What is max HP you really want?
Discussion
Ignore cost,what the neighbours think ,financial limits and sped limits. You are have a house in Germany convenient to uncrowded autobahns,easy access to a dozen racetracks.
I was thinking about this because we are now awash in cars with 800-900 hp, exotics with over 1000. Not just exotics- think of a Dodge Challenger with 707 hp, ustangs and Corvettes with over 800 and so on,EVs of course can be more.
I personally peaked in 2006 with a delimited BMW M6 at 536 BHP. 20 years ago and highest top speed of anything I age owned.
Now there are cars with 0-60 times under 3 seconds and the performance climbs seem unlimited. Nothing I own or want can match that kind of performance.
I read about these amazing new developments and it seems to me I have never had the skills adequate to properly access this level of capability so these cars leave me a bit indifferent.
So, in my theoretical example , where does your ideal HP level assuming proper handling and design of the car? Mine is about 400HP. Ignoring all the practical stuff where would you want to be?
I was thinking about this because we are now awash in cars with 800-900 hp, exotics with over 1000. Not just exotics- think of a Dodge Challenger with 707 hp, ustangs and Corvettes with over 800 and so on,EVs of course can be more.
I personally peaked in 2006 with a delimited BMW M6 at 536 BHP. 20 years ago and highest top speed of anything I age owned.
Now there are cars with 0-60 times under 3 seconds and the performance climbs seem unlimited. Nothing I own or want can match that kind of performance.
I read about these amazing new developments and it seems to me I have never had the skills adequate to properly access this level of capability so these cars leave me a bit indifferent.
So, in my theoretical example , where does your ideal HP level assuming proper handling and design of the car? Mine is about 400HP. Ignoring all the practical stuff where would you want to be?
A car that s good on the autobahn does not make a good track car. For autobahn smashing, something German with 4-doors, a low roof, at least 8-cylinders, and 600bhp is the way to go. Such things are s
te on track though. GT Porsche s these days, whilst track monsters are so ridiculously capable that you have to be going at least 7 tenths around the ring to actually have any fun. And very few real people have the capability to do that.
In your imaginary scenario you re probably best off with an old 3-series track slag (320 bhp) that you tow there with your RS6 (635bhp). And a TDI Combivan Syncro at home for people/junk hauling.
te on track though. GT Porsche s these days, whilst track monsters are so ridiculously capable that you have to be going at least 7 tenths around the ring to actually have any fun. And very few real people have the capability to do that.In your imaginary scenario you re probably best off with an old 3-series track slag (320 bhp) that you tow there with your RS6 (635bhp). And a TDI Combivan Syncro at home for people/junk hauling.
Edited by Cristio Nasser on Saturday 15th August 05:17
In all honesty, it's a bit like saying which music is the best, or who was the best painter. There are so many variables based upon individual choices, wants and needs. It's why you'll often find those with collections having a slice of everything. Light, raw, lower BHP; heavy, big boot, big bhp, crazy conversions way above factory figures etc, etc.
My Westfield pre-lit for example was around 140 bhp and was as quick on twisty B roads and many A roads as many would ever need. No shopping or passengers preferably.
Numerous Volvos from the late 90's era were great with 280 to 300+, but were mostly all about the punch down slip roads etc and being able to fill them with people and stuff from B&Q.
The 290bhp Cupra was a great all-rounder with an element of surprise. Lovely DSG, too.
The Kei pickup vans I owned offered up death at every turn, so 30bhp was more than enough.
My Saab turbo converted Datsun was great fun because it was unexpected and light. Maybe a daily when younger, most certainly not when older.
All my Mk1 MX5s under 150 bhp were massive fun almost all of the time and could keep up with higher BHP figures on well-suited roads. The turbo version I had was around 180 bhp and pretty much perfected the package. Summer fun only for me.
My friends 700+ bhp Merc was crazy fast, but you only got to use it 5% of the time you were in it.
The Brabus Smart we had was only around 110 bhp, but it made you smile almost all of the time and could turn round on your driveway. The dual-clutch / flappy paddle setup was great, too.
It could end up being a long list to be honest...
The world is also very different now depending where you live. Having recently been fined for 25 mph in a 20 zone on a near-deserted road you could land a plane on (did you ever think we would see 20 limits on A roads?!) I'm happy to plod around in a Kia diesel and mess about with a few older cars as a hobby. Temptation in something which is fun and easy to exploit, now runs the risk of seriously impacting your life, so BHP is probably the least important thing for me now.
I'd go one step further and suggest I don't find any "modern" cars very interesting at all.
So, daily use BHP ? Anything, really. If it can pull up hills and keep up with flow, that will do. Manual, auto, sub 100 bhp etc, I couldn't care less.
Hobby related, anything and everything older still goes, but I'll never make or want anything faster than it was when it left the factory and certainly wouldn't avoid something because there was a model with a bigger engine available etc.
My Westfield pre-lit for example was around 140 bhp and was as quick on twisty B roads and many A roads as many would ever need. No shopping or passengers preferably.
Numerous Volvos from the late 90's era were great with 280 to 300+, but were mostly all about the punch down slip roads etc and being able to fill them with people and stuff from B&Q.
The 290bhp Cupra was a great all-rounder with an element of surprise. Lovely DSG, too.
The Kei pickup vans I owned offered up death at every turn, so 30bhp was more than enough.
My Saab turbo converted Datsun was great fun because it was unexpected and light. Maybe a daily when younger, most certainly not when older.
All my Mk1 MX5s under 150 bhp were massive fun almost all of the time and could keep up with higher BHP figures on well-suited roads. The turbo version I had was around 180 bhp and pretty much perfected the package. Summer fun only for me.
My friends 700+ bhp Merc was crazy fast, but you only got to use it 5% of the time you were in it.
The Brabus Smart we had was only around 110 bhp, but it made you smile almost all of the time and could turn round on your driveway. The dual-clutch / flappy paddle setup was great, too.
It could end up being a long list to be honest...
The world is also very different now depending where you live. Having recently been fined for 25 mph in a 20 zone on a near-deserted road you could land a plane on (did you ever think we would see 20 limits on A roads?!) I'm happy to plod around in a Kia diesel and mess about with a few older cars as a hobby. Temptation in something which is fun and easy to exploit, now runs the risk of seriously impacting your life, so BHP is probably the least important thing for me now.
I'd go one step further and suggest I don't find any "modern" cars very interesting at all.
So, daily use BHP ? Anything, really. If it can pull up hills and keep up with flow, that will do. Manual, auto, sub 100 bhp etc, I couldn't care less.
Hobby related, anything and everything older still goes, but I'll never make or want anything faster than it was when it left the factory and certainly wouldn't avoid something because there was a model with a bigger engine available etc.
I think I peaked at around 600bhp in my car history, which didn't feel too much - although it was rare I could exploit it.
Having briefly seen the sunny side of 200mph, it's not something I yearn to do again, it was just a moment, which was fine.
I'm also very comfortable at 400bhp and would say that's where I'm happiest. I have a 911 with this and it feels quick enough and is very comfortable on a long cruise.
Having briefly seen the sunny side of 200mph, it's not something I yearn to do again, it was just a moment, which was fine.
I'm also very comfortable at 400bhp and would say that's where I'm happiest. I have a 911 with this and it feels quick enough and is very comfortable on a long cruise.
"What is max HP you really want" as much as I would feel safe to use on the road.
Do you need a 1000bhp car, probably not but do you want one...absolutely yes.
The most powerful car I've driven and own has 320bhp, not a lot by modern standards but its a bit quicker that most things on the road, it has plenty of power in reserve to safely overtake traffic which is all I need.
But having a high power high performance car is one thing knowing how to properly drive it and control it is another discussion altogether.
Do you need a 1000bhp car, probably not but do you want one...absolutely yes.
The most powerful car I've driven and own has 320bhp, not a lot by modern standards but its a bit quicker that most things on the road, it has plenty of power in reserve to safely overtake traffic which is all I need.
But having a high power high performance car is one thing knowing how to properly drive it and control it is another discussion altogether.
Autobahns are the last place I'd want to spend a lot of time driving. Tracks don't particularly interest me.
My GRY has all the power I need for general roads. That's about 260 bhp. I have more powerful cars but I don't use the power to go fast. What I enjoy with the power is the relaxed nature of the drive that it provides.
Thing is, what use is power if the rest of the car can't exploit it, which is why something like the Yaris or an older hot hatch can be far quicker point to point than a luxury saloon with twice the power.
My GRY has all the power I need for general roads. That's about 260 bhp. I have more powerful cars but I don't use the power to go fast. What I enjoy with the power is the relaxed nature of the drive that it provides.
Thing is, what use is power if the rest of the car can't exploit it, which is why something like the Yaris or an older hot hatch can be far quicker point to point than a luxury saloon with twice the power.
With modern cars you can have a 1000hp and adjustable suspension so a car can be jack of all trades within reason.
I wouldn't want an 800kg car for Autobahn blasts so id sacrifice some weight and track ability for a comfortable ride and ballistic acceleration as that's what I'd be doing more often.
I wouldn't want an 800kg car for Autobahn blasts so id sacrifice some weight and track ability for a comfortable ride and ballistic acceleration as that's what I'd be doing more often.
kambites said:
For me, 200bhp/tonne always feels like a sweet spot for road cars. IMO more than that feels pointless at best and can actually detract from the driving experience at worst.
i didn't know the bhp/tonne of mine, but just checked and my daily is 130 bhp/tonne and is more that adequate for what it is (5 series estate). My fun car is 280 bhp/tonne and yes it's quick, but not ludicrously so. I often get asked if I'd like a quicker version and I don't...but it doesn't feel OTT. Edited by kambites on Saturday 15th August 07:14
WH16 said:
I'd go for 200bhp/ton too for real-world or track use. Much more than that and you are rarely actually using peak power very often, so it becomes largely irrelevant, it's either being held back by your right foot or the electronics.
I think there's room for a bit more. My car's 210-215bhp/ton and it's very quick, but another 50bhp or so would only be a good thingWife owned a 996 turbo x50 which had been
Mapped to 1.4 bar boost. Produced about 700hp according to the dyno chart. Weight was what 3500lb so 1.5t.
Too much for use on the road, in the wet it would spin up if the tc was off at 70mph.
I have an 2016 M135i, circa 320bhp. I’ve never once thought that it could do with more power, suspension, LSD yes.
I reckon 200bhp per tonne or thereabouts must be about right for fast road use.
Mapped to 1.4 bar boost. Produced about 700hp according to the dyno chart. Weight was what 3500lb so 1.5t.
Too much for use on the road, in the wet it would spin up if the tc was off at 70mph.
I have an 2016 M135i, circa 320bhp. I’ve never once thought that it could do with more power, suspension, LSD yes.
I reckon 200bhp per tonne or thereabouts must be about right for fast road use.
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