Please help me, I think I'm being scammed by a car dealer...
Discussion
Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone here can shed some light on my situation and help me persue this massive ball-ache of a problem I'm currently having. Here's the backstory;
Basically, I traded in a car at an independent 2nd hand dealer in Essex about 10 months ago, the car had MOT, Tax etc. and I PX'd it for an MX5 (which I no longer have, as it was a duff, but that's another story/problem) and they insisted on keeping the V5, and ensured me they send of part of the logbook to take it out of my name, but keep the actual logbook. Now, I have never PX'd a car before, so I just went with it, assuming they are trustworth and know what they're doing.
Anyway, 10 months later and I get a s
tty letter through the post, from a collections agency on behalf of the DVLA trying to prosecute me for not paying my car tax on the car I sold them. I phoned the collections agency up to find out WTF is going on, and apparently the fking V5 is still registered to me!!!!
I phone the dealer and ask WTF is going on, and they tell me they sent the right part of the logbook off, and that the DVLA must have lost it, and they lose a lot of stuff, and that I have to write to them, with a copy of my receipt (long gone) to get it out of my name. I asked them what they do if someone wants to buy it or HPI checks it, and they said they keep the log book that's in my name, and just fill it out to the new owner...now as far as I'm aware, that's illegal? Is that right? I thought dealers weren't meant to do that, although some of the dogdey ones do. He also had know answers for me, when I said in 10 months did you not wonder why you had no confirmation for the logbook being registered to you, or the fact that you haven't SORN it or received letters for taxing it when it ran out about 8 months ago? He had no real answers, just made out like it's all my problem and I have to deal with it. WHAT THE fk. So they are fully aware that the car is not SORN, and it is in my name, with no tax, and I'm getting the bullst for it.
Now what can I do, firstly to get this car out of my name and out of my responsibility, and also to screw these guys just as hard? Can I re-apply for a duplicate V5 (seeing as it's still in my name) and then SORN it, to avoid having to tax it? Or can I just write to DVLA and tell them I sold the car 10 months ago and it's nothing to do with me? Can I also report these guys (if they have broken the regulations) and if so, who do I report it to and what do I have to tell them?
Any help would be much appreciated, I'm truly fked off with this company. The car they sold me was crap too, had a blow over in silver (apparently a full respray) and looked the part, but the rust came back through in a couple of months and it leaked from every place possible!
Thanks so much.
Basically, I traded in a car at an independent 2nd hand dealer in Essex about 10 months ago, the car had MOT, Tax etc. and I PX'd it for an MX5 (which I no longer have, as it was a duff, but that's another story/problem) and they insisted on keeping the V5, and ensured me they send of part of the logbook to take it out of my name, but keep the actual logbook. Now, I have never PX'd a car before, so I just went with it, assuming they are trustworth and know what they're doing.
Anyway, 10 months later and I get a s
tty letter through the post, from a collections agency on behalf of the DVLA trying to prosecute me for not paying my car tax on the car I sold them. I phoned the collections agency up to find out WTF is going on, and apparently the fking V5 is still registered to me!!!!I phone the dealer and ask WTF is going on, and they tell me they sent the right part of the logbook off, and that the DVLA must have lost it, and they lose a lot of stuff, and that I have to write to them, with a copy of my receipt (long gone) to get it out of my name. I asked them what they do if someone wants to buy it or HPI checks it, and they said they keep the log book that's in my name, and just fill it out to the new owner...now as far as I'm aware, that's illegal? Is that right? I thought dealers weren't meant to do that, although some of the dogdey ones do. He also had know answers for me, when I said in 10 months did you not wonder why you had no confirmation for the logbook being registered to you, or the fact that you haven't SORN it or received letters for taxing it when it ran out about 8 months ago? He had no real answers, just made out like it's all my problem and I have to deal with it. WHAT THE f
k. So they are fully aware that the car is not SORN, and it is in my name, with no tax, and I'm getting the bullst for it. Now what can I do, firstly to get this car out of my name and out of my responsibility, and also to screw these guys just as hard? Can I re-apply for a duplicate V5 (seeing as it's still in my name) and then SORN it, to avoid having to tax it? Or can I just write to DVLA and tell them I sold the car 10 months ago and it's nothing to do with me? Can I also report these guys (if they have broken the regulations) and if so, who do I report it to and what do I have to tell them?
Any help would be much appreciated, I'm truly f
ked off with this company. The car they sold me was crap too, had a blow over in silver (apparently a full respray) and looked the part, but the rust came back through in a couple of months and it leaked from every place possible! Thanks so much.
The mods will remove the name and shame part because it's the rules and in this case I don't see they did anything wrong. You can't blame the dealer for the form going missing, you didn't have to let them send it, you could have done this yourself and then you would have received the receipt. You can't blame other people just because you didn't read the form.
There is another (several actually) thread regarding someone here fighting the DVLA about this very issue. Search for DVLA and you'll find the threads which might help give you some advice.
No the dealer isn't trying to scam you.
There is another (several actually) thread regarding someone here fighting the DVLA about this very issue. Search for DVLA and you'll find the threads which might help give you some advice.
No the dealer isn't trying to scam you.
First, I'd edit your post before someone else does. You may be able to get away with loose implications, but anything remotely resembling a name will get frowned upon here.
Second - is there a reason why you never received the tax reminder? Or if you did, did you bin it...in which case sorry but more fool you.
Third - this is common dealer behaviour - they don't want to re-register the car in their name as they're just a dealer, not an owner (as far as they're concerned). So they almost certainly never sent the V5 section off, assuming your car would be gone before tax became a problem. Then they probably promptly forgot.
Finally - if you've lost the sales receipt, then you've quite possibly got a problem. I'd hunt high and low for that, as that's the only evidence you've got that they own the car. I assume you paid them the balance on the car you bought...if so, tell me (a) it wasn't cash; and (b) you've still got the receipt for the purchase??? That might help as it'd mention part-ex - not conclusive but possibly persuasive.
Otherwise, the only options you've got are:-
- ask them if they'll confirm in writing you p/ex'd the car. Given the situation (and the conversations I'd expect you've already had with them), you've probably got little chance there...
- write to the DVLA and hope they don't ask for evidence. I had to do something similar ~6 weeks after I got rid of a car and they just took a signed letter at face value, but that was on receipt of the tax reminder not when being chased by a debt collector.
Second - is there a reason why you never received the tax reminder? Or if you did, did you bin it...in which case sorry but more fool you.
Third - this is common dealer behaviour - they don't want to re-register the car in their name as they're just a dealer, not an owner (as far as they're concerned). So they almost certainly never sent the V5 section off, assuming your car would be gone before tax became a problem. Then they probably promptly forgot.
Finally - if you've lost the sales receipt, then you've quite possibly got a problem. I'd hunt high and low for that, as that's the only evidence you've got that they own the car. I assume you paid them the balance on the car you bought...if so, tell me (a) it wasn't cash; and (b) you've still got the receipt for the purchase??? That might help as it'd mention part-ex - not conclusive but possibly persuasive.
Otherwise, the only options you've got are:-
- ask them if they'll confirm in writing you p/ex'd the car. Given the situation (and the conversations I'd expect you've already had with them), you've probably got little chance there...
- write to the DVLA and hope they don't ask for evidence. I had to do something similar ~6 weeks after I got rid of a car and they just took a signed letter at face value, but that was on receipt of the tax reminder not when being chased by a debt collector.
When a trader buys in a car for stock they don't register it in their (dealership) name. You (not the dealership) should send off the yellow part of the V5 (section 9 V5C/3) to inform the DVLA that the dealership is now the custodian of the vehicle. Both you and the trader should have signed and dated this section too.
All going well the DVLA will send you an acknowledgement letter confirming this within a few weeks. The onus is on you to contact the DVLA if you haven't heard from them after 4 weeks.
This is all in an ideal world though.
However a number of possible scenarios may or may not have happened in the interim. You and the trader may not have fullfilled your obligations regarding the yellow Section 9 V5C/3. The Post Office may have swallowed your yellow Section 9 V5C/3 . The DVLA may have swallowed your yellow Section 9 V5C/3. The Post Office may have swallowed your acknowledgement letter. You may have received your acknowledgement letter but are no longer in possesion of it because of the time frame, but can give the DVLA an approximate date as to when the deal took place.
(Too subtle as to which one I'm suggesting?)
Obviously only you will know which one of those is closest to the truth and which one will lead to the least amount of grief from the DVLA. But they cannot enforce a financial penalty without going to court and proving your numptyness.
All going well the DVLA will send you an acknowledgement letter confirming this within a few weeks. The onus is on you to contact the DVLA if you haven't heard from them after 4 weeks.
This is all in an ideal world though.
However a number of possible scenarios may or may not have happened in the interim. You and the trader may not have fullfilled your obligations regarding the yellow Section 9 V5C/3. The Post Office may have swallowed your yellow Section 9 V5C/3 . The DVLA may have swallowed your yellow Section 9 V5C/3. The Post Office may have swallowed your acknowledgement letter. You may have received your acknowledgement letter but are no longer in possesion of it because of the time frame, but can give the DVLA an approximate date as to when the deal took place.
(Too subtle as to which one I'm suggesting?)
Obviously only you will know which one of those is closest to the truth and which one will lead to the least amount of grief from the DVLA. But they cannot enforce a financial penalty without going to court and proving your numptyness.
It is your responsibility to send in the yellow slip to notify DVLA that the car is in trade and hence not your responsibilty. It is also perfectly correct that the dealer does not register the car to himself but instead holds the main section of the logbook till he sells the car.
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a b
k on this one I'm afraid.markmullen said:
It is your responsibility to send in the yellow slip to notify DVLA that the car is in trade and hence not your responsibilty. It is also perfectly correct that the dealer does not register the car to himself but instead holds the main section of the logbook till he sells the car.
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
+1Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a b
k on this one I'm afraid.The dealer has done nothing wrong, it is the owners responsibility to inform DVLA when they sell.
markmullen said:
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
It is, but every car dealer I've dealt with has said "I'll take care of the v5" - they're schysters who've no intention of doing that.k on this one I'm afraid.So unless the punter actually knows this, they're likely to take the "professional" (sic) at his word...
havoc said:
markmullen said:
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
It is, but every car dealer I've dealt with has said "I'll take care of the v5" - they're schysters who've no intention of doing that.k on this one I'm afraid.So unless the punter actually knows this, they're likely to take the "professional" (sic) at his word...
The problem here is not 'schyster' dealers, but rather ill informed public who don't bother to read the notes that come with the V5C.
SubaruSteve said:
havoc said:
markmullen said:
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
It is, but every car dealer I've dealt with has said "I'll take care of the v5" - they're schysters who've no intention of doing that.k on this one I'm afraid.So unless the punter actually knows this, they're likely to take the "professional" (sic) at his word...
The problem here is not 'schyster' dealers, but rather ill informed public who don't bother to read the notes that come with the V5C.
I've always been happy to let the dealer send mine off and I've always received the receipt but I can now see why dealers won't do it. If I was a dealer I wouldn't either.
havoc said:
markmullen said:
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
It is, but every car dealer I've dealt with has said "I'll take care of the v5" - they're schysters who've no intention of doing that.k on this one I'm afraid.So unless the punter actually knows this, they're likely to take the "professional" (sic) at his word...
I always hand over the yellow slip and strongly say why it needs to be sent off to absolve the previous owner of parking, tax, speeding tickets etc. I usually even give them a stamped addressed envelope. You know what? I reckon at least 50% still don't bother.
In this case the OP should write to the DVLA enclosing a copy of the sales invoice stating clearly who it was sold to and when. At the very least this will remove them from the car from now on even if they will not do it retrospectively.
If you think it is bad now with continous regestration, wait until continous insurance comes in.....
FrancisMX5 said:
I phone the dealer and ask WTF is going on, and they tell me they sent the right part of the logbook off, and that the DVLA must have lost it, and they lose a lot of stuff, and that I have to write to them, with a copy of my receipt (long gone) to get it out of my name. I asked them what they do if someone wants to buy it or HPI checks it, and they said they keep the log book that's in my name, and just fill it out to the new owner...now as far as I'm aware, that's illegal? Is that right?
That is correct. The logbook remains in your name with the dealer until the new retail owner buys it. The part which goes off to the DVLA is the yellow slip which puts the car into "trade" status. No SORN is required as the trade status acts as an automatic SORN.The DVLA do lose some stuff, it does happen, but the dealer should have given you the yellow slip to send off. Technically, if you do not receive a letter within 6 weeks informing you that you are no longer responsible for the vehicle then you should contact the DVLA. There isn't really any get out under the current system - the onus is always on on the registered keeper to advise the DVLA they have disposed of the car by whatever means.
markmullen said:
It is your responsibility to send in the yellow slip to notify DVLA that the car is in trade and hence not your responsibilty. It is also perfectly correct that the dealer does not register the car to himself but instead holds the main section of the logbook till he sells the car.
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
The OP has indeed dropped a bRather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a b
k on this one I'm afraid.k. In his naivety it seems he made the tragic mistake of trusting a car dealer to do the right thing and send in the slip off the V5.confused_buyer said:
havoc said:
markmullen said:
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
It is, but every car dealer I've dealt with has said "I'll take care of the v5" - they're schysters who've no intention of doing that.k on this one I'm afraid.So unless the punter actually knows this, they're likely to take the "professional" (sic) at his word...
markmullen said:
It is your responsibility to send in the yellow slip to notify DVLA that the car is in trade and hence not your responsibilty. It is also perfectly correct that the dealer does not register the car to himself but instead holds the main section of the logbook till he sells the car.
Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a bk on this one I'm afraid.
Couldn't agree more. Rather than the dealer shafting you it is you who has dropped a b
k on this one I'm afraid.There's also the fact that the OP would have recieved notification of the car needing to be taxed from the DVLA as they send out the reminder letters.
You should always send the relevant part of the V5 off yourself, I even take a copy of it & keep on file for years after getting awoken in the early hours by BiB, I sold an old van to someone who then went out robbing the same night in it. Fortunately I was able to show them the filled out & signed V5 (i had sold the van on a sunday & was going to drop the envelope in the post next morning). Turns out the chap I sold it to had previous, so they went away.
The following night (2.00 AM) knock on the door again, same thing vehicle registered to me used in a robbery, I was not very polite as I get up for work at 5.00 AM, explained what had happened previous night & perhaps they should speak with their colleauges as I had posted the docs to Swansea & I didn't know the buyers details, fortunately this time they had got the vehicle. Maybe the buyer should have been a Darwin Award nonminee?
Edited for typo
The following night (2.00 AM) knock on the door again, same thing vehicle registered to me used in a robbery, I was not very polite as I get up for work at 5.00 AM, explained what had happened previous night & perhaps they should speak with their colleauges as I had posted the docs to Swansea & I didn't know the buyers details, fortunately this time they had got the vehicle. Maybe the buyer should have been a Darwin Award nonminee?
Edited for typo
Edited by shovelheadrob on Sunday 16th January 10:44
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff