Claiming on AA battery warranty
Discussion
About a year ago I suffered a flat battery in the E30 which left my stranded (to the extent that even the central locking wouldn't work and the clock stopped). Unfortunately being central London (where no-one helps anyone else) I was unable to get it jump started, as such the AA had to be called.
The AA guy did the usual testing (battery was properly flat!), with the battery booster managed to get it started. Anyway, to cut a long story short I asked whether he had an replacement in the back of the van because I genuinely needed the car to be reliable for the next couple of weeks (a few important trips).
One was purchaed and fitted and the car has been fine ever since...until Thursday.
Flat again (although the electrics worked, just wouldn't start), which was surprising as the car started with no issues during the exceptional cold and snow. Managed to jump start off my sister's Ford Ka and off I went on a return trip to Stansted. I assumed this trip would have been enough to charge the battery fully.
Left the car over the weekend and planned to give my girlfriend a lift back to her flat on Monday evening - shock horror - flat (essentially 4 days stationary). Properly flat. No central locking, no alarm flash, clock stopped. Luckily my cousin was in the locality and we managed to jump start again.
So, looks like the battery is buggered. Iirc, the AA battery (Unipart
) has a 3 year warranty but how do I go about claiming? Do I literally need to wait for the next time for it to go flat, call the AA and show the AA guy the paperwork and get a replacement? That is somewhat of an inconvenient way of doing things as I'd really like a new battery now to prevent getting stranded somewhere again!
The AA guy did the usual testing (battery was properly flat!), with the battery booster managed to get it started. Anyway, to cut a long story short I asked whether he had an replacement in the back of the van because I genuinely needed the car to be reliable for the next couple of weeks (a few important trips).
One was purchaed and fitted and the car has been fine ever since...until Thursday.
Flat again (although the electrics worked, just wouldn't start), which was surprising as the car started with no issues during the exceptional cold and snow. Managed to jump start off my sister's Ford Ka and off I went on a return trip to Stansted. I assumed this trip would have been enough to charge the battery fully.
Left the car over the weekend and planned to give my girlfriend a lift back to her flat on Monday evening - shock horror - flat (essentially 4 days stationary). Properly flat. No central locking, no alarm flash, clock stopped. Luckily my cousin was in the locality and we managed to jump start again.
So, looks like the battery is buggered. Iirc, the AA battery (Unipart
) has a 3 year warranty but how do I go about claiming? Do I literally need to wait for the next time for it to go flat, call the AA and show the AA guy the paperwork and get a replacement? That is somewhat of an inconvenient way of doing things as I'd really like a new battery now to prevent getting stranded somewhere again!Unfortunately, I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting that battery replaced under warranty, my company certainly wouldn't give you one - your battery died, fair enough, maybe it was old, but it was comprehensively flattened which is odd. If your car manages to comprehensively flatten a new battery, something tells me that new battery is not the problem!
Modern battery testers can tell you what the cause of the loss of charge is, they pick up cell short-circuits and other manufacturing faults that would constitute a warranty claim. In this case, it seems your car is eating batteries for whatever reason, so don't be too surprised if a warranty claim attempt amounts to nothing. Unlucky, really take that battery out and let it trickle charge for 24hrs, then stand another 24, it might recover so you haven't wasted your money on it.
Modern battery testers can tell you what the cause of the loss of charge is, they pick up cell short-circuits and other manufacturing faults that would constitute a warranty claim. In this case, it seems your car is eating batteries for whatever reason, so don't be too surprised if a warranty claim attempt amounts to nothing. Unlucky, really
take that battery out and let it trickle charge for 24hrs, then stand another 24, it might recover so you haven't wasted your money on it.Battery new since Oct 2010 and without issue.
@Maniac - I'm assuming the alternator is working, certainly the dash light has not illuminated.
Tried to start the car again this afternoon - flat (but dash lights up, clock still working, central locking ok etc). As such, unable to check if alternator working ok.
Yes the alarm is aftermarket, but has never caused any issues previously. Car has been sat for over 2 weeks without starting issues and as mentioned, over the snow was sat for a week without use and started first time when required. In actual fact, I had used the car the day before (Tesco trip) it failed to start for the return Stansted trip.
Put the voltmeter across the battery - registered 11V, went down to 9 on trying to start the car.
Will call the AA out tomorrow and see what their diagnosis is (and hopefully new battery!).
@Maniac - I'm assuming the alternator is working, certainly the dash light has not illuminated.
Tried to start the car again this afternoon - flat (but dash lights up, clock still working, central locking ok etc).
As such, unable to check if alternator working ok.Yes the alarm is aftermarket, but has never caused any issues previously. Car has been sat for over 2 weeks without starting issues and as mentioned, over the snow was sat for a week without use and started first time when required. In actual fact, I had used the car the day before (Tesco trip) it failed to start for the return Stansted trip.
Put the voltmeter across the battery - registered 11V, went down to 9 on trying to start the car.
Will call the AA out tomorrow and see what their diagnosis is (and hopefully new battery!).
Edited by g3org3y on Monday 3rd January 15:51
Here's how it works, Ring the AA if the battery is flat again. They will come and test the battery. If the battery fails it will be replaced there and then if the patrol has one on the van (if he hasn't got one he will either go get one if it's close by or arrange for a battery assist patrol to bring one to you).
If it passes the battery test the patrol will check your alternator is working and also check for any current drains that could have caused the battery to be drained.
It's that simple.
If it passes the battery test the patrol will check your alternator is working and also check for any current drains that could have caused the battery to be drained.
It's that simple.
wolf1 said:
Here's how it works, Ring the AA if the battery is flat again. They will come and test the battery. If the battery fails it will be replaced there and then if the patrol has one on the van (if he hasn't got one he will either go get one if it's close by or arrange for a battery assist patrol to bring one to you).
If it passes the battery test the patrol will check your alternator is working and also check for any current drains that could have caused the battery to be drained.
It's that simple.
AA came today (car completely flat after 2 days).If it passes the battery test the patrol will check your alternator is working and also check for any current drains that could have caused the battery to be drained.
It's that simple.
Plugged in his 'battery pack' to the battery and it started first time. Apparently did some kind of check and was of the opinion that the battery was fine and that there was a drain somewhere.
The alternator was not checked (I didn't think to ask d'oh). A very rudimentary look around showed that no lights seemed to be on in the boot or the interior. He suggested to take the car to a garage to locate the drain.
Taken the car for a drive in an attempt to charge the battery - now currently sitting outside with the battery disconnected.
How does one go about locating drains? Any help much appreciated!
g3org3y said:
How does one go about locating drains? Any help much appreciated!
A tool like this might help.http://www.tools-draper.co.uk/index.php?main_page=...
It goes in place of the fuse and tells you how much current is being drawn on that circuit.
You can buy them cheaper, I just needed a quick link.
Did some tests...
Direct across the battery (scale 7), after a drive showing approx 12 V
Meter changed to Amps (Scale 3) - 'Battery Leakage Current'
Wired up in series:
Apparent drain (deep into excessive leakage zone ~ 0.2A):
Drain increases when door opened (which would illuminate interior light) (leakage now 0.5A)
When compared to the Ford Ka
Drain is minimal (0.01A)
Removed all the fuses and relays, and none made a difference. Any ideas?
Is the 'excessive leakage' 0.2A sufficient to drain a battery flat in 2 days?
If not (and let's assume for a second it is a battery issue), would that level of leakage be acceptable for an alarm/immob combo?
Direct across the battery (scale 7), after a drive showing approx 12 V
Meter changed to Amps (Scale 3) - 'Battery Leakage Current'
Wired up in series:
Apparent drain (deep into excessive leakage zone ~ 0.2A):
Drain increases when door opened (which would illuminate interior light) (leakage now 0.5A)
When compared to the Ford Ka
Drain is minimal (0.01A)
Removed all the fuses and relays, and none made a difference. Any ideas?
Is the 'excessive leakage' 0.2A sufficient to drain a battery flat in 2 days?
If not (and let's assume for a second it is a battery issue), would that level of leakage be acceptable for an alarm/immob combo?
Edited by g3org3y on Tuesday 4th January 17:10
One more question (apologies). When wired up as above in series (either via the positive or the negative terminal), when the door was opened, the drain would increase as shown on the multimeter. The actual interior light would not illuminate. Likewise for the boot or glovebox light.
My gut feeling is that it's an alarm issue and I was wanting to change various settings while the meter was attached to see the difference - given that the car acts as though the battery is completely flat with the meter connected in series, this is not possible. Note that as soon as the meter is removed from the equation and the terminals reconnected again normally, the alarm LED illuminates and all the lights illuminate appropriately (interior, glovebox etc).
What am I doing wrong?
To clarify some maths...(which is probably wrong):
The battery is rated at 64A/h which I'm assuming means it 'discharges' 1A for 64 hours. It will thus discharge 0.1A for 640 hours. With the result we have on the multimeter as the apparent drain (0.2A), this would suggest with a fully charged new battery, it would take 320 to drain to flat?
Could it be the drain has always been there but the cold weather (and lack of use) affected the battery to the extent that it cannot sustain the drain. My daily commute is typically a 60 mile round trip (all motorway) which perhaps would give sufficient charge via the alternator to offset the drain.
Unfortunately, in these matters I am somewhat clueless, as such any help would be great!
My gut feeling is that it's an alarm issue and I was wanting to change various settings while the meter was attached to see the difference - given that the car acts as though the battery is completely flat with the meter connected in series, this is not possible. Note that as soon as the meter is removed from the equation and the terminals reconnected again normally, the alarm LED illuminates and all the lights illuminate appropriately (interior, glovebox etc).
What am I doing wrong?
To clarify some maths...(which is probably wrong):
The battery is rated at 64A/h which I'm assuming means it 'discharges' 1A for 64 hours. It will thus discharge 0.1A for 640 hours. With the result we have on the multimeter as the apparent drain (0.2A), this would suggest with a fully charged new battery, it would take 320 to drain to flat?
Could it be the drain has always been there but the cold weather (and lack of use) affected the battery to the extent that it cannot sustain the drain. My daily commute is typically a 60 mile round trip (all motorway) which perhaps would give sufficient charge via the alternator to offset the drain.
Unfortunately, in these matters I am somewhat clueless, as such any help would be great!
0.2 amps is acceptable and wouldn't drain the battery over 2 days (anything more and you'll need to locate which circuit is drawing power by isolating them one by one usually by removing one fuse at a time and then replacing it until you find the circuit).
Did he attatch a largeish hand held device which looked like this to test the battery? If not call them out again to test the battery.
As for the drain keep the ammeter attatched and lock the car. Keep an eye on it for a while (10-15mins) and see if it spikes higher that 0.2 amps. Also you can test the alternator yourself by starting the car and measuring the voltage at the battery, should be between roughly 13.5 and 14.5 volts
Did he attatch a largeish hand held device which looked like this to test the battery? If not call them out again to test the battery.
As for the drain keep the ammeter attatched and lock the car. Keep an eye on it for a while (10-15mins) and see if it spikes higher that 0.2 amps. Also you can test the alternator yourself by starting the car and measuring the voltage at the battery, should be between roughly 13.5 and 14.5 volts
Thanks for the input. 
He had one box which apparently acted as a battery pack (when connected car started instantly) and he printed a 'Battery Test' which states:
BATTERY TEST
CHARGE & RETEST
Volts: 7,86V
Measured 6EN(A)
Rating 640 EN(A)
Battery Type - Regular Flooded
Bat. Loc - In Vehicle
Application - Automotive
Charge State - Before Charge
The volts seem somewhat on the low side!
Will check the alternator first thing tomorrow morning.
The thing of note is that with the ammeter plugged in series (either via the positive or negative terminal - makes no difference), the car acts as though no battery is attached despite the evident drain i.e. I open the door, drain goes up but the actual interior light does not illuminate. Am I doing something wrong.
Clifford manual suggests an armed drain of 20mA (0.02A), so mine is ten times greater! If I could locate the fuses for the alarm, I'd be able to check the drain - of course given it's an aftermarket, I'm assuming they are cunning placed to prevent thieves from locating them.
Reading around on the net, it does appear that 200mA would be considered a significant drain. Shouldn't be more than 50mA apparently.
He had one box which apparently acted as a battery pack (when connected car started instantly) and he printed a 'Battery Test' which states:
BATTERY TEST
CHARGE & RETEST
Volts: 7,86V
Measured 6EN(A)
Rating 640 EN(A)
Battery Type - Regular Flooded
Bat. Loc - In Vehicle
Application - Automotive
Charge State - Before Charge
The volts seem somewhat on the low side!
Will check the alternator first thing tomorrow morning.
The thing of note is that with the ammeter plugged in series (either via the positive or negative terminal - makes no difference), the car acts as though no battery is attached despite the evident drain i.e. I open the door, drain goes up but the actual interior light does not illuminate. Am I doing something wrong.
Clifford manual suggests an armed drain of 20mA (0.02A), so mine is ten times greater! If I could locate the fuses for the alarm, I'd be able to check the drain - of course given it's an aftermarket, I'm assuming they are cunning placed to prevent thieves from locating them.
Reading around on the net, it does appear that 200mA would be considered a significant drain. Shouldn't be more than 50mA apparently.
According to the AA website - the conclusion of the report is 'CHARGE & RETEST'
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/breakdown_adv...
Am I expected to charge the battery up (long drive) and then give them a call to come back and retest!?
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/breakdown_adv...
Am I expected to charge the battery up (long drive) and then give them a call to come back and retest!?
The patrol should have restarted the car and run it again for 5 to 10 mins and done another test on the battery to gain a definative result. The midtronics tester can test at low voltage but it will sometimes require the battery to be charged up a bit more for it to gain an accurate result.
My advice is re connect the battery and see if it starts in the morning, if it doesn't then call them out again and get whoever comes to do a full test on the battery.
My advice is re connect the battery and see if it starts in the morning, if it doesn't then call them out again and get whoever comes to do a full test on the battery.
Yuo haven't done the most important test yet (I don't think?) - read the voltage across the battery with the engine running. You should see something like 14.5 volts.
Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
ETA: Either way, a car battery is not supposed to be deep discharged like that. Leaving it in a discharged state will permanently destroy it.
Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
ETA: Either way, a car battery is not supposed to be deep discharged like that. Leaving it in a discharged state will permanently destroy it.
Edited by Dr Doofenshmirtz on Tuesday 4th January 21:46
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Yuo haven't done the most important test yet (I don't think?) - read the voltage across the battery with the engine running. You should see something like 14.5 volts.
Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
I know - *facepalm*. Will do it first thing tomorrow (I've left the battery disconnected overnight so hopefully won't discharge).Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
Checked all the bulbs - boot, interior, glovebox, there isn't one under the bonnet.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Yuo haven't done the most important test yet (I don't think?) - read the voltage across the battery with the engine running. You should see something like 14.5 volts.
Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
ETA: Either way, a car battery is not supposed to be deep discharged like that. Leaving it in a discharged state will permanently destroy it.
Update - had to get out in the cold and get the figures, don't think I would have been able to sleep tonight otherwise!!Next, switch the lights and heater blower on max - you should still be getting around 14 volts.
If it drops below 12 volts with the engine running - your alternator is 100% definitely shot.
A good fully charged battery will often read around 13 volts on the bench with no load.
200mA is a lot of drain really. An automotive relay will typically draw that amount of current...or maybe a courtesy light bulb in the boot?
ETA: Either way, a car battery is not supposed to be deep discharged like that. Leaving it in a discharged state will permanently destroy it.
Edited by Dr Doofenshmirtz on Tuesday 4th January 21:46
Some updated values (using scale 6).
At idle - car is approx 13.5V
At idle with load (i.e. fan on max, main beams on) drop massively to just over 12
With some rev, despite the load, voltage goes back up to approx 13V.
Keep the revs, remove the load - back to 13.5V
Is this suggesting alternator issues (as the markings on the scale would indicate)?
Edited by g3org3y on Tuesday 4th January 22:58
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I suspect you have a duff alternator then.
As a comparison (and to confirm the meter is reasonably accurate), go check the Ka's readings.
Will do later on. In addition, will disconnect the alternator and see if that affects the drain reading.As a comparison (and to confirm the meter is reasonably accurate), go check the Ka's readings.
I really wanted to get the fuses out of the Clifford to compare the drain value, unfortunately, I have no idea where to start looking for them (I'm assuming fairly cunningly hidden).
Alternators seem VERY expensive at Euro Car Parts (even with trading of the old one), more reasonable at GSF though. Hate to think was a brand new BMW OE alternator would be from the dealer!
g3org3y said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I suspect you have a duff alternator then.
As a comparison (and to confirm the meter is reasonably accurate), go check the Ka's readings.
Will do later on. In addition, will disconnect the alternator and see if that affects the drain reading.As a comparison (and to confirm the meter is reasonably accurate), go check the Ka's readings.
I really wanted to get the fuses out of the Clifford to compare the drain value, unfortunately, I have no idea where to start looking for them (I'm assuming fairly cunningly hidden).
Alternators seem VERY expensive at Euro Car Parts (even with trading of the old one), more reasonable at GSF though. Hate to think was a brand new BMW OE alternator would be from the dealer!
It could also be the brushes (easy to check) or the rectifier...but most likely the regulator.
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