GM 1.9CDTI vs 2.2DTI
Discussion
Im possible looking into getting a 2004+ Saab 93 diesel. My dilemma is whether to go for the 2.2DTI engine or the 1.9CDTI? Both engines were also used by Vauxhall in there models too.
I know the 1.9 is common rail so its better but there seems to be ATLEAST a £800 price difference between the two cars. Im not sure whether its worthing paying the extra. By looking at the figures, the 1.9 is very slightly quicker and has a few better MPG.
I can get a 2004 2.2 Vector sport with 80,000miles for £3200, the same spec car with the 1.9 engine is over £4000.
thanks
I know the 1.9 is common rail so its better but there seems to be ATLEAST a £800 price difference between the two cars. Im not sure whether its worthing paying the extra. By looking at the figures, the 1.9 is very slightly quicker and has a few better MPG.
I can get a 2004 2.2 Vector sport with 80,000miles for £3200, the same spec car with the 1.9 engine is over £4000.
thanks
Don't know much about the 2.2 but I used to have a 1.9cdti (150) in an 05reg Vectra.
Performance and economy wise I couldn't fault it. However, I had quite a few reliability problems, such as the alternator needing replacing at 60000 miles. All things considered I would not get another although I've read that the 120bhp variant of the engine had fewer issues. Maybe a recent car with few miles on the clock would be okay but I suspect a 6 or 7 year old car would be a bit of a gamble.
Performance and economy wise I couldn't fault it. However, I had quite a few reliability problems, such as the alternator needing replacing at 60000 miles. All things considered I would not get another although I've read that the 120bhp variant of the engine had fewer issues. Maybe a recent car with few miles on the clock would be okay but I suspect a 6 or 7 year old car would be a bit of a gamble.
My previous car was on 05 Astra 1.9 120bhp CDTI. I owned it for 6 months. It drove well (i.e. wasn't slow) but the consumption, for a diesel, wasn't great.
During the 6 months (it had 68000 on the clock when I got it) the DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel) started to break but was fixed under warranty. That is the only engine related problem I can think of that I had with this car. Others problems included the locking system becoming faulty, bits falling off the boot and noises from the gearbox and suspension becoming worse (which is why I got rid).
I do know of someone who has an 06 Vectra with the 150 or the 120 CDTI engine. They have just spend over a thousand pounds fixing something on their engine. They've owned the car for a year.
I have heard horror stories of EGR valve and DMF problems. Hoever, every car has faults. I wouldn't want to own a Vauxhall with one of them diesel engines again, but maybe I got the Friday afternoon car.
During the 6 months (it had 68000 on the clock when I got it) the DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel) started to break but was fixed under warranty. That is the only engine related problem I can think of that I had with this car. Others problems included the locking system becoming faulty, bits falling off the boot and noises from the gearbox and suspension becoming worse (which is why I got rid).
I do know of someone who has an 06 Vectra with the 150 or the 120 CDTI engine. They have just spend over a thousand pounds fixing something on their engine. They've owned the car for a year.
I have heard horror stories of EGR valve and DMF problems. Hoever, every car has faults. I wouldn't want to own a Vauxhall with one of them diesel engines again, but maybe I got the Friday afternoon car.
The DTI engine is the old prehistoric GM Diesel engine. Not very powerful (125bhp iirc) very noisy and clattery but is fairly frugal.
The CDTi is the newer diesel common rail engine. As already said 120 & 150bhp variants Normally clear by the Red TI in CDTi on the back. A lot quieter but as with all common rails not as fuel efficient.
The CDTi is more popular as they respond well to the plug-in tuning box modules. ~155bhp for the 120 & ~190bhp for the 150. However when they are tuned the reliability drops somewhat.
The Tuning on the DTi is a remap, more expensive and not as good as the Tuning box for the 120.
If you want a motorway chugger with good mpg then go for the DTi, if you want a quicker car but with reasonable economy then the CDTi.
The economy on both of these will not be amazing as everybody expects a diesel to be as they are large heavy cars. I used to get ~44mpg from my Vectra with a 150bhp engine & Tuning Box.
The CDTi is the newer diesel common rail engine. As already said 120 & 150bhp variants Normally clear by the Red TI in CDTi on the back. A lot quieter but as with all common rails not as fuel efficient.
The CDTi is more popular as they respond well to the plug-in tuning box modules. ~155bhp for the 120 & ~190bhp for the 150. However when they are tuned the reliability drops somewhat.
The Tuning on the DTi is a remap, more expensive and not as good as the Tuning box for the 120.
If you want a motorway chugger with good mpg then go for the DTi, if you want a quicker car but with reasonable economy then the CDTi.
The economy on both of these will not be amazing as everybody expects a diesel to be as they are large heavy cars. I used to get ~44mpg from my Vectra with a 150bhp engine & Tuning Box.
Edited by tim2100 on Thursday 13th January 10:04
The 1.9CDTI is GM's version of the Alfa/Fiat JTDm.
The 16v lump (150hp) has issues with the inlet manifold, when (not if) it fails you're looking £500 for parts and 6-8 hours labour to replace it. They tend to go between 40-80k. The EGR valves are faulty too, and are cheap but annoying to fix.
The 1.9 120hp unit is the best of the bunch, doesn't have the EGR and inlet manifold issues.
The old 2.2DTi is a bit of an antique, run by the Bosch VP44 pump. They're a fragile old thing, both mechanically and electronically (the ECU is bolted to the pump and tends to melt). £1k for a refurb unit including fitting. The turbo is a very early variable vane unit, so can be a bit unreliable, too.
Out of the three, the 120hp is the one to go for. Not sure if Saab used that version of the engine.
The 16v lump (150hp) has issues with the inlet manifold, when (not if) it fails you're looking £500 for parts and 6-8 hours labour to replace it. They tend to go between 40-80k. The EGR valves are faulty too, and are cheap but annoying to fix.
The 1.9 120hp unit is the best of the bunch, doesn't have the EGR and inlet manifold issues.
The old 2.2DTi is a bit of an antique, run by the Bosch VP44 pump. They're a fragile old thing, both mechanically and electronically (the ECU is bolted to the pump and tends to melt). £1k for a refurb unit including fitting. The turbo is a very early variable vane unit, so can be a bit unreliable, too.
Out of the three, the 120hp is the one to go for. Not sure if Saab used that version of the engine.
I dont know about Saabs but I do have a 2005 Vectra 1.9 CDTi SXi 150.
I have done 6,000 miles in around 3 months ownership and apart from an initial service (cambelt etc) all I have had to do is put fuel in it.
It has a DTUK Red Tuning box fitted, and the restrictive collar in the air-box removed.
This massively improved the driveability of the car which is VERY noticeable.
Drive wise and performance wise it holds its own against my BMW 530D Sport.
The Vectra does feel much lighter and as its the SXi it has the same suspension and the SRi, although real-world performance may reveal thet the BMW may be a little quicker at higher speeds - although since I fitted the DTUK box its very, very difficult to tell so cant be sure.
I use the car 600+ miles per week and it is a real pleasure.
The car pulls strongly throughout the gears and without trying for efficient driving, returns me 500 miles to a tank (give or take) and costs around £75 to fill up at these curerent astanomical prices (prob about 500 miles to 55 litres ish @ about 134p a litre).
The 6 Speed gearbox is great and there is masses of torque. It cruises very well and very quietly with the engine packing a punch from low revs, all the way to 4500-5000 rpm. Being a Diesel the torque is lower down, with the turbo cutting in around 2-2.5k. Infact I find that strangely, I love driving it.
All the best,
G.
I have done 6,000 miles in around 3 months ownership and apart from an initial service (cambelt etc) all I have had to do is put fuel in it.
It has a DTUK Red Tuning box fitted, and the restrictive collar in the air-box removed.
This massively improved the driveability of the car which is VERY noticeable.
Drive wise and performance wise it holds its own against my BMW 530D Sport.
The Vectra does feel much lighter and as its the SXi it has the same suspension and the SRi, although real-world performance may reveal thet the BMW may be a little quicker at higher speeds - although since I fitted the DTUK box its very, very difficult to tell so cant be sure.
I use the car 600+ miles per week and it is a real pleasure.
The car pulls strongly throughout the gears and without trying for efficient driving, returns me 500 miles to a tank (give or take) and costs around £75 to fill up at these curerent astanomical prices (prob about 500 miles to 55 litres ish @ about 134p a litre).
The 6 Speed gearbox is great and there is masses of torque. It cruises very well and very quietly with the engine packing a punch from low revs, all the way to 4500-5000 rpm. Being a Diesel the torque is lower down, with the turbo cutting in around 2-2.5k. Infact I find that strangely, I love driving it.
All the best,
G.
325iMSport said:
So it seems the 120 version is the one to get but what sort mpg figures should you get on motorway driving? The official figure is 60 mpg but people only seem to get around 44?
About right. I got 44mpg from my Astra Sporthatch (1.9-150). Both when standard and when remapped to 200hp. The Astra's geared a bit higher than the Vectra and Saab. Take lower gearing and add some weight, I'd say 44mpg is about what you'd get.
Phone any well established Saab dealer and ask them the same question. I'll wager they will all recommend the 2.2 engine. Whilst not as smooth as the 1.9 and slightly noisier it was a much less problematic unit than the fiat/alfa 1.9 engine.
I am by no means technically capable but the 1.9 has a well known inlet manifold problem that is a question of when, not if.
I am by no means technically capable but the 1.9 has a well known inlet manifold problem that is a question of when, not if.
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