone else got any input?
the only way to no for sure is to send it for testing. norm at the same specialist who will skim it for you if its ok. you may not see the crack!!! dont put it back together if your not 100%
also if you get a s/h replacement have it tested and skimmed you dont want to but it back together to find its no better.
also if you get a s/h replacement have it tested and skimmed you dont want to but it back together to find its no better.
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