OK so this is getting a bit silly...

OK so this is getting a bit silly...

Author
Discussion

Facefirst

Original Poster:

1,412 posts

179 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Hello all,

Some of you may remember that I've been having some aggro with a car I bought from a dealer last month (thread here: http://tinyurl.com/38du8rk). To sum up, the headlamps don't work properly due to not self-leveling (an MOT requirement) and the car is too dangerous to drive in the dark. I phoned the guy and he has agreed to fix the lamps.

However...

This has been going on for a month and a bit now, with him saying he can't find the part. I suggested that I bring the car back to him for a refund because it isn't fit for purpose, to which he had replied 'I don't buy back cars'. He has offered to take it back IF I take something else from him, but he doesn't have anything in stock that I want (or can afford to be honest).

What are my rights here? How long is reasonable for him to have to fix the issue?

Thanks in advance!

FF

Mazdarese

21,044 posts

192 months

Friday 12th November 2010
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I think you need to try the Citizen's Advice Bureau. It's clear that he's just going to keep talking crap until your six months 'protection' are up. If you can pay £100 to get a solicitor to send a letter, it might be a worthy investment.

HellDiver

5,708 posts

187 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
He won't be buying the car back. He'll be taking a faulty car back and giving a refund.

C8PPO

19,835 posts

208 months

Friday 12th November 2010
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"'I don't buy back cars'" is a different matter to "I have a legal obligation to refund on an item not suitable for purpose"

mbooth83

11 posts

176 months

Friday 12th November 2010
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If you read up on the sale of goods act I think you will find you have to give them a reasonable opportunity to fix the problem, which it sounds like you have done. If it is not fixed or fit for purpose then you are entitled to a refund.

I had a similar issue earlier this year and gave the garage three chances to fix it without success so they agreed to a full refund.

Facefirst

Original Poster:

1,412 posts

179 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
I'll push for a refund but he seems to be hitting me all kinds of random ideas like:

I only have a 28 day warranty for engine and gearbox and the lights are his good grace
I can swap the car for something else from him
I can be sent the parts and fix it myself

How do I proceed do you think?

HellDiver

5,708 posts

187 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Sale of Goods Act is quite clear. If it's not suitable for use, then buyer can demand a full refund upon return of faulty item.

Matt UK

17,931 posts

205 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Facefirst said:
This has been going on for a month and a bit now, with him saying he can't find the part.
Facefirst said:
I'll push for a refund but he seems to be hitting me all kinds of random ideas like:
I can be sent the parts and fix it myself
confused

Facefirst

Original Poster:

1,412 posts

179 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Yeah, annoying.

'can't find the part' really means 'can't find a cheap enough part' so I'll give him another week and see what gives.

Or should I just get on the case right away?

Variomatic

2,392 posts

166 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
On the case right away, go to Trading Standards.

A car must be roadworthy for you to drive it and the lack of self-levelling (I assume Hid lights?) means it isn't. Which means you're (technically) committing an offence if you use it - a car you can't use legally is pretty clearly not fit for purpose!

Assuming the lights were like that when he sold it, he's actually committed a criminal offence by selling it. It's a fairly obscure one so Police won't be interested but there is case law out there to establish that the fact the car has an MOT is not enough - it must be roadworthy at the time of sale (possibly hard to prove depending on the reason for the fault).

There's also the potential problem, if it was a new MOT at sale, that someone's failed to inspect it properly. In which case if the MOT is less than 28 (working, I believe?) days ago, contact VOSA. Whoever tests for him (probably at a reduced rate) may not be too happy being dropped in the sh*t because of his attitude.

mcford

819 posts

179 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Any form of levelling, be it automatic or manual is not a requirement of the MOT, so persuing an MOT appeal through VOSA will not be productive. The only MOT requirements for headlamps are that they work, are clean and are aimed correctly on a static check. Automatic self levelling is a requirement for xenon headlamps either through the type approval process or the construction and use regulations.

Variomatic

2,392 posts

166 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Yep, fair play - I thought they'd included it recently but just checked the manual and they haven't. Doesn't alter the fact that an Hid equipped car without it working isn't legally roadworthy though (and is damn annoying for anyone appraoching / in front!)smile

holderd

13 posts

166 months

Friday 12th November 2010
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Have a read of this and quote the bits you need: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights

The gearbox packed in on my A3 about 4 months into my ownership. I had to do my research but in the end the Sale of Goods Act really saved my bacon (and the best part of £1000). Your dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Put it all in writing and give them a deadline to

1. Fix the problem
2. or give you a full refund.

If they don't do either take it to trading standards.

Facefirst

Original Poster:

1,412 posts

179 months

Thursday 25th November 2010
quotequote all
Hello all,

Really (really) sorry to dig this back up, but this is where I am:

The car has been back with the dealer for a week. He says the headlamps are now aimed at the right level, but that the light is still on the dash.

This isn't acceptable to me but has he done his bit? What shall I do?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

Jo Po

175 posts

166 months

Thursday 25th November 2010
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All he's done is adjusted them manually hence the dash light on because the part is still faulty.

Tell him its not your issue but then again he sounds like the type of guy who will remove the bulb for that warning light.

Demand a refund.

rallycross

13,188 posts

242 months

Friday 26th November 2010
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Its not quite as easy as some people on here telling you to quote SOGA and get your money back.

Its a long process and its going to cost you a lot of time, aggro and some money along the way to take him to court, and the outcome is not guaranteed, and it will take months. And he knows this.

If he has offered to source you another car and take it back it may be easier than forcing him to fix it. But if you like the car wouldnt you rather keep it and put up with the warning light on the dash?

Its an old car, and its not as major a fault as you seem to be making it out to be.

Its quite an exaggeration to say its undriveable / unroadworthy.

A205GTI

750 posts

171 months

Friday 26th November 2010
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Why dont you get him to pay for the main dealer to look at, It might need to be plugged in to reset, or is he worried they might find more faults? Or tell him you are doing this and billing him. But get written agreement first.

oldcynic

2,166 posts

166 months

Friday 26th November 2010
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Were you sold a legal assistance helpline with your car or house insurance? Call them and run through the details. They will hopefully give you the wording along the lines of "if the car is not repaired within 7 days then you will reject it and expect a full refund PLUS all your consequential costs (admin fees for cancelling insurance etc)". Have you been given a loan car? You should have been.
Sounds like he's giving you the runaround and you haven't actually formally put your complaints in writing.
Don't stop talking, but put the complaint and your expected remedy in writing once you've talked to the legal assistance people and actually know your rights

rallycross

13,188 posts

242 months

Friday 26th November 2010
quotequote all
oldcynic said:
Were you sold a legal assistance helpline with your car or house insurance? Call them and run through the details. They will hopefully give you the wording along the lines of "if the car is not repaired within 7 days then you will reject it and expect a full refund PLUS all your consequential costs (admin fees for cancelling insurance etc)". Have you been given a loan car? You should have been.
Sounds like he's giving you the runaround and you haven't actually formally put your complaints in writing.
Don't stop talking, but put the complaint and your expected remedy in writing once you've talked to the legal assistance people and actually know your rights
See my post above, if the guy wont help any further, then none of the above makes any difference, he's not going to suddenly turn round and say ok here's all your money back. Its a long process to actually make it happen.

DCS01

350 posts

187 months

Friday 26th November 2010
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Depending on your area, try the local radio station and see if they have a consumer parogram. In Bed's/Buck's and Hert's there is BBC three counties and they are realy good at this sort of thing.