Insurance: Change of occupation

Insurance: Change of occupation

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Discussion

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
Insurance never fails to astonish me, and recently was no exception.

My son is a new driver on his first policy. He was a full-time student when this started and had a part-time job. I set up his insurance in line with this which included commuting. A few months into the policy, college finished and he got a full time job. It’s an office job. As this was a significant change in occupation, I thought we should notify his insurance as I could imagine a problem should he claim (I know many wouldn’t bother). I was thinking that going from student/part time worker to a full time office job might even mean a bit of a refund as I thought students were seen as quite high risk and he’s not gone on to be an oil rig worker or footballer.

To my horror, their response was that will be another £750. He’s about a third of the way into the policy and that’s about a third of what the original 12 month policy cost.

We decided the most cost effective thing to do was to find another insurer and cancel this one. It’s worked out OK in the end as the refund was pro-rata without penalties, but it was a ridiculous situation.

I know insurers have areas they specialise in etc. but for such a simple change I cannot fathom the price increase – are insurers tools that blunt for assessing changes like this? It seemed this change generated a whole new quote. Or are they just making it another way to make money by hoping people will just pay?

Dingu

4,373 posts

37 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
It’s simply that they wouldn’t have been competitive if he had the office job when the policy was originally set up.

You can view it as a simple change, so is changing car or any other detail in principal, it doesn’t alter that insurance is a statistics game. As such things like this can arise.

JuanCarlosFandango

8,311 posts

78 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
I've had things like this. I can't believe it's all statistics as there's no way that simple change mid term blows the risk profile out of the water to that extent. My theory is they offer very competitive prices on comparison sites to get you in on the hope you'll renew it year after year with increases. Any changes mid-term throw up a chance to hammer you as well.

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I've had things like this. I can't believe it's all statistics as there's no way that simple change mid term blows the risk profile out of the water to that extent. My theory is they offer very competitive prices on comparison sites to get you in on the hope you'll renew it year after year with increases. Any changes mid-term throw up a chance to hammer you as well.
That's my conclusion too. In my case they lose out too as we cancelled the policy a third of the way in and got a refund.

@dingu I appreciate it's change but I don't think comparable to changing car as that brings in far more risk variables (price of car, engine size, insurance group etc.). There's simply no way that change of occupation increased the risk by the amount they wanted to increase the premium. Particularly as I read that students are high risk for insurance and he'd changed away from that.

Shooter McGavin

7,617 posts

151 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
Was this a 'computer says no' type issue, or was a human involved? For risk of sounding all 'Karen', did you ask to speak to the manager?

Back in my days of motor underwriting (30yrs ago now) this would have been viewed as a downgrade in risk and there would possibly be a return of premium, because student was rated higher than office worker and SDP& Commuting was our boggo standard usage. At most you would have been charged a small admin fee.

That was in the good old days though, it seems not that you only need to sneeze and they want to charge you for something. All part of the race to the bottom on winning new business with low initial quotes, they claw it back elsewhere.

LastPoster

2,724 posts

190 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
If you want a proper scummy insurance company policy then how about this.

On renewal I had to call the insurer to make a change as my marital status had gone from Married to Widowed. 25% uplift frown

Back to the comparison sites I went.

I get it’s all risk based and algorithms etc so for a new policy they use wider data but for an individual as an existing client I can’t believe the risk changes that much

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
Shooter McGavin said:
Was this a 'computer says no' type issue, or was a human involved? For risk of sounding all 'Karen', did you ask to speak to the manager?
It was a human on online chat. Definitely not AI and the person was quite articulate and seemed to understand why I was questioning the price hike. That said, she couldn't budge and it seemed she was simply running it through a quote machine.

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
LastPoster said:
If you want a proper scummy insurance company policy then how about this.

On renewal I had to call the insurer to make a change as my marital status had gone from Married to Widowed. 25% uplift frown

Back to the comparison sites I went.

I get it’s all risk based and algorithms etc so for a new policy they use wider data but for an individual as an existing client I can’t believe the risk changes that much
Sounds very similar - bonkers!

POIDH

1,050 posts

72 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
I too have experience of similar uplift for very minor changes.
I do think it's all about the algorithm which drives profit, not the algorithm which drives risk pricing.

garypotter

1,722 posts

157 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
Shooter McGavin said:
Was this a 'computer says no' type issue, or was a human involved? For risk of sounding all 'Karen', did you ask to speak to the manager?

Back in my days of motor underwriting (30yrs ago now) this would have been viewed as a downgrade in risk and there would possibly be a return of premium, because student was rated higher than office worker and SDP& Commuting was our boggo standard usage. At most you would have been charged a small admin fee.

That was in the good old days though, it seems not that you only need to sneeze and they want to charge you for something. All part of the race to the bottom on winning new business with low initial quotes, they claw it back elsewhere.
Crikey Shooter, thise days are long gone, industry now run by actuaries and algorithm's.....

Sebring440

2,328 posts

103 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
ro250 said:
In my case they lose out too.
In what way are they "losing out"?

They haven't "lost the business", the clearly don't want the business. It's a win-win for them.


Gericho

574 posts

10 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
ro250 said:
Insurance never fails to astonish me,

(I know many wouldn’t bother).

To my horror, their response was that will be another £750.
A story with a start, middle and ending. All the lessons to be learned are right there.

Mr Tidy

24,390 posts

134 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
It does seem crazy, but nothing surprises me any more!

When my policy was due for renewal in 2011 I called them to change my occupation from full-time insurance claims adjuster to part-time delivery driver (online food orders) as I had taken early retirement. They said they couldn't offer me cover. mad

So it was off to the meerkats again where it didn't seem to be a problem.

I know its all driven by algorithms, but someone has to set the parameters, and they seem to have some strange logic!

richhead

1,670 posts

18 months

Monday 7th October
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
It does seem crazy, but nothing surprises me any more!

When my policy was due for renewal in 2011 I called them to change my occupation from full-time insurance claims adjuster to part-time delivery driver (online food orders) as I had taken early retirement. They said they couldn't offer me cover. mad

So it was off to the meerkats again where it didn't seem to be a problem.

I know its all driven by algorithms, but someone has to set the parameters, and they seem to have some strange logic!
that is very different, as you would need business insurance not just commuting, it a whole different thing.

TwigtheWonderkid

44,707 posts

157 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
When my policy was due for renewal in 2011 I called them to change my occupation from full-time insurance claims adjuster to part-time delivery driver (online food orders) as I had taken early retirement. They said they couldn't offer me cover. mad
It's awful isn't it. I've had this a couple ofl times. I changed cars from a Nissan Micra to a highly modified Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI and they said they couldn't cover me mad

Then the same thing happened when I moved from the Scottish Highlands to Stepney Green, London E1. mad

They just don't seem to care.

MustangGT

12,311 posts

287 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
It does seem crazy, but nothing surprises me any more!

When my policy was due for renewal in 2011 I called them to change my occupation from full-time insurance claims adjuster to part-time delivery driver (online food orders) as I had taken early retirement. They said they couldn't offer me cover. mad

So it was off to the meerkats again where it didn't seem to be a problem.

I know its all driven by algorithms, but someone has to set the parameters, and they seem to have some strange logic!
Delivery drivers require very specific insurance, not just SDP&C. Some companies offer it , others do not. Not strange in the slightest.

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Gericho said:
ro250 said:
Insurance never fails to astonish me,

(I know many wouldn’t bother).

To my horror, their response was that will be another £750.
A story with a start, middle and ending. All the lessons to be learned are right there.
Is your suggestion I shouldn't have told them? Then should my son have an accident I expect they would refuse to pay out as I believe they ask you to confirm things like job etc. as part of a claim. If I'm paying over £2k to insure him I want the policy to actually pay out if needed.

ro250

Original Poster:

2,930 posts

64 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Sebring440 said:
ro250 said:
In my case they lose out too.
In what way are they "losing out"?

They haven't "lost the business", the clearly don't want the business. It's a win-win for them.
I get that but it implies they have saved themselves a huge risk by not keeping my son insured with them, which is my point on the whole thing as they haven't. Plus they had to refund us £1,500.

TwigtheWonderkid

44,707 posts

157 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
ro250 said:
Sebring440 said:
ro250 said:
In my case they lose out too.
In what way are they "losing out"?

They haven't "lost the business", the clearly don't want the business. It's a win-win for them.
I get that but it implies they have saved themselves a huge risk by not keeping my son insured with them, which is my point on the whole thing as they haven't. Plus they had to refund us £1,500.
I think you'll need to wait for the year to pan out before you can make that assertion. If he has a big claim in that time, they were right. All young drivers are a huge risk. Some are huger than others.

Mr Tidy

24,390 posts

134 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
Mr Tidy said:
It does seem crazy, but nothing surprises me any more!

When my policy was due for renewal in 2011 I called them to change my occupation from full-time insurance claims adjuster to part-time delivery driver (online food orders) as I had taken early retirement. They said they couldn't offer me cover. mad

So it was off to the meerkats again where it didn't seem to be a problem.

I know its all driven by algorithms, but someone has to set the parameters, and they seem to have some strange logic!
Delivery drivers require very specific insurance, not just SDP&C. Some companies offer it , others do not. Not strange in the slightest.
What's the difference?

I drove my car to my place of work, so commuting.

Drove the company van insured by my employer, then when I was done I got in my car to drive home from work also commuting.

Exactly what I did in my previous office job, except that included business use!