Garages see me coming
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm starting to notice a pattern in my car ownership history. Whenever I take a car in to a garage, they can always find some work for a couple of hundred quid to do.
1) Ford fiesta 1997 80k miles or so. Had rubbish brakes, so a garage replaced the brake master cylinder for £200. After I nearly crashed from having no brakes (due to the real unfixed issue) which was the autoadjusters were worn (apparently), they managed to make the brakes work, but poorly.
It took another garage a large sum of money (circa £600) most of which was labour because they diagnosed it wrong, and finally replaced the brake lines.
A wheel bearing went on this fiesta (I could hear it, so fair enough) and took it to a garage. Of course I had to get some part of the rear drum brake replaced because apparently it had been scored while i drove around like a pratt with a damaged wheel bearing.
2) Mx5. I took it for a service, and was told that the front discs and pads need changing. Cha Ching. Happily managed to sail through an MOT a few months later. More months later on, I took it to a garage recommended on this forum, and they said:
1) clutch slave cylinder is weeping and needs to be replaced
2) rear brake calliper needs to be reconditioned, plus new rear pads
3) your rear springs are rusty
I just took a look at the springs, and they are smooth shiny and black, with a little surface rust where they connect to the chassis. This garage did said that 'business was slow'...so should I worry? I'll post some photos at the weekend.
So - due to my poor technical knowledge, which of these repairs sound reasonable to you? Do any sound like the garage was trying to drum up business? And am I too trusting in mechanics?
Cheers all
I'm starting to notice a pattern in my car ownership history. Whenever I take a car in to a garage, they can always find some work for a couple of hundred quid to do.
1) Ford fiesta 1997 80k miles or so. Had rubbish brakes, so a garage replaced the brake master cylinder for £200. After I nearly crashed from having no brakes (due to the real unfixed issue) which was the autoadjusters were worn (apparently), they managed to make the brakes work, but poorly.
It took another garage a large sum of money (circa £600) most of which was labour because they diagnosed it wrong, and finally replaced the brake lines.
A wheel bearing went on this fiesta (I could hear it, so fair enough) and took it to a garage. Of course I had to get some part of the rear drum brake replaced because apparently it had been scored while i drove around like a pratt with a damaged wheel bearing.
2) Mx5. I took it for a service, and was told that the front discs and pads need changing. Cha Ching. Happily managed to sail through an MOT a few months later. More months later on, I took it to a garage recommended on this forum, and they said:
1) clutch slave cylinder is weeping and needs to be replaced
2) rear brake calliper needs to be reconditioned, plus new rear pads
3) your rear springs are rusty
I just took a look at the springs, and they are smooth shiny and black, with a little surface rust where they connect to the chassis. This garage did said that 'business was slow'...so should I worry? I'll post some photos at the weekend.
So - due to my poor technical knowledge, which of these repairs sound reasonable to you? Do any sound like the garage was trying to drum up business? And am I too trusting in mechanics?
Cheers all
They don't seem particularly reasonable, no.
What I'd do in the circumstances, maybe get them to have a look, and say ok, I'll get a second opinion and go and find somewhere else to have a look.
Maybe you're just unlucky with cars though? I know the MX5 I owned was definitely a Friday car - with its broken electric aerial, faulty ABS (which thankfully didn't result in an accident), and other stupid little things. And I took my dad who is an experienced mechanic with me when I viewed it, and he saw nothing wrong either.
Some cars can just be unlucky
Oh and with regards to the clutch slave cylinder, my friend's MX5 has the same problem and he hasnt bothered to fix it with no untoward effects - I don't think this one should be a priority.
As for the brake caliper - is it hot after a drive, can you feel any difference in the drive?
I have a feeling they're just trying to shaft you - get a second opinion, see if an independent notice anything
What I'd do in the circumstances, maybe get them to have a look, and say ok, I'll get a second opinion and go and find somewhere else to have a look.
Maybe you're just unlucky with cars though? I know the MX5 I owned was definitely a Friday car - with its broken electric aerial, faulty ABS (which thankfully didn't result in an accident), and other stupid little things. And I took my dad who is an experienced mechanic with me when I viewed it, and he saw nothing wrong either.
Some cars can just be unlucky
Oh and with regards to the clutch slave cylinder, my friend's MX5 has the same problem and he hasnt bothered to fix it with no untoward effects - I don't think this one should be a priority.
As for the brake caliper - is it hot after a drive, can you feel any difference in the drive?
I have a feeling they're just trying to shaft you - get a second opinion, see if an independent notice anything
Edited by CatfishCKY on Thursday 6th January 23:50
Brakes are a quick win for any garage and they rely on people knowing nothing about pad wear etc.
Your best bet is to develop a long term relationship with a garage. The one I use for my daily drivers is on an industrial estate and the guy who runs is a great mechanic and he knows that I know a lot about the cars I drive. I wouldnt want to fix them but I know how to identify and diagnose problems.
He knows that if he tells me something needs doing the next words out of my mouth will be 'stick it on the ramp and show me', so I dont get taken for a ride. Also it helps to spend some time on forums getting to know the problem areas for the car you a driving. Then when something comes up most often you can say with authority exactly what is up and how to fix it and therefore instruct the garage to ensure only the work that needs doing is carried out.
Your best bet is to develop a long term relationship with a garage. The one I use for my daily drivers is on an industrial estate and the guy who runs is a great mechanic and he knows that I know a lot about the cars I drive. I wouldnt want to fix them but I know how to identify and diagnose problems.
He knows that if he tells me something needs doing the next words out of my mouth will be 'stick it on the ramp and show me', so I dont get taken for a ride. Also it helps to spend some time on forums getting to know the problem areas for the car you a driving. Then when something comes up most often you can say with authority exactly what is up and how to fix it and therefore instruct the garage to ensure only the work that needs doing is carried out.
Do you use different garages everytime?
I've used the same trusted local independant for the last 7 years (since I gave up company cars) to service and MOT my motor, the wifes and the toy car.
I've also regularly asked them to service or MOT random winter 4x4's, sheds, vans etc. Never felt they've made up work, they've even said doesn't need doing to things like brake fluid change on a year old Seat (main dealer had suggested it was a requirement).
Only once did they fail to sort out a problem, resulting in me taking it to another garage. Turned out to be a broken wire in an in tank floating high pressure fuel pump in a v8 BMW E39. Would work when full, but as the level dropped the wire bent, conductor moved apart and it stopped pumping gas. Needed the interior stripping out to find the entry to the tank, and a replacement pump fitting at £££'s.
I've used the same trusted local independant for the last 7 years (since I gave up company cars) to service and MOT my motor, the wifes and the toy car.
I've also regularly asked them to service or MOT random winter 4x4's, sheds, vans etc. Never felt they've made up work, they've even said doesn't need doing to things like brake fluid change on a year old Seat (main dealer had suggested it was a requirement).
Only once did they fail to sort out a problem, resulting in me taking it to another garage. Turned out to be a broken wire in an in tank floating high pressure fuel pump in a v8 BMW E39. Would work when full, but as the level dropped the wire bent, conductor moved apart and it stopped pumping gas. Needed the interior stripping out to find the entry to the tank, and a replacement pump fitting at £££'s.
Wise words. I have previously been dissuaded from asking for 'proof' because it makes it look like i dont trust them. But I think i shall follow your advice.
Also, i sound a bit posh - do you think it would help i had an east london accent? Do garages rip off posh people because they know they can pay?
Also, i sound a bit posh - do you think it would help i had an east london accent? Do garages rip off posh people because they know they can pay?
Nah, honestly ask for the proof - if they get all defensive then you say 'Fine I'll head to another garage to get their opinion.' Don't let them take you for a ride.
I don't think accent should have anything to do with it - I'm quite well-spoken, and the only garage that's attempted to rip me off was National. I went in there to get the wheels balanced, and went off to Tescos while they did that. Came back and they had drew up an invoice for me, for two Avon tyres costing £70 (for 1 litre Micra FFS) saying I needed 2 front tyres and I should consider it. I just said 'No, I'll pay for the balancing, and get my dad to give me a second opinion on whether I need the tyres, thankyouverymuch.' That shut them up.
I don't think accent should have anything to do with it - I'm quite well-spoken, and the only garage that's attempted to rip me off was National. I went in there to get the wheels balanced, and went off to Tescos while they did that. Came back and they had drew up an invoice for me, for two Avon tyres costing £70 (for 1 litre Micra FFS) saying I needed 2 front tyres and I should consider it. I just said 'No, I'll pay for the balancing, and get my dad to give me a second opinion on whether I need the tyres, thankyouverymuch.' That shut them up.
Chat technical with them. If they know you know what you're talking about then they will...
a) Go into more detail about problems in the knowledge that you will understand
b) Know that they can't fob you off (if it crossed their minds)
c) Realise that there's a likelihood you'll do the work yourself or take it to a specialist
Builds a bit of a relationship with the garage if you show an interest.
a) Go into more detail about problems in the knowledge that you will understand
b) Know that they can't fob you off (if it crossed their minds)
c) Realise that there's a likelihood you'll do the work yourself or take it to a specialist
Builds a bit of a relationship with the garage if you show an interest.
The trick I've had a few times is that they phone me up 5 hours after I drop it off and say 'its going to need xyz, it will be about £££'. I'm usually at work, and need the car for a weekend and don't have the time to get to the garage before they close....Kinda leaves me up a creek!
We tend to stick to one 'normal' garage that we've found is quite trustful and polite, then also a specialist that we've found and tend to go to for more 'specialist' work i.e. services etc.
Some garages, or rather the mechanics Ive found though tend to get a hump on if you talk technical to them, in a 'you can't bulls**t me' kind of way. Especially the ones that think they know best because they have 'qualifications' and also they hate internet forums. I occasionally said, 'I'm on XYZ forum and the knowledgeable owners on there have said theese problem areas could be at fault. The mechanic normally just belittles it, without giving me any actual reason why to discount thing, and being an engineer myself I like to know why to discount something rather than be told it just is.
Some garages, or rather the mechanics Ive found though tend to get a hump on if you talk technical to them, in a 'you can't bulls**t me' kind of way. Especially the ones that think they know best because they have 'qualifications' and also they hate internet forums. I occasionally said, 'I'm on XYZ forum and the knowledgeable owners on there have said theese problem areas could be at fault. The mechanic normally just belittles it, without giving me any actual reason why to discount thing, and being an engineer myself I like to know why to discount something rather than be told it just is.
)A nice video which I think represents the relationship between Garages and customers...
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2008/honesty-me...
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2008/honesty-me...
The clutch slave cylinder on my mx5 was leaking - resulted in the clutch engaging about an inch off the floor - I expect it would eventually have ended up not being able to disengage at all.
I'd keep an eye on the hydraulic fluid level in the clutch bottle (a little square bottle attached to the bulkhead on the driver's side). Maybe mark the level with a pen and see if it goes down. Or you could crawl under the car and see if the clutch slave cylinder is wet - it's accessible via the driver's side wheel arch.
I wouldn't worry about rusty springs either, mine were very rusty and got through a load of MOTs (although my rear offside spring snapped fairly recently, so keep an eye on them).
I'd keep an eye on the hydraulic fluid level in the clutch bottle (a little square bottle attached to the bulkhead on the driver's side). Maybe mark the level with a pen and see if it goes down. Or you could crawl under the car and see if the clutch slave cylinder is wet - it's accessible via the driver's side wheel arch.
I wouldn't worry about rusty springs either, mine were very rusty and got through a load of MOTs (although my rear offside spring snapped fairly recently, so keep an eye on them).
Edited by Mellow Matt on Friday 7th January 07:42
Slave cylinders are quite well known for breaking down on the MX5, as are the rear calipers.
I had to strip ours down and re-grease the sliders and replace the pads as one had been sticking.
MX5 parts sell replacement slave cylinders for as little as £15, or a genuine Mazda one for around £50, likewise a rear caliper seal kit is £15.
I had to strip ours down and re-grease the sliders and replace the pads as one had been sticking.
MX5 parts sell replacement slave cylinders for as little as £15, or a genuine Mazda one for around £50, likewise a rear caliper seal kit is £15.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Of course trying to act like you know more than them isn't a good idea, thats no way to make friends. But I find that saying a couple of things like 'whats your opinion on the lower wishbone bushes?' 'while you were under it did you see anything wrong with x y z?' shows that you're asking for their professional opinion while showing that you know about the car.alephnull said:
1) Ford fiesta 1997 80k miles or so. Had rubbish brakes, so a garage replaced the brake master cylinder for £200. After I nearly crashed from having no brakes (due to the real unfixed issue) which was the autoadjusters were worn (apparently), they managed to make the brakes work, but poorly.
It took another garage a large sum of money (circa £600) most of which was labour because they diagnosed it wrong, and finally replaced the brake lines.
First garage was lousy from the sound of it. Don't quite understand what you're saying about the second one, but brake lines can be labour intensive (and therefore expensive) on any car.It took another garage a large sum of money (circa £600) most of which was labour because they diagnosed it wrong, and finally replaced the brake lines.
alephnull said:
A wheel bearing went on this fiesta (I could hear it, so fair enough) and took it to a garage. Of course I had to get some part of the rear drum brake replaced because apparently it had been scored while i drove around like a pratt with a damaged wheel bearing.
This one is reasonable.alephnull said:
2) Mx5. I took it for a service, and was told that the front discs and pads need changing. Cha Ching. Happily managed to sail through an MOT a few months later.
Doesn't actually mean they don't need changing. The MOT only tests the car for basic safety standards, so although your car might pass the test there is no guarantee that the engine won't blow up on the way home. Your brakes only have to work sufficiently to pass an MOT.
And they WILL work, right up until they wear so thin that they don't. It's entirely possible that they're currently within the "time to change them" and "omg my brakes don't work" stages.
You can check your brakes quite easily yourself though - look through the spokes and see if the discs have a lip worn into them at the edge. And if you can be bothered, take a wheel off and have a look at the thickness of the brake pads (it does help if you know how thick they are when new though).
alephnull said:
More months later on, I took it to a garage recommended on this forum, and they said:
1) clutch slave cylinder is weeping and needs to be replaced
2) rear brake calliper needs to be reconditioned, plus new rear pads
3) your rear springs are rusty
1) Common fault. Mine failed altogether, which is really boring when you're in a traffic jam and suddenly can't select a gear. It might weep forever and never fail, but for a hundred quid or so it's worth having a new one fitted for peace of mind.1) clutch slave cylinder is weeping and needs to be replaced
2) rear brake calliper needs to be reconditioned, plus new rear pads
3) your rear springs are rusty
2) Another common fault. If they're sticking on at all, your rear pads WILL be wearing thin. Both of mine have been done....again, worth it for peace of mind.
3) Means nothing, unless they're starting to deform (which is pretty extreme rust). I wouldn't worry about it.
alephnull said:
Do any sound like the garage was trying to drum up business? And am I too trusting in mechanics?
They do sound like they might be, but at the same time your car might need the work - and even if it doesn't need calipers, a slave cylinder, and pads & discs today, it definitely will in the future.If you have no mechanical knowledge or ability you do need to be able to trust your mechanic, so you're not too trusting - but you do need to find one who proves himself to be deserving of your trust.
One trick to try and keep mechanics on the straight and narrow with you is to insist on having the old parts back when they change things like brake pads and discs...but again you've got to know what you're looking at so you can tell whether they're actually worn out and whether they even came off your car.
Does this crap still go on at garages these days? I thought they were all much better now. Seems the spirit of Arfur Daley is still alive and well.
Not helpful to the op I know, but I've avoided this kind of rubbish by doing my own cars and bikes on my driveway for years. It really pays to learn mechanics, and it's fun too (well, kinda!)
And for the big jobs I can't tackle on my drive, I come to PH for recommendations.
When I call I tell them where the recommendation came from and that I will be posting about their great service after the job's done.
Then when I turn up I make it clear after about 5 minutes that I know what I'm talking about with my car, and am very specific about the job in hand.
Never had a problem because of this. I guess it's tempting for specialists to take advantage of the ignorant. Read up first!
Not helpful to the op I know, but I've avoided this kind of rubbish by doing my own cars and bikes on my driveway for years. It really pays to learn mechanics, and it's fun too (well, kinda!)
And for the big jobs I can't tackle on my drive, I come to PH for recommendations.
When I call I tell them where the recommendation came from and that I will be posting about their great service after the job's done.
Then when I turn up I make it clear after about 5 minutes that I know what I'm talking about with my car, and am very specific about the job in hand.
Never had a problem because of this. I guess it's tempting for specialists to take advantage of the ignorant. Read up first!
Thanks for the comments all. So...from the top. a) No I am not a girl. b) Sadly driveways in London are expensive and I dont have one to fix cars on c) How come so many people know what aleph-null is? You are just as nerdy as I am. d) Glad to hear some of the repairs at least made sense.
c) How come so many people know what aleph-null is? You are just as nerdy as I am. d) Glad to hear some of the repairs at least made sense.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff