Diesel classics
Poll: Diesel classics
Total Members Polled: 144
Discussion
I may be wrong but as good if not great as some diesel cars have been, with restrictions and negativity surrounding them now I can't see there being many classics if other models of the same car had great petrol engines. Cars that didn't have good or any petrol option I can imagine being a different thing.
My daily car is a Saab 9-3 1.9ttid and I think it's a great car, pleasantly quick and amazing on fuel but I'm well aware that being a diesel I will likely keep it until it dies rather than sell it on because as a diesel it's not really cherished in the same way as petrol models. Regardless of how good the engine is in reality.
My daily car is a Saab 9-3 1.9ttid and I think it's a great car, pleasantly quick and amazing on fuel but I'm well aware that being a diesel I will likely keep it until it dies rather than sell it on because as a diesel it's not really cherished in the same way as petrol models. Regardless of how good the engine is in reality.
njw1 said:
Don't see why not, I can see cars like the e46 330d and e39 530d becoming quite sought after in years to come and that said I wouldn't turn my nose up at an e34 525 tds.
And how many series Land Rovers have diesel engines...?
Fair point on 4x4s (and buses), but there's not much high days joy in a '90s repmobile.And how many series Land Rovers have diesel engines...?
Alex_225 said:
I may be wrong but as good if not great as some diesel cars have been, with restrictions and negativity surrounding them now I can't see there being many classics if other models of the same car had great petrol engines. Cars that didn't have good or any petrol option I can imagine being a different thing.
My daily car is a Saab 9-3 1.9ttid and I think it's a great car, pleasantly quick and amazing on fuel but I'm well aware that being a diesel I will likely keep it until it dies rather than sell it on because as a diesel it's not really cherished in the same way as petrol models. Regardless of how good the engine is in reality.
Good point. I think the mk1 Fabia vRS PD130, is a good example of that.My daily car is a Saab 9-3 1.9ttid and I think it's a great car, pleasantly quick and amazing on fuel but I'm well aware that being a diesel I will likely keep it until it dies rather than sell it on because as a diesel it's not really cherished in the same way as petrol models. Regardless of how good the engine is in reality.
I can't imagine, unless you're going to use it as a daily, why anyone would choose an E46 330d over the equivalent 3.0 M54. As parts become scarcer, the relative rarity is going to make them harder to keep going too.
With the obvious exceptions, like the Land Rover and similar, I'd say not. Pre-turbo old diesels are generally pretty crap compared to petrol engines of the same era, and the low mileages you'd want in a classic so that the rest of it won't be worn out won't have done a turbo diesel any favours. There's probably a period from around 2010 to 2020 where they were competitive to drive up to a point before diesel development basically stopped, but I'm not yet at the point where I can think of cars from that period as classics.
With the obvious exceptions, like the Land Rover and similar, I'd say not. Pre-turbo old diesels are generally pretty crap compared to petrol engines of the same era, and the low mileages you'd want in a classic so that the rest of it won't be worn out won't have done a turbo diesel any favours. There's probably a period from around 2010 to 2020 where they were competitive to drive up to a point before diesel development basically stopped, but I'm not yet at the point where I can think of cars from that period as classics.
Of the two options, I've voted no, but there is some additional clarification on that.
- I think diesel road cars are unappealing in the first place. They've become much better, especially with the very good modern autos and DCTs that largely eliminate the power delivery characteristics I dislike, but unfortunately it's a bit of a catch 22 that those more modern powertrains also come with a huge amount of emissions control kit etc in a Canute-esque effort to clean up the exhaust, but which seems like it is both prone to failure and expensive to fix.
- the primary purpose of a diesel in a passenger car is fuel economy, which I think is a far lower priority in a classic "hobby" car.
- diesels in classic vans, 4x4s, trucks, or other "utility" applications are perfectly appropriate and nothing wrong with that.
- they can still be classics in the sense of as they get rare, and you don't see them around, it's interesting. Show me an old Merc diesel 300D and yes, I'm glad to see one being kept going, but I wouldn't necessarily "want" one. I feel the same way about a lot of classics I don't "like" but will still pay attention if I see one around.
So it's a no for me in terms of particularly wanting one as a classic, but I think to some people they can be.
- I think diesel road cars are unappealing in the first place. They've become much better, especially with the very good modern autos and DCTs that largely eliminate the power delivery characteristics I dislike, but unfortunately it's a bit of a catch 22 that those more modern powertrains also come with a huge amount of emissions control kit etc in a Canute-esque effort to clean up the exhaust, but which seems like it is both prone to failure and expensive to fix.
- the primary purpose of a diesel in a passenger car is fuel economy, which I think is a far lower priority in a classic "hobby" car.
- diesels in classic vans, 4x4s, trucks, or other "utility" applications are perfectly appropriate and nothing wrong with that.
- they can still be classics in the sense of as they get rare, and you don't see them around, it's interesting. Show me an old Merc diesel 300D and yes, I'm glad to see one being kept going, but I wouldn't necessarily "want" one. I feel the same way about a lot of classics I don't "like" but will still pay attention if I see one around.
So it's a no for me in terms of particularly wanting one as a classic, but I think to some people they can be.
E63eeeeee... said:
I can't imagine, unless you're going to use it as a daily, why anyone would choose an E46 330d over the equivalent 3.0 M54. As parts become scarcer, the relative rarity is going to make them harder to keep going too.
My uncle has two very rare British cars from a manufacturer that went bust 71 years ago and were 100 percent made in house and he manages to keep them going.A modern-ish BMW, if you want to, that had an engine fitted to millions of cars is not going to present much problem, we now have the internet for information and parts location.You can get various bits for Europe, some big car communities that favour certain models.
I think the petrol versions will, in the main be the ones kept but diesels will survive, thing is, diesel really wasnt a thing until the 90s. I remember a guy at North West Water getting a 405 diesel, I was sceptical as had driven a Sierra 2.3DL which was a turd of a thing, 405 was great, can see why people liked them after gutless 1.6/1.8 petrols you had to rev the nads off.
It didn't really get into its stride as the default choice until the 2000s, then the compulsory company choice a bit later and then boom, a few years later diesels are dead. So its a comparatively short and much more recent period to pick from for diesels than petrols. Diesels pre say 1993 were pretty rare and generally terrible non turbo things for tightwads, haulage companies and those with access to red diesel...
Some may become classics because of what they are, say a 535D as it was such a landmark model (in diesel terms, not putting it up there with the GT40 etc) some may make it despite being diesel because they have been looked after.
Main thing will be getting fuel, that will be the clincher in 30 years I reckon, no company will keep fuel stations open for the odd classic car driver if everyone else is using electric cars.
Like them or dislike them Diesel cars are as much a part a part of out motoring history.
Diesel was a response to a social appetite.
Much like 60’s chrome & American stylings on European cars was a response to increasing affluence, 70’s compact cars responded to the oil crises & increasing environmentally responsible attitudes, 80’s hot hatches to affluence & individualism;
So Diesel cars are a symbol of the increasing awareness (however misguided in this case) of the impact of climate change.
One day someone will display a Golf GTD at a car show with a scrappage scheme leaflet, a copy of Al Gore’s ‘Inconvenient Truth’ on DVD & iPod & a copy of Harry Potter. All early 2000’s cultural ephemera.
Diesel was a response to a social appetite.
Much like 60’s chrome & American stylings on European cars was a response to increasing affluence, 70’s compact cars responded to the oil crises & increasing environmentally responsible attitudes, 80’s hot hatches to affluence & individualism;
So Diesel cars are a symbol of the increasing awareness (however misguided in this case) of the impact of climate change.
One day someone will display a Golf GTD at a car show with a scrappage scheme leaflet, a copy of Al Gore’s ‘Inconvenient Truth’ on DVD & iPod & a copy of Harry Potter. All early 2000’s cultural ephemera.
njw1 said:
Don't see why not, I can see cars like the e46 330d and e39 530d becoming quite sought after in years to come and that said I wouldn't turn my nose up at an e34 525 tds.
And how many series Land Rovers have diesel engines...?
The old TDS engines, whilst not hugely torquey in modern terms, were really a watershed moment in engine speed (redline at 5200 rpm!) and the fact that above 2000 rpm they really do not sound diesely. And how many series Land Rovers have diesel engines...?
Amusingly when googling to check the redline, I see that JLR classic parts sell M51 engine parts for the Range Rover P38. Wonder how that all works! And if you have a BMW with the M51, I wonder if it is cheaper to go to BMW or JLR for parts
Edited by Triumph Man on Wednesday 26th March 09:47
I ran a Golf 2 GTD for a while. It looked like any other Golf with its steel wheels and even had a tow hitch but after some inexpensive tweaks was as quick as a standard 8V GTI on the quarter-mile at GTI International. I'm not sure I'd want it now or whether it was distinctive enough to be dubbed a 'classic' but it was fun at the time.
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